Kiper Mock v4.0

[NewEra]

Sure thing, I wasnt aiming all of that at you specifically, as much a refuting the James Harrison comparison I have seen made too often.

 

I agree with most of this post (as I believe I do most of your posts in general).

 

However, the only point I disagree on is that he was "never asked to stop the run in college". Yes he was. He was a OLB/DE. That's as much his job as it is to rush the passer. And even if he was supposed to be rushing the passer, when the Offense runs RIGHT AT YOU, as Nebraska did over and over, you have to make a play or get off the field. It's not that they ran by him as he was taking a route to the QB. They ran at him and he couldnt get off his blocks (made by a TE, btw).

 

After watching his play, I dont care if he was 275lbs, he cant stop the run and therefore should not be a #3 overall pick. In my opinion, of course.

Touche. He is not adept at taking blocks head on at this time. He IS great at outside containment. While he isn't the one making the tackles, he's the one keeping the play flow directed at the other LBs. It's an ability lots of OLBs do not exhibit because they dont have the speed or athleticism.

[NewEra]

Wow so he looked good in a class room setting against other seniors that didn't even include potentially the best players in the draft the juniors? Everybody is a big fan of saying don't look at the numbers and expert opinions look at the game tape. Since this guy isn't a one year wonder he should have PLENTY of game tape displaying his ability to cover and BY FAR most importantly defend the run which is also BY FAR our biggest problem.

 

It sounds like I am down on this kid but I'm really not. Heat of the argument and all. He could be a bust or he could be great. What I DO KNOW is that he doesn't address our biggest need which is defending the run. 8 200+ yard games. A pass rushing specialist, until someone shows me game tape otherwise, will stand un-utilized on the sidelines while we get gashed for 4.8 yards a pop 35.7 times a game.

Actually, our biggest need is a stud QB. No OLB addresses that need. Say what you want, it's the truth. While our run defense is our biggest problem defensively, sacking and disrupting the opposing QB is right there behind it. Followed by the inability to cover TEs on 3rd down. All three need to be addressed and can't be addressed with one pick. As I continue to say, we have 7 more picks and FA, plus next year to help fix the defense.

 

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. We're picking #3 in the first round. With that pick, it's not asking too much for that guy to have the upside of being a perennial all pro and potential Hall of Famer.

 

Not just a consistent tackler or getting QB pressures. We're looking for a gamer. A guy that will not only give "OOOOOO" tackles but someone who will separate the ball from the QB and/or runningback.

 

This does not describe Von Miller. At his little size the best we probably ever get is a good to pretty good OLB.

Thats your opinion. IMO, that does describe Von Miller. Many "experts" agree that he has pro bowl written all over him.

[1billsfan]

I am of the opinion that every time you post you hurt your arguements....while others that are against Von Miller actually make a realistic debate. You dont because your posts are ridiculous.

 

"not just a consistant tackler or getting QB pressures" Um.....SEVENTEEN SACKS AND TWENTY ONE BEHIND THE LINE TACKLES....okkkaaay

"a guy that will separate the ball from the QB or running back" PERHAPS YOU ARE MISSING HIS FORCED FUMBLES?

"little size" FOR THE LAST FRIGGEN TIME.....VON MILLER IS NOT SMALL THERE ARE OTHER OLB's IN THE NFL THAT ARE HIS SIZE...he is just smaller then Quinn....FOR CHRIST SAKE WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS CRAP

"Looking for a gamer" IS YOUR ONLY CRITERIA HERE SOMEONE WHO IS A GOOD RUN STOPPER?....Von Miller is a game changer...a guy you have to be accountable for.....was getting DOUBLE TEAMED in college.....MADE PLAYS

 

I am calling it right here right now......Von Miller will be a Pro Bowl OLB inside of TWO YEARS....he may well end up being the rookie defensive player of the year.

 

 

 

There are hundreds of college players who've had wonderful statistics in college, yet who's game did not translate to NFL success. You know that.

 

As for his size, I'll post this again...

 

http://long-island.newsday.com/topics/Texas

 

 

Dude is smaller than a WR! If he's still 246 then Jackson is 266...LOL This guy clearly didn't keep that added weight on.

 

I feel good however, since there's no way the Buddy Nix rolls the dice on Aaron Maybin 2.0. The experts can beg and plead all they want for the Bills to take the "soft and cuddly" guy yet again, but that's not happening. After seeing that picture, this guy's officially off my big board...LOL

[K-9]

There are hundreds of college players who've had wonderful statistics in college, yet who's game did not translate to NFL success. You know that.

 

As for his size, I'll post this again...

 

http://long-island.newsday.com/topics/Texas

 

Dude is smaller than a WR! If he's still 246 then Jackson is 266...LOL This guy clearly didn't keep that added weight on.

I feel good however, since there's no way the Buddy Nix rolls the dice on Aaron Maybin 2.0. The experts can beg and plead all they want for the Bills to take the "soft and cuddly" guy yet again, but that's not happening. After seeing that picture, this guy's officially off my big board...LOL

 

All that from a photograph? How far apart were they when the pic was snapped? What degree of angle is Miller's body turned from the camera?

 

Even in the distorted picture you use to support your argument, Jackson appears to be the 2.5 inches taller than Miller that he is, while Miller appears about 15 pounds thicker, which he is.

 

Keep digging, #1.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited April 7, 2011 by K-9

[1B4IDie]

All that from a photograph? How far apart were they when the pic was snapped? What degree of angle is Miller's body turned from the camera?

 

Even in the distorted picture you use to support your argument, Jackson appears to be the 2.5 inches taller than Miller that he is, while Miller appears about 15 pounds thicker, which he is.

 

Keep digging, #1.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Wow the denial is amazing.

[K-9]

Wow the denial is amazing.

 

Denial of what exactly? That Miller's weight can be ascertained by a photograph? That he doesn't weigh more than Vince Jackson's listed playing weight of 230 lbs? That photographs distort images?

 

No denial here at all. Not about anything.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[John from Riverside]

All that from a photograph? How far apart were they when the pic was snapped? What degree of angle is Miller's body turned from the camera?

 

Even in the distorted picture you use to support your argument, Jackson appears to be the 2.5 inches taller than Miller that he is, while Miller appears about 15 pounds thicker, which he is.

 

Keep digging, #1.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

More like digging a hole.....

 

- I dont even know why I am bothering with this because this arguement is so pathetic.

 

- That is a good sized reciever.....is it a problem that in a suit and tie Von Miller doesn't dwarf him? Oh wait...because that is because Robert Quinn WOULD dwarf him.....

 

- I sat there and stared at that picture for 5 minutes trying to figure out the point (I really shouldn't have) and I dont get it.....we dont know how close they are to the camera....Von Miller's body is at a angle and is slouching....the WR is standing upright and we have no idea on what level their feet are standing on

 

- All in all a pathetic excuse for an argument

 

 

I PROMISE you that Von Miller is on the Bills big board......they might have Darius and Newton ahead of him.....but I bet he is right there.

[1B4IDie]

More like digging a hole.....

 

- I dont even know why I am bothering with this because this arguement is so pathetic.

 

- That is a good sized reciever.....is it a problem that in a suit and tie Von Miller doesn't dwarf him? Oh wait...because that is because Robert Quinn WOULD dwarf him.....

 

- I sat there and stared at that picture for 5 minutes trying to figure out the point (I really shouldn't have) and I dont get it.....we dont know how close they are to the camera....Von Miller's body is at a angle and is slouching....the WR is standing upright and we have no idea on what level their feet are standing on

 

- All in all a pathetic excuse for an argument

 

 

I PROMISE you that Von Miller is on the Bills big board......they might have Darius and Newton ahead of him.....but I bet he is right there.

Let me get this straight. Your two eyes look at the picture and see a big guy and a little guy. The Little guy being a player that for a fact played college ball at 237ish for years then bulled up to 246 for the draft is now standing next to a WR that we know is 6-5 230.

We're going to refuse what our eyes tell us about the picture and create a conspiracy of camera angles and tailoring. In order to deny that it's not likely that Von Miller has kept on all the weight he put on for the combine.

 

Which, BTW isn't the worst thing in the world.

 

Just call it like you see it. Von Miller looks to be closer to his college playing weight than his combine weight, it's no big whoop.

 

(unless of course you may think there is something to the "size nazis" point . . .)

Edited April 8, 2011 by Why So Serious?

[I hate the Bills !]

There are so many mocks and so many opinions out there. The Bills need a good solid pick at #1 Miller, Dareus, or Peterson Even A.J. Green are the picks at 3, if they trade down to 5,6,7, I say bring in Cam Jordan.

[1billsfan]

Let me get this straight. Your two eyes look at the picture and see a big guy and a little guy. The Little guy being a player that for a fact played college ball at 237ish for years then bulled up to 246 for the draft is now standing next to a WR that we know is 6-5 230.

We're going to refuse what are eyes tell us about the picture and create a conspiracy of camera angles and tailoring. In order to deny that it's not likely that Von Miller has kept on all the weight he put on for the combine.

 

Which, BTW isn't the worst thing in the world.

 

Just call it like you see it. Von Miller looks to be closer to his college playing weight than his combine weight, it's no big whoop.

 

(unless of course you may think there is something to the "size nazis" point . . .)

 

There's clearly a contingent of Von Miller fans who would dispute his being back to the 230 weight. If he were standing on a scale and reading it for themselves, they'd say that the scale was faulty.

 

Vincent Jackson looks like Von Miller's daddy in that picture. I've provided a ton of links to try and make them see the light that Miller will never live up to the #3 pick. You'd think that after the Aaron Maybin fiasco they'd be more clear headed about going down this road again.

 

Patriot fans are begging their team to throw enough picks out so that they can draft Robert Quinn. That's because they can still remember what real big tough defensive OLBs look like since they had one in Willie McGinest. I seriously think that a lot of Bills fans can no longer recognize a player from a pretender. Von Miller will be the OLB version of Paul Posluszny. Robert Quinn will be an NFL monster like McGinnest, Peppers, Freeney, Suggs. They can get a thousand experts to tell me that Von Miller is a top ten prospect and I'll still be laughing at them.

Edited April 8, 2011 by 1billsfan

[PDaDdy]

Actually, our biggest need is a stud QB. No OLB addresses that need. Say what you want, it's the truth. While our run defense is our biggest problem defensively, sacking and disrupting the opposing QB is right there behind it. Followed by the inability to cover TEs on 3rd down. All three need to be addressed and can't be addressed with one pick. As I continue to say, we have 7 more picks and FA, plus next year to help fix the defense.

 

 

Thats your opinion. IMO, that does describe Von Miller. Many "experts" agree that he has pro bowl written all over him.

 

1)On point #1, NO! I have asked this question again and again. I take no answer as an admission of contrition. How many great QBs have won a super bowl without a top 10 defense or a defense that at the very least played like one in the post season???? (Can't think of any and nobody else can either) How many average QBs have won a super bowl due to a top 10 defense? (Several including the likes of Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Eli Manning, etc)

 

2) We absolutely can get one player that can help with the run, rush the passer and cover a TE. It's called a talented OLB. Predraft is all speculation but a guy that could potentially help in ALL those areas is Robert Quinn. Some will make a case for Von Miller but I haven't seen any game tape on the guy to suggest that he can cover the run. In fact all I have seen of him looks like lowlights not highlights.

 

Please don't respond with the tired response of "gailiey said he could defense the run in the senior bowl". Game tape please! Other than some dreamers in this forum nobody is calling this guy a run defender.

Edited April 8, 2011 by PDaDdy

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

I'm good with this. Question? Who do these guys do multiple mock drafts? Possible answer: So they can all say they were "right"?

 

PTR

 

 

You nailed it, my android friend.

[Turbosrrgood]

Not a fan of Miller. At all. But I wont jump off the roof considering we get Wilson in the 2nd, and depending on the rest of the draft.

 

I'd rather have DL in the 1st though as well.

 

+1, we need bigger stronger defensive linemen more than we need LB's. Maybe one of each in the first 2 rounds (DL, then LB).

 

 

1)On point #1, NO! I have asked this question again and I take no answer as an admission of defeat. How many great QBs have won a super bowl without a top 10 defense or a defense that at the very least played like one in the post season???? (Can't think of any and nobody else can either) How many average QBs have won a super bowl due to a top 10 defense? (Several including the likes of Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler, Eli Manning, etc)

 

2) We absolutely can get a 1 player that can help with the run, rush the passer and cover a TE. It's called a talented OLB. Predraft is all speculation but a guy that could potentially help in ALL those areas is Robert Quinn. Some will make a case for Von Miller but I haven't seen any game tape on the guy to suggest otherwise. In fact all I have seen of him look like lowlights not highlights. Please don't respond with the tired response of "gailiey said he could defense the run in the senior bowl". Game tape please! Nobody is calling this guy a run defender.

 

Agreed, and I like your mock draft...

[Hanoverbills]

Patrick Willis is 6' 1" 240 lbs. He is smaller than Miller and plays middle linebacker and is considered by many to be one of the best young linebackers in football. You can look in the NFL and see alot good linebackers that are at the 240 lb range. Briggs from Chicago 240 lbs, Dumervil 248 lbs, Bart Scott 240 lbs, Vilma 230 lbs and Jon Beason 237 lbs. I think Miller will be a good pick. This is a good draft for DL. Draft linebacker first and draft dl in second and later. Mayock likes Miller, and I think he knows what he talking about. Millers coach at Tesxas A&M compares him to Derrick Thomas.

[PDaDdy]

Patrick Willis is 6' 1" 240 lbs. He is smaller than Miller and plays middle linebacker and is considered by many to be one of the best young linebackers in football. You can look in the NFL and see alot good linebackers that are at the 240 lb range. Briggs from Chicago 240 lbs, Dumervil 248 lbs, Bart Scott 240 lbs, Vilma 230 lbs and Jon Beason 237 lbs. I think Miller will be a good pick. This is a good draft for DL. Draft linebacker first and draft dl in second and later. Mayock likes Miller, and I think he knows what he talking about. Millers coach at Tesxas A&M compares him to Derrick Thomas.

 

 

We need to quit mixing positions and schemes!! We are looking for a 3-4 OLB!!! Get it through your heads. People keep using examples of 4-3 ILB as examples of small guys getting it done. Apples and oranges. MAN...this never stops.

Edited April 8, 2011 by PDaDdy

[DanInUticaTampa]

Patrick Willis is 6' 1" 240 lbs. He is smaller than Miller and plays middle linebacker and is considered by many to be one of the best young linebackers in football. You can look in the NFL and see alot good linebackers that are at the 240 lb range. Briggs from Chicago 240 lbs, Dumervil 248 lbs, Bart Scott 240 lbs, Vilma 230 lbs and Jon Beason 237 lbs. I think Miller will be a good pick. This is a good draft for DL. Draft linebacker first and draft dl in second and later. Mayock likes Miller, and I think he knows what he talking about. Millers coach at Tesxas A&M compares him to Derrick Thomas.

 

Patrick willis is too small to be a LB in the nfl. GaWd!

[Turbosrrgood]

Patrick Willis is 6' 1" 240 lbs. He is smaller than Miller and plays middle linebacker and is considered by many to be one of the best young linebackers in football. You can look in the NFL and see alot good linebackers that are at the 240 lb range. Briggs from Chicago 240 lbs, Dumervil 248 lbs, Bart Scott 240 lbs, Vilma 230 lbs and Jon Beason 237 lbs. I think Miller will be a good pick. This is a good draft for DL. Draft linebacker first and draft dl in second and later. Mayock likes Miller, and I think he knows what he talking about. Millers coach at Tesxas A&M compares him to Derrick Thomas.

 

A 3-4 OLB needs to be built like a DE, because thats basically what they are. Willis is a 4-3 MLB. That's like saying a guy is big enough to play OT because he is bigger than the WR...one thing has nothing to do with the other. Dumerville (a DE) is far shorter and stockier, actually not one of the guys you mentioned is actually a 3-4 OLB and they are all shorter. Also, if he plays anything like Vilma...PASS.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[John from Riverside]

We need to quit mixing positions and schemes!! We are looking for a 3-4 OLB!!! Get it through your heads. People keep using examples of 4-3 ILB as examples of small guys getting it done. Apples and oranges. MAN...this never stops.

 

I agree....using middle linebackers as references hurts the arguement.

 

A 3-4 OLB needs to be built like a DE, because thats basically what they are. Willis is a 4-3 MLB. That's like saying a guy is big enough to play OT because he is bigger than the WR...one thing has nothing to do with the other. Dumerville (a DE) is far shorter and stockier, actually not one of the guys you mentioned is actually a 3-4 OLB and they are all shorter. Also, if he plays anything like Vilma...PASS.

 

Uh....No Vilma is a excellent player. Didn't he get hurt or something like that? Sometimes LB's are not the same after certain injuries.....but at one point Vilma was considered one of the top LB's in the league.

[KD in CA]

Folk's like Kiper keep updating, so the people who actually PAY for this crap feel like they got their monies worth.

Exactly

 

 

We are talking about 20-22 year old kids. They ALL bulk up and get stronger in the pros. At 246 lbs he's going to get bigger and stronger, regardless of if he HAS to or not.

I'm pretty sure this was the same line of bullsh-- we heard two years ago about Maybin.

[PDaDdy]

A 3-4 OLB needs to be built like a DE, because thats basically what they are. Willis is a 4-3 MLB. That's like saying a guy is big enough to play OT because he is bigger than the WR...one thing has nothing to do with the other. Dumerville (a DE) is far shorter and stockier, actually not one of the guys you mentioned is actually a 3-4 OLB and they are all shorter. Also, if he plays anything like Vilma...PASS.

 

Somebody gets it! Nice