Captain Hindsight Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Nobody is right in that situation but people have to take responsibility for their actions. For her shes got to drink less or not at all and those guys have to handle a drunk girl a little better, walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I would not have hit her but I'm not going to say he was out of line. When you act like that, you may get what's coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Do you really believe the girl was acting as a bully? She was stupid drunk. 1) Bully clearly provoking or asking for a fight 2) Bully is not drunk 3) Bully was the aggressor 4) Bully could have defended himself I never said the girl did not need to be stopped ... how shew was stopped is very much at issue. Yes she was "swinging" and yes her behavior was inappropriate. All I've ever said was that she could have been backed away from the situation with means far less violent. An assumption we all have made. Alas, it did not happen this way. One asks why. Surely there must have been attempts at quelling the shameful c-word . But if they were all drunk bumbling knuckle dragging baffoons (as an earlier poster suggested), then apox on the lot. Agreed. And beyond the matter of male vs female- it was just overkill, as you were saying. The amount of damage she could do was limited to "annoyance" where his punch could do very real damage. Ignore and walk on, or find a way to de-escalate the situation. Escalating it so much that she physically is DONE, just isn't a real option in my head. I suppose the difference is the kid would continue to have to, and has had to put up with the bullying of those other kids for years. Walking past the girl would end a passing situation forever. I also venture by both the previous reasoning, as well as my guess that a group of kids could inflict far more damage than a sloppy drunk girl- that the damage potential is far higher in the schoolyard bullying than it is with random sloppy drunk girl being obnoxious. You're kidding yourself if you think any drunk, male or female, acts this way in a bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) An assumption we all have made. Alas, it did not happen this way. One asks why. Surely there must have been attempts at quelling the shameful c-word . But if they were all drunk bumbling knuckle dragging baffoons (as an earlier poster suggested), then apox on the lot. You're kidding yourself if you think any drunk, male or female, acts this way in a bubble. Nope - they don't but if you think that the best solution to a sloppy drunk stranger you'll never see again being (an albeit huge) nuisance is to put a fist in their jaw, then I think there's something wrong there too. The only person she seemed to be a real danger to was herself. I'm not excusing her actions, but in the grand scheme, I doubt she had any potential to impact that guys life beyond that 5 second window for him to walk away- if he so chose. By hauling off on her, he had escalated the situation quite a bit. Heaven forbid he does real damage to her- then they both get to deal with the repercussions. To insert some speculation..... Truly the odds heavily point to she is in one of two situations - this is totally out of the ordinary and she was already going to regret it --or-- this is normal behavior and short of permanent damage she's not going to change the behavior with or without the punch. At that point, what have you really accomplished by throwing it? Congrats, you dropped someone for being drunk and dumb. You rolled the dice on your own future and their well being, for no real upside, no real damage even prevented... Edited March 31, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest three3 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Nope - they don't but if you think that the best solution to a sloppy drunk being (an albeit huge) nuisance is to put a fist in their jaw, then I think there's something wrong there too. The only person she seemed to be a real danger to was herself. I'm not excusing her actions, but in the grand scheme, I doubt she had any potential to impact that guys life beyond that 5 second window for him to walk away- if he so chose. By hauling off on her, he had escalated the situation quite a bit. Heaven forbid he does real damage to her- then they both get to deal with the repercussions. To insert some speculation..... Truly the odds heavily point to she is in one of two situations - this is totally out of the ordinary and she was already going to regret it --or-- this is normal behavior and short of permanent damage she's not going to change the behavior with or without the punch. At that point, what have you really accomplished by throwing it? Congrats, you dropped someone for being drunk and dumb. You rolled the dice on your own future and their well being, for no real upside, no real damage even prevented... actually, i could see her repeating that type of behavior if he did not punch her. the chances of her repeating that behavior have now been drastically reduced (i'd say to zero) due to the punch. she learned her lesson the hard way. Edited March 31, 2011 by three3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Fact is, if she had a penis we wouldn't be talking about the fact that her dozens of punches were "mainly harmless". You're kidding yourself if you say this isn't about gender. If some 5'5 150 pound guy was doing what she was and sone 6'6 250lb guy ended his idiocy with one punch we'd either be giving the big guy kudos or more likely not talking about this at all. Edited March 31, 2011 by stevestojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Nope - they don't but if you think that the best solution to a sloppy drunk stranger you'll never see again being (an albeit huge) nuisance is to put a fist in their jaw, then I think there's something wrong there too. The only person she seemed to be a real danger to was herself. You said it yourself. SHE was a danger to HERSELF. This is HER fault. Not that guy's. We got a pretty good cross section of humanity right there. She messed with about 10 people, and the last one knocked her out. That means about 90% of us would do the right thing and let her walk away, as you suggest. But she kept pushing and pushing until she found that less-than-honorable 10% she was looking for. Lesson learned for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Fact is, if she had a penis we wouldn't be talking about the fact that her dozens of punches were "mainly harmless". You're kidding yourself if you say this isn't about gender. If some 5'5 150 pound guy was doing what she was and sone 6'6 250lb guy ended his idiocy with one punch we'd either be giving the big guy kudos or more likely not talking about this at all. I disagree .... though not strongly as I understand where you are coming from. Hypothetically a drunk guy might have been more able to do harm even if he was "smaller." The point I will continue to stick to is that the girl could have been taken away form the situation far less violently. Two people could have easily taken her arms and walked her away from the situation (the guy who hit her was strong enough to do this on his own.) At some point in this discussion I would hope that people see this is as much about self respect as it is about respect for the girl. The old .... treat others as you would want to be treated. We all seem to agree that the girl was "wrong" in her actions and state of drunkeness. This does not make her fair game for an over-reaction. "Stumble" for a minute in her shoes .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I disagree .... though not strongly as I understand where you are coming from. Hypothetically a drunk guy might have been more able to do harm even if he was "smaller." The point I will continue to stick to is that the girl could have been taken away form the situation far less violently. Two people could have easily taken her arms and walked her away from the situation (the guy who hit her was strong enough to do this on his own.) At some point in this discussion I would hope that people see this is as much about self respect as it is about respect for the girl. The old .... treat others as you would want to be treated. We all seem to agree that the girl was "wrong" in her actions and state of drunkeness. This does not make her fair game for an over-reaction. "Stumble" for a minute in her shoes .... Agreed. Id also add all the guy did was open himself to all kinds of issues when her head bounces off the ground. Odds are she is more or less ok the next day but should she have real damage- right or wrong in his actions- it's going to be way more of a headache in his life than pretty much any of his other options would cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB27 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 By hauling off on her, he had escalated the situation quite a bit. I am not in any way supporting what he did. AGAIN, I AM NOT IN ANY WAY ATTEMPTING TO DEFEND HIS ACTIONS. I would argue he did the exact opposite. He completely de-escalated the situation. It was over when he hit her. BTW, she looked kind of hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) I am not in any way supporting what he did. AGAIN, I AM NOT IN ANY WAY ATTEMPTING TO DEFEND HIS ACTIONS. I would argue he did the exact opposite. He completely de-escalated the situation. It was over when he hit her. BTW, she looked kind of hot. I guess for me, the worst case was someone gets punched in the jaw, and goes down. The only person that was happening to was her, as I didn't see her putting anyone on the ground. He brought it to that highest point of damage and volatility. It went from nuisance to possible serious damage based on his choice to react that way. Definitely not excusing her nonsense, but I see his swing as a more explosive action than her hitting people- even if his was reactionary. Not going to totally kill the guy over it but throwing the morals of the situation of a man hitting a woman aside, it's hard to argue he made a good life choice in response to her harassment. Frankly he shouldn't be shocked if he ends up in cuffs, or fighting a friend who happens to show up. To me that's all escalation. You have to look at the possible outcomes and a number of them are much worse for both him and her once he swings. Edited March 31, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB27 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Not going to totally kill the guy over it but throwing the morals of the situation of a man hitting a woman aside, it's hard to argue he made a good life choice in response to her harassment. Frankly he shouldn't be shocked if he ends up in cuffs, or fighting a friend who happens to show up. To me that's all escalation. You have to look at the possible outcomes and a number of them are much worse for both him and her once he swings. I would argue they both should end up in cuffs. He would probably have a decent case for self defense though as she did throw the first punch (if you could even call those punches). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I disagree .... though not strongly as I understand where you are coming from. Hypothetically a drunk guy might have been more able to do harm even if he was "smaller." The point I will continue to stick to is that the girl could have been taken away form the situation far less violently. Two people could have easily taken her arms and walked her away from the situation (the guy who hit her was strong enough to do this on his own.) At some point in this discussion I would hope that people see this is as much about self respect as it is about respect for the girl. The old .... treat others as you would want to be treated. We all seem to agree that the girl was "wrong" in her actions and state of drunkeness. This does not make her fair game for an over-reaction. "Stumble" for a minute in her shoes .... Walked her away to what? 100 yards away? A mile away? A locked room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Walked her away to what? 100 yards away? A mile away? A locked room? Away from the crowd where she might have had a chance to cool off. It does seem odd that she had no friends with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Away from the crowd where she might have had a chance to cool off. It does seem odd that she had no friends with her. Not if thats how she behaves on a regular basis. May have no friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Away from the crowd where she might have had a chance to cool off. It does seem odd that she had no friends with her. That seemed to be what was happening for the first couple minutes when she was attacking other people, but she didn't seem interested in cooling off and if you keep attacking random people, sooner or later you're going to run across someone who doesn't have the patience for such nonsense. As for the concept that 'girl punches don't count', I can't buy that one. If an adult under the age of 60 is throwing repeated punches at your head, it's going to eventually hurt and you can't blame someone for doing what is necessary to put a stop to it. Did the guy do more than was necessary based on her size? Sure, but let's give him the same benefit of the doubt about the impact of alcohol on his decision making that everyone seems to want to give her. As other have said, this was probably not the first time but almost certainly the last time this girl ever acts in this manner, so think of the punch as a public service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I'm not one who makes pompous absolute statements that you never hit a woman, because sometimes it's warranted. IMO this wasn't one of those times. Who knows why she was acting that way, but some of those guys seemed to be egging her on and he could have given her a good hard shove and put her on her ass. That guy's a big kitty, and the fact that he was so proud of himself for laying out a chick proves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Nope - they don't but if you think that the best solution to a sloppy drunk stranger you'll never see again being (an albeit huge) nuisance is to put a fist in their jaw, then I think there's something wrong there too. The only person she seemed to be a real danger to was herself. I'm not excusing her actions, but in the grand scheme, I doubt she had any potential to impact that guys life beyond that 5 second window for him to walk away- if he so chose. By hauling off on her, he had escalated the situation quite a bit. Heaven forbid he does real damage to her- then they both get to deal with the repercussions. To insert some speculation..... Truly the odds heavily point to she is in one of two situations - this is totally out of the ordinary and she was already going to regret it --or-- this is normal behavior and short of permanent damage she's not going to change the behavior with or without the punch. At that point, what have you really accomplished by throwing it? Congrats, you dropped someone for being drunk and dumb. You rolled the dice on your own future and their well being, for no real upside, no real damage even prevented... Did the situation "escalate?" There's NO WAY that this was "abnormal" behavior for her. NOT A CHANCE. Even when she's sober, she's MORE THAN LIKELY someone who resorts to violence, threatens people with violence, throws things, etc etc. Her and everyone she'll cross paths with later in life now has this guy to thank for teaching her that that kind of behavior is UNACCEPTABLE. There comes a time when someone has to do the unpopular, unsavory thing. Up to that point society had passed the buck on her behavior, snarled "someone should teach her a lesson" under its breath and never did anything to 'correct' this bull in a china shop, this person who's endangering herself AND being a complete nuisance to everyone around her. I WILL, however, concede that the same lesson could have been taught with an open palm to the cheek. A fist to the chin? That was just dumb on his part. Can he afford the hospital bill for a broken jaw? The missing teeth? The potential concussion? If there was a misstep in this scenario, it was his execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Did the situation "escalate?" There's NO WAY that this was "abnormal" behavior for her. NOT A CHANCE. Even when she's sober, she's MORE THAN LIKELY someone who resorts to violence, threatens people with violence, throws things, etc etc. Her and everyone she'll cross paths with later in life now has this guy to thank for teaching her that that kind of behavior is UNACCEPTABLE. There comes a time when someone has to do the unpopular, unsavory thing. Up to that point society had passed the buck on her behavior, snarled "someone should teach her a lesson" under its breath and never did anything to 'correct' this bull in a china shop, this person who's endangering herself AND being a complete nuisance to everyone around her. I WILL, however, concede that the same lesson could have been taught with an open palm to the cheek. A fist to the chin? That was just dumb on his part. Can he afford the hospital bill for a broken jaw? The missing teeth? The potential concussion? If there was a misstep in this scenario, it was his execution. There is no way for you to know whether this is "normal" behavior for her. That is unless you actually know her personally, do you? It is not for this guy to "correct" her behavior. Does he need to protect himself or avoid her drunken stupidity... absolutely. As I said in an earlier post, you might develop some empathy for her if you took one second to think about being in her shoes in that situation. (yeah I get it that you would not behave like her but just hypothetically) Wouldn't you want someone to apply a better level of response or "corrective action?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 There is no way for you to know whether this is "normal" behavior for her. That is unless you actually know her personally, do you? It is not for this guy to "correct" her behavior. Does he need to protect himself or avoid her drunken stupidity... absolutely. As I said in an earlier post, you might develop some empathy for her if you took one second to think about being in her shoes in that situation. (yeah I get it that you would not behave like her but just hypothetically) Wouldn't you want someone to apply a better level of response or "corrective action?" If this was a video of some pencil necked 22-year-old d.bag acting a fool in the RWS parking lot, would you be making the same arguments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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