RTW2012 Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Von Miller will be a major bust. His little body "speed" OLB game doesn't translate to the NFL and he over pursues on running plays. I've literally been laughing at the Kiper "expert" types this draft season. I think they're all on some seriously heavy dope. Von Miller- Height: 6ft 2 5/8in; Weight: 246; 40-Time: 4.53 Clay Matthews (pre-draft measurements)- Height 6ft 3in; Weight: 240; 40-Time: 4.62 Matthews has since bulked up to 255; there's no reason Miller can't do the same.
1B4IDie Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 (edited) you might be right, and I wouldnt lose 1 min of sleep over him at #3 either. just seems a BIT of a reach. In a year with no organized team activities and no mini-camps, possibly shortened training camp, who do you think is going to show up ready Haynsworthian, Marcell Dareus and Nick Fairely or Cam Jordan? If the Bills went #3 Cam Jordan, #34 Stephan Paea, I would sleep like a baby. If the Bills went #7 Cam Jordan, #34 Stephan Paea and #45 Kelvin Sheppard I'd think I was still dreaming. Von Miller- Height: 6ft 2 5/8in; Weight: 246; 40-Time: 4.53 Clay Matthews (pre-draft measurements)- Height 6ft 3in; Weight: 240; 40-Time: 4.62 Matthews has since bulked up to 255; there's no reason Miller can't do the same. What was Maybin's measurements at the combine? Are the Buffalo Bills located in Buffalo, NY or Green Bay, WI? Why would you draft a player at #3 overall that needs to bulk up in order to play in the NFL. Wouldn't stand to reason you can draft an NFL size player at #3 overall? How is drafting a guy that needs to bulk up, not a reach? It seems like the definition of a reach to me. Edited April 6, 2011 by Why So Serious?
Johnny Hammersticks Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 In the end....Von Miller is NOT a bad pick - Productive pretty much his whole college career - Fills a need - So what if he isn't a stout run stopper....his freakish speed will allow him to make plays - Instant improves pass rush - Can actually run with a tight end...which is a huge weakness for us - MAKES PLAYS This kid is not maybin....and I dont think he is even done growing......Maybin was drafted based on potential....Miller would be drafted based on his production. He DOMINATED at the senior bowl....flat out dominated Not saying he can't do it, but I have very rarely seen Von Miller drop into coverage. Playing the "joker" position at A&M, he simply was not required to do so. Mostly, he would fake dropping into coverage to confuse the QB's read of the coverage scheme.
1B4IDie Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 I think he'll be there at 10. But if that's who they like and they want to trade back and get him and he's gone, JJ Watt is a nice consolation prize. Especially for the 2nd rounder plus change they would pick up. I'm on board with that.
dgrid Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 In a year with no organized team activities and no mini-camps, possibly shortened training camp, who do you think is going to show up ready Haynsworthian, Marcell Dareus and Nick Fairely or Cam Jordan? I'd guess Dareus would be ready as well tho. he's played DE in a 3-4, but assume he'll be headed to denver. I'd take dareus over Jordan. and that's a good pt to factor in this yr- readiness.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 6, 2011 Author Posted April 6, 2011 FYI...McShay's latest Mock has Miller @ #3 and Ponder @ #34. Personally, I want no part of Ponder in Buffalo....Too injury prone and not enough arm for RWS.
RTW2012 Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 What was Maybin's measurements at the combine? Are the Buffalo Bills located in Buffalo, NY or Green Bay, WI? Why would you draft a player at #3 overall that needs to bulk up in order to play in the NFL. Wouldn't stand to reason you can draft an NFL size player at #3 overall? How is drafting a guy that needs to bulk up, not a reach? It seems like the definition of a reach to me. A) I'm discussing Miller, not Maybin. B) I'm responding to 1billsfan contention that Miller has a "little body." I don't think he needs to bulk up, but using Matthews as an example of someone with similar body type showing how he gained some weight as a pro. More than likely he'll gain 5-10 pounds as a pro; I doubt he would play heavier than 255, which is only 9 pounds more than he is now. C) I have absolutely no clue what your Green Bay comment is supposed to mean.
1billsfan Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 A) I'm discussing Miller, not Maybin. B) I'm responding to 1billsfan contention that Miller has a "little body." I don't think he needs to bulk up, but using Matthews as an example of someone with similar body type showing how he gained some weight as a pro. More than likely he'll gain 5-10 pounds as a pro; I doubt he would play heavier than 255, which is only 9 pounds more than he is now. C) I have absolutely no clue what your Green Bay comment is supposed to mean. Just because they're the same body size coming out of college doesn't mean that they play the same way. I see Miller over pursuing plays and getting pushed around way too often to suggest that he's the next Clay Matthews.
1B4IDie Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 (edited) A) I'm discussing Miller, not Maybin. B) I'm responding to 1billsfan contention that Miller has a "little body." I don't think he needs to bulk up, but using Matthews as an example of someone with similar body type showing how he gained some weight as a pro. More than likely he'll gain 5-10 pounds as a pro; I doubt he would play heavier than 255, which is only 9 pounds more than he is now. C) I have absolutely no clue what your Green Bay comment is supposed to mean. The first questions were a sarcastic way of demonstrating that the Buffalo Bills do not have a track record with successfully bulking up their 1st round OLB picks. It behooves everyone in the organization to get Maybin to an NFL playing weight and yes it comes down to the individual but come on man someone can't sneak some Muscle Milk into his Happy Meal. These are the questions I struggle with: Why would you draft a player at #3 overall that needs to bulk up in order to play in the NFL? Wouldn't it stand to reason you can draft an NFL size player at #3 overall? How is drafting a guy that needs to bulk up, not a reach? It seems like the definition of a reach to me. I wish someone could explain this to me. (Besides talking about 17 sacks in college or running real fast. Great if this were a draft for NCAA I'd think about Miller that high but its a draft for the NFL.) Von Miller isn't as highly regarded as Aaron Curry was regarded when he came out. I just don't get the fascination. Edited April 6, 2011 by Why So Serious?
1billsfan Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 Does anyone here think that the Steelers or Patriots would draft Von Miller over Robert Quinn?
John from Riverside Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 I'm sorry, but the stuff I've seen on youtube has scared the livin' crap out of me in regards to Miller. He looks and plays small even among the college players. I foresee a guy who will make a few plays based on his speed, but will never become a sack artist and will more often than not get caught up in the wash on running plays. A hot and cold kind of a guy. If I had to put a bust percentage on Von Miller taken as the 3rd overall player in the draft, then I would say 70%. If the Bills were picking him as a player in the 10-20 range then that bust factor would go down to 40%, because I do think he'll become a decent OLB. BTW, who do you think the Steelers and Patriots would take if given that choice? - I am not understanding the "a few plays" this guys has not made a few plays based on his speed he has made A LOT OF PLAYS based on his speed.....and an lot of them behind the line of scrimmage. Also.....I see a linebacker who uses good form on his tackles....he understands leverage. - I personally think that people are just scared of him because of what a horrible bust Maybin is (and know you didn't say it...but I am willing to bet it fits into your evaluation where you admit it or not jmo.) but the fact is these two players are NOT the same......Maybin was a one year wonder who got the start because someone got suspended....Von Miller has put together multiple years of strong play....both sacks and behind the line tackles. - Lets keep in mind that we do in fact play a 3-4 defense....and DOWN LINEMEN are supposed to be setting edges on this defense....linbackers are supposed to be scraping....pass rushing.....and covering tight ends. - Quinn and Von Miller are both gonna be good pros with different strengths....and I really dont think the Pats would have any problems takign a guy like Von Miller because they have big uglies in their down linemen......I MIGHT ALSO add that the patriots defense is not that great.....they have an offense that keeps them off the field and scores lots of points. The patriots dont win because of their defense. Does anyone here think that the Steelers or Patriots would draft Von Miller over Robert Quinn? I know the packers would because they drafted a guy with essentially the same measurables. That packers defense seems to be playing pretty well
1billsfan Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 - I am not understanding the "a few plays" this guys has not made a few plays based on his speed he has made A LOT OF PLAYS based on his speed.....and an lot of them behind the line of scrimmage. Also.....I see a linebacker who uses good form on his tackles....he understands leverage. - I personally think that people are just scared of him because of what a horrible bust Maybin is (and know you didn't say it...but I am willing to bet it fits into your evaluation where you admit it or not jmo.) but the fact is these two players are NOT the same......Maybin was a one year wonder who got the start because someone got suspended....Von Miller has put together multiple years of strong play....both sacks and behind the line tackles. - Lets keep in mind that we do in fact play a 3-4 defense....and DOWN LINEMEN are supposed to be setting edges on this defense....linbackers are supposed to be scraping....pass rushing.....and covering tight ends. - Quinn and Von Miller are both gonna be good pros with different strengths....and I really dont think the Pats would have any problems takign a guy like Von Miller because they have big uglies in their down linemen......I MIGHT ALSO add that the patriots defense is not that great.....they have an offense that keeps them off the field and scores lots of points. The patriots dont win because of their defense. I know the packers would because they drafted a guy with essentially the same measurables. That packers defense seems to be playing pretty well I feel like Tom Cruise in "A Few Good Men"...LOL I want an answer!!!! I don't care about Green Bay, do you think the Patriots or Steelers would draft Von Miller over Robert Quinn...
NewEra Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 If these "experts" were asked to predict who the Patriots and Steelers would pick if given the choice between Robert Quinn and Von Miller, I guarantee you they'd both predict Quinn would be the pick. It's almost as if they're begging the Bills to pick another bust. After reading you posts for the last month or so 1billsfan, I've come to realize that you must be the smartest bills fan in the world. You seem to know so much. Please please, keep enlightening us with your knowledge. Maybe if you say the same thing over and over and over and over enough times, buddy nix will actually read it and become enlightened as well. At that point, there will be no way he could possibly choose Miller. 1billsfan to the rescue.
DreReed83 Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 I'm good with this. Question? Who do these guys do multiple mock drafts? Possible answer: So they can all say they were "right"? PTR Or because it's their job?
NewEra Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 I'm sorry, but the stuff I've seen on youtube has scared the livin' crap out of me in regards to Miller. He looks and plays small even among the college players. I foresee a guy who will make a few plays based on his speed, but will never become a sack artist and will more often than not get caught up in the wash on running plays. A hot and cold kind of a guy. If I had to put a bust percentage on Von Miller taken as the 3rd overall player in the draft, then I would say 70%. If the Bills were picking him as a player in the 10-20 range then that bust factor would go down to 40%, because I do think he'll become a decent OLB. BTW, who do you think the Steelers and Patriots would take if given that choice? What is this bust factor % you speak of? Did the pats and steelers come up with that? What do you think the pats and steelers think about the bust factor %? Do you guarantee that they have miller at least a 70% bust at 3? If you dont guarantee it, I find it hard to believe.
K-9 Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 I feel like Tom Cruise in "A Few Good Men"...LOL I want an answer!!!! I don't care about Green Bay, do you think the Patriots or Steelers would draft Von Miller over Robert Quinn... Right now, as both teams are presently constructed, I'd say yes; both teams may indeed draft Miller over Quinn. Quinn, if drafted by a 34 team, is going to be asked to play a position he's never played before as an OLB. It may seem like a small thing to most but learning to play with your hand off the ground when that's not what you're used to can be a difficult thing. I don't see the Steelers or Patriots drafting Quinn as a DE for their fronts. I think it's reasonable to assume that, given the fact that Quinn has never played the position, that neither the Steelers or Pats* would care to invest the time in developing him into an OLB when the best at his position and Butkus award winner who's played it his entire career is there for the taking. Now go ahead and come back at me with your scoffing and LOLing and those funny little emoticons, but you asked for an answer and I gave you legit reasons. Not silly conjecture. GO BILLS!!!
NewEra Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 In a year with no organized team activities and no mini-camps, possibly shortened training camp, who do you think is going to show up ready Haynsworthian, Marcell Dareus and Nick Fairely or Cam Jordan? If the Bills went #3 Cam Jordan, #34 Stephan Paea, I would sleep like a baby. If the Bills went #7 Cam Jordan, #34 Stephan Paea and #45 Kelvin Sheppard I'd think I was still dreaming. What was Maybin's measurements at the combine? Are the Buffalo Bills located in Buffalo, NY or Green Bay, WI? Why would you draft a player at #3 overall that needs to bulk up in order to play in the NFL. Wouldn't stand to reason you can draft an NFL size player at #3 overall? How is drafting a guy that needs to bulk up, not a reach? It seems like the definition of a reach to me. We are talking about 20-22 year old kids. They ALL bulk up and get stronger in the pros. At 246 lbs he's going to get bigger and stronger, regardless of if he HAS to or not. How do you feel about the bills drafting Fairley? Just because they're the same body size coming out of college doesn't mean that they play the same way. I see Miller over pursuing plays and getting pushed around way too often to suggest that he's the next Clay Matthews. And what did you see Clay Matthews do in college? Nothing. Keep trolling.
White Linen Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 If this is our pick get ready for a guy that appears to be able to get to the QB, but is atrocious against the run.
NewEra Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 I feel like Tom Cruise in "A Few Good Men"...LOL I want an answer!!!! I don't care about Green Bay, do you think the Patriots or Steelers would draft Von Miller over Robert Quinn... Yes, I think every team in the league would draft Von Miller over Robert Quinn. Are you happy now? Good, Now stop whining like a little kid Right now, as both teams are presently constructed, I'd say yes; both teams may indeed draft Miller over Quinn. Quinn, if drafted by a 34 team, is going to be asked to play a position he's never played before as an OLB. It may seem like a small thing to most but learning to play with your hand off the ground when that's not what you're used to can be a difficult thing. I don't see the Steelers or Patriots drafting Quinn as a DE for their fronts. I think it's reasonable to assume that, given the fact that Quinn has never played the position, that neither the Steelers or Pats* would care to invest the time in developing him into an OLB when the best at his position and Butkus award winner who's played it his entire career is there for the taking. Now go ahead and come back at me with your scoffing and LOLing and those funny little emoticons, but you asked for an answer and I gave you legit reasons. Not silly conjecture. GO BILLS!!! Isnt it obvious to you K-9, that we MUST draft a player to play OLB that has size, but has never actually played OLB, then to draft an actual OLB, that needs to put on some weight, as every player does in the NFL. The steelers and pats told us, through the 1billsfan ESP, that Quinn>miller. Duh...
1B4IDie Posted April 6, 2011 Posted April 6, 2011 (edited) We are talking about 20-22 year old kids. They ALL bulk up and get stronger in the pros. At 246 lbs he's going to get bigger and stronger, regardless of if he HAS to or not. How do you feel about the bills drafting Fairley? I question this, as an absolute. There is no reason to believe that with 100% certainty that Von Miller can add 10 pounds, keep then keep his pass rushing speed at that weight. We're talking about the #3 overall pick in the NFL draft. Why risk it? You can get a LB latter in the draft. There is a reason why actual NFL teams don't taken LBs that high. Its easier to find 255 pound guys that are athletic, than it is to find 300 pound guys that are athletic. Fairely and Dareaus worry me but If I'm going to roll the dice, I'd rather go big or go home. Then go little. Edited April 6, 2011 by Why So Serious?
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