Economics for progressives part 4

[Nanker]

. Should be mandatory viewing in HS.

[birdog1960]

. Should be mandatory viewing in HS.

his big sh7t eating grin is really annoying. it's like he really believes he alone formulated these ideas. this roped me into listening to a bit of his droning about the good ole days of robber barons. boy, i really wish my kids could have worked 16 hour shifts in sweat shops or that i could have worked as a domestic for some unscrupulous businessman.

[KD in CA]

his big sh7t eating grin is really annoying. it's like he really believes he alone formulated these ideas. this roped me into listening to a bit of his droning about the good ole days of robber barons. boy, i really wish my kids could have worked 16 hour shifts in sweat shops or that i could have worked as a domestic for some unscrupulous businessman.

 

 

Of course, such practices were outlawed decades ago and we have literally thousands of laws on the books protecting workers' rights, not to mention an entire government agency whose role is to sue private employers based on nothing but the word of any disgruntled employee. But that never seems to stop those who don't understand how businesses actually operate from predicating their modern economic arguments on stereotypes that are as old as slavery.

 

 

p.s. No, i didn't even click on the link. I'm sure it's just as stupid as the crap lybob has been posting.

[....lybob]

Of course, such practices were outlawed decades ago and we have literally thousands of laws on the books protecting workers' rights, not to mention an entire government agency whose role is to sue private employers based on nothing but the word of any disgruntled employee. But that never seems to stop those who don't understand how businesses actually operate from predicating their modern economic arguments on stereotypes that are as old as slavery.

 

 

p.s. No, i didn't even click on the link. I'm sure it's just as stupid as the crap lybob has been posting.

'A wedding song we played for you, the dance you simply scorned. A woeful dirge we chanted, too, but then you would not mourn.

[IDBillzFan]

boy, i really wish my kids could have worked 16 hour shifts in sweat shops or that i could have worked as a domestic for some unscrupulous businessman.

Not sure it's relevant to the conversation, but when people talk like you do, it's pretty clear you're one of those "watch the clock, can't wait for my break" kind of employee. You seem to have "Before I take the job, I have a question about the holiday schedule" written all over you.

[Bronc24]

Not sure it's relevant to the conversation, but when people talk like you do, it's pretty clear you're one of those "watch the clock, can't wait for my break" kind of employee. You seem to have "Before I take the job, I have a question about the holiday schedule" written all over you.

 

I'm always fond of "I know this will only take 5 more minutes, but it's my lunch hour." Really?

[birdog1960]

Not sure it's relevant to the conversation, but when people talk like you do, it's pretty clear you're one of those "watch the clock, can't wait for my break" kind of employee. You seem to have "Before I take the job, I have a question about the holiday schedule" written all over you.

are you clairvoyant? never worked a holiday in my life..regular 9-5 hours my entire career. and i've always been very suspicious of the senior partner where i've worked the last decade ( um, except that would be me).so i guess, no, it's not relevant.

[birdog1960]

Of course, such practices were outlawed decades ago and we have literally thousands of laws on the books protecting workers' rights, not to mention an entire government agency whose role is to sue private employers based on nothing but the word of any disgruntled employee. But that never seems to stop those who don't understand how businesses actually operate from predicating their modern economic arguments on stereotypes that are as old as slavery.

 

 

p.s. No, i didn't even click on the link. I'm sure it's just as stupid as the crap lybob has been posting.

if you had listened to his inspiring piece on the era of robber barons you would be enlightened to the fact that it was a great time economically for the common man. true to his trickle down belief foundation, he feels the barons wealth enriched everyone around them. i'm pretty sure there was child labor and sweat shops in 19th century america.

[Nanker]

his big sh7t eating grin is really annoying. it's like he really believes he alone formulated these ideas. this roped me into listening to a bit of his droning about the good ole days of robber barons. boy, i really wish my kids could have worked 16 hour shifts in sweat shops or that i could have worked as a domestic for some unscrupulous businessman.

 

So it's not that he's Jewish that has you reaching for a syringe?

[Rob's House]

if you had listened to his inspiring piece on the era of robber barons you would be enlightened to the fact that it was a great time economically for the common man. true to his trickle down belief foundation, he feels the barons wealth enriched everyone around them. i'm pretty sure there was child labor and sweat shops in 19th century america.

You should read The Myth of the Robber Barons by Burt Folsom. You may dismiss it out of hand for running counter to your preconceived notions, or you may learn something about the nature of entrepreneurialism and government subsidies.

[....lybob]

You should read The Myth of the Robber Barons by Burt Folsom. You may dismiss it out of hand for running counter to your preconceived notions, or you may learn something about the nature of entrepreneurialism and government subsidies.

Folsom makes a distinction between the industrialist that made their money by producing a better good or product and those who made their money by political patronage, I'm still waiting for the right-wing apologists on this board to make that distinction present day.

[birdog1960]

So it's not that he's Jewish that has you reaching for a syringe?

your conclusions are as sound as labillz'. i assume you've come to the conclusion that i'm antisemitic from my pointing out the power of the israel lobby in the us...pretty weak evidence. who has preconceived notions now?

[Nanker]

your conclusions are as sound as labillz'. i assume you've come to the conclusion that i'm antisemitic from my pointing out the power of the israel lobby in the us...pretty weak evidence. who has preconceived notions now?

 

Not really. You mad a vicious ad hominem attack that ranted on about things that took place more than a hundred and fifty years ago. You still angry about the Whiskey Rebellion?

[KD in CA]

if you had listened to his inspiring piece on the era of robber barons you would be enlightened to the fact that it was a great time economically for the common man. true to his trickle down belief foundation, he feels the barons wealth enriched everyone around them. i'm pretty sure there was child labor and sweat shops in 19th century america.

 

 

I'm sure there were too, but my point was 'what does that have to do with anything since presumably your children live in the 21st and not 19th century?'

 

It seemed like you were angling for an anti-business/anti-capitalism stance based on abuses from 200 years ago, which is kinda silly. Similar to the people that excuse rampant greed and corruption in modern labor unions because they served a purpose in evolving workers' rights 100 years ago. Rights which are not codified in law.

[GG]

Folsom makes a distinction between the industrialist that made their money by producing a better good or product and those who made their money by political patronage, I'm still waiting for the right-wing apologists on this board to make that distinction present day.

 

Since we're making a silly mockery of history by ignoring the conditions that drove mass immigration into the US during the industrial revolution and the migration of farmers into the cities at that time, you would be served well with this quip, "There is only one thing that is worse than being exploited, that is not being exploited at all."

 

I love the accepted progressive folklore that immigrants were/are a bunch of mindless neanderthals who can't wipe their arse without the help of the enlightened class.

Edited March 28, 2011 by GG

[birdog1960]

Since we're making a silly mockery of history by ignoring the conditions that drove mass immigration into the US during the industrial revolution and the migration of farmers into the cities at that time, you would be served well with this quip, "There is only one thing that is worse than being exploited, that is not being exploited at all."

 

I love the accepted progressive folklore that immigrants were/are a bunch of mindless neanderthals who can't wipe their arse without the help of the enlightened class.

i'm sure the 12 year olds working at sneaker plants or in the sex industry in southeast asia agree with you.

[GG]

i'm sure the 12 year olds working at sneaker plants or in the sex industry in southeast asia agree with you.

 

I think the proper comparison is not to a pampered 12 year old in a developed country, but to a 12 yr old cousin who doesn't get the job in that sweatshop.

 

The great unwashed are out of mind to the progressives, when they're unseen.

[birdog1960]

I think the proper comparison is not to a pampered 12 year old in a developed country, but to a 12 yr old cousin who doesn't get the job in that sweatshop.

 

The great unwashed are out of mind to the progressives, when they're unseen.

the OP promoted friedman as an economist that all hs kids should hear. friedman's soliliquies on youtube include one about how great an era the time of the robber barons was. this was a time when there were sweatshops and child labor in the us. these practices still exist in many asian countries. in my opinion, the presence of such practices indicates a failing of the system. if children need to work long hours making sneakers or selling their bodies (now or in the past) then clearly, not enough is trickling down to them and their families. if you accept that child labor is undesirable and unacceptable, it follows that his thinking on this economic issue is flawed.

Edited March 28, 2011 by birdog1960

[ExiledInIllinois]

the OP promoted friedman as an economist that all hs kids should hear. friedman's soliliquies on youtube include one about how great an era the time of the robber barons was. this was a time when there were sweatshops and child labor in the us. these practices still exist in many asian countries. in my opinion, the presence of such practices indicates a failing of the system. if children need to work long hours making sneakers or selling their bodies (now or in the past) then clearly, not enough is trickling down to them and their families. if you accept that child labor is undesirable and unacceptable, it follows that his thinking on this economic issue is flawed.

 

Please stop speaking Martian, many here do not understand it.

 

 

FWIW, there are still sweatshops here in the States... True, very few... Just hid very well.

[....lybob]

I think the proper comparison is not to a pampered 12 year old in a developed country, but to a 12 yr old cousin who doesn't get the job in that sweatshop.

 

The great unwashed are out of mind to the progressives, when they're unseen.

The point is, it is only external forces that keep many of these companies from using child labor, paying subsistence wages, having unsafe work conditions, or spilling their wastes into the environment. These companies are amoral looking only to maximize profit and they are totally willing to exploit their workers or to dump all their externalities into the surrounding communities. The only thing that constrains them are infrastructure needs, skill scarcity, security, and regulations and the quality of enforcement of those regulations. The reason that American and European companies use child labor, pay low wages, have less worker safety measures, and pollute more in third world countries isn't due to some hatred of brown people, it's simply because they can. If they could get away with it in the developed world they would. Which is why only a fool would unilaterally disarm.