/dev/null Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 You forgot about the sub-committee to study the environmental impact of issuing the RFP. No, I didn't forget that. My response was what happens before the Environmentalists and Unions got involved
NoSaint Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 ugh - i live in new orleans and the government had to kick people out of fema trailers at the start of the year. contrast and compare..... honestly, the stark difference in how the local population has handled these two disasters has been especially challenging for me - as someone that has dealt with coming back from a disaster. everything from the lack of looting, the speedy government response, the lack of pointing fingers....
KD in CA Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 ugh - i live in new orleans and the government had to kick people out of fema trailers at the start of the year. contrast and compare..... honestly, the stark difference in how the local population has handled these two disasters has been especially challenging for me - as someone that has dealt with coming back from a disaster. everything from the lack of looting, the speedy government response, the lack of pointing fingers.... At the start of this year?
NoSaint Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 At the start of this year? New years eve was the deadline to move out or face fines. It wasn't a ton of people - but more than a few.
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 ugh - i live in new orleans and the government had to kick people out of fema trailers at the start of the year. contrast and compare..... honestly, the stark difference in how the local population has handled these two disasters has been especially challenging for me - as someone that has dealt with coming back from a disaster. everything from the lack of looting, the speedy government response, the lack of pointing fingers.... I am sure to get Chef's ire up... With Katrina, why didn't they do what they did in 1906 after the SF Quake: "...After the earthquake, about 16,488 San Franciscans moved into 5,600 government-provided housing built in refugee camps across city parks. According to historians with The Western Neighborhoods Project, the "shacks" were built by Union carpenters for a cost of approximately $100 to $741 each, depending on size, painted green to blend in the park surroundings and rented to families at a cost of $2 to $6 per month. Once the city was rebuilt, city leaders wanted the structures removed and offered to sell the shacks to homebuyers at about $100 each, if the homeowner arranged to cart the tiny no-kitchen, no-bath shacks away. Buyers sometimes cobbled two or more shacks together to relocate them to parts of the city that weren't destroyed by the earthquake and fires..." New years eve was the deadline to move out or face fines. It wasn't a ton of people - but more than a few. See, that is the thing with people and why they are screwy... They get attached to things... Human nature... Everybody to a certain extent has that fault. They are trailers... Why didn't they just sell them to the people. Like I said above, the small rent people paid in 1906 went towards the purchase price. I am not sure if FEMA was charging a small rent... But if they did, they could have applied to a purchase and people could have been on their merry way anywhere with the trailer... Heck, wander around and hit the local KoA's... ;) I jest. What I am trying to say is that YES people are screwy... But the rules in play today make things so restrictive to get things done in a creative way. People don't want to move out... Buy the effing thing at a steal and move it down the road to some trailer park. I blame both sides.
NoSaint Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 I am sure to get Chef's ire up... With Katrina, why didn't they do what they did in 1906 after the SF Quake: "...After the earthquake, about 16,488 San Franciscans moved into 5,600 government-provided housing built in refugee camps across city parks. According to historians with The Western Neighborhoods Project, the "shacks" were built by Union carpenters for a cost of approximately $100 to $741 each, depending on size, painted green to blend in the park surroundings and rented to families at a cost of $2 to $6 per month. Once the city was rebuilt, city leaders wanted the structures removed and offered to sell the shacks to homebuyers at about $100 each, if the homeowner arranged to cart the tiny no-kitchen, no-bath shacks away. Buyers sometimes cobbled two or more shacks together to relocate them to parts of the city that weren't destroyed by the earthquake and fires..." See, that is the thing with people and why they are screwy... They get attached to things... Human nature... Everybody to a certain extent has that fault. They are trailers... Why didn't they just sell them to the people. Like I said above, the small rent people paid in 1906 went towards the purchase price. I am not sure if FEMA was charging a small rent... But if they did, they could have applied to a purchase and people could have been on their merry way anywhere with the trailer... Heck, wander around and hit the local KoA's... ;) I jest. What I am trying to say is that YES people are screwy... But the rules in play today make things so restrictive to get things done in a creative way. People don't want to move out... Buy the effing thing at a steal and move it down the road to some trailer park. I blame both sides. I see what your saying for sure but if you want the most practical answer for new orleans: they were deemed unsafe do to chemicals used in production/released over time(?) - I'm not entirely sure but remember there were rumors of lawsuits from people getting sick in them. They were designed as cheap, quick, short term emergency shelter - not homes. These were like 6x10 rooms with a bed on the end, not intended to hold people more than days/weeks. Maybe a couple months while homes were rebuilt. Housing wasnt short if they wanted to rent a livable space, quite frankly. Whole thing was a mess. I'm hoping our new mayor will help things point towards some end game, as ray nagin was a bumbling fool with no plan. A situation like that needs leadership and that was lost at the intersection of government policy and individuals in place. Honestly in a city like this I don't know that your plan would work, but I definitely agree with the ideas in a general sense.
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 I see what your saying for sure but if you want the most practical answer for new orleans: they were deemed unsafe do to chemicals used in production/released over time(?) - I'm not entirely sure but remember there were rumors of lawsuits from people getting sick in them. They were designed as cheap, quick, short term emergency shelter - not homes. These were like 6x10 rooms with a bed on the end, not intended to hold people more than days/weeks. Maybe a couple months while homes were rebuilt. Housing wasnt short if they wanted to rent a livable space, quite frankly. Whole thing was a mess. I'm hoping our new mayor will help things point towards some end game, as ray nagin was a bumbling fool with no plan. A situation like that needs leadership and that was lost at the intersection of government policy and individuals in place. Honestly in a city like this I don't know that your plan would work, but I definitely agree with the ideas in a general sense. Thanks! Understandable. During Katrina... Was there an option to get dirt cheap rent somewhere? And "rent to own?" They were putting people up in hotels right? The thing is, like the disaster in 1906... That temp housing was better (for the poor ones) than what they were accustomed to before the disaster! I don't know why they (Katrina people) have to take a step back and why some begrudge them? We really do handle things differently now and I not so sure it is soley the people's fault! This from 1907: "...At the time, the shacks are hailed by the San Francisco Chronicle as a social step in the right direction. Says the AP, in 1907, the Chronical reported, "People of the narrow streets of the tenements, who all their lives have lived in stifling, dark rooms amid noisome surroundings, have been given a chance to own their own homes, garden spots and free air..." Why not move them out of the FEMA trailers and into something better... Maybe some did? That is why they didn't want to leave! Is that the case? Were they paying "rent to own", like in 1906-1907?
DrFishfinder Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 Big deal. The world was created in 6 days. .....3......2......1....INCOMING DC TOMMMMMMMM.............
NoSaint Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 Thanks! Understandable. During Katrina... Was there an option to get dirt cheap rent somewhere? And "rent to own?" They were putting people up in hotels right? The thing is, like the disaster in 1906... That temp housing was better (for the poor ones) than what they were accustomed to before the disaster! I don't know why they (Katrina people) have to take a step back and why some begrudge them? We really do handle things differently now and I not so sure it is soley the people's fault! This from 1907: "...At the time, the shacks are hailed by the San Francisco Chronicle as a social step in the right direction. Says the AP, in 1907, the Chronical reported, "People of the narrow streets of the tenements, who all their lives have lived in stifling, dark rooms amid noisome surroundings, have been given a chance to own their own homes, garden spots and free air..." Why not move them out of the FEMA trailers and into something better... Maybe some did? That is why they didn't want to leave! Is that the case? Were they paying "rent to own", like in 1906-1907? Honest answer- I think they liked "free" over paid housing.
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) .....3......2......1....INCOMING DC TOMMMMMMMM............. And to elaborate on Doc's comment: Look how much God screwed up... I wouldn't rely on that road in Japan too much more than getting the supplies in and basic infrasturcture up! Again... The Japanese have a penchant for doing things in this order, apply it to anything Japanese... Including your new car warranty or run of the mill nuclear disaster: [Disclaimer... Be sure to find, #'s 12, 14, &16... They are in there! Of course the Japanese would never tell you that!] 1. IT WAS YOUR FAULT! 2. Things look bad, they really aren't... Everybody calm down! 3. IT WAS YOUR FAULT! 4. The situation really isn't that bad... It is getting better! 5. IT WAS YOUR FAULT! 6. Getting way better now. 7. IT WAS YOUR FAULT! 8. Oooops, looks like things are a tad worse. 9. IT WAS YOUR FAULT! 10. LOOK @ ALL THE PROGRESS THAT WAS MADE, WE ARE OUT OF THE WOODS... PROBLEM SOLVED! 11. WAS YOUR FAULT! 12. ooooo, we made a small calculation error, the problem seems to be worse than we thought. 13. STILL YOUR FAULT! 14. big problem, things are really bad... terrible problem/error here. 15 YOUR FAULT! 16. truly sorry, we we were wrong... totally wrong. 17. ANYWAY, IT WAS ALWAYS YOUR FAULT! Honest answer- I think they liked "free" over paid housing. I figured that was gonna be the reply... And it is truthful... Who doesn't? Why in the heck was it "free" to begin with? Couldn't they have charged rent like 20 bucks a month... "Rent to own." The people could have the option to actually take pride and move their "castle" to a trailer park. Edited March 26, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois
Dan Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 I figured that was gonna be the reply... And it is truthful... Who doesn't? Why in the heck was it "free" to begin with? Couldn't they have charged rent like 20 bucks a month... "Rent to own." The people could have the option to actually take pride and move their "castle" to a trailer park. It's something you see all the time. It's easy for so many of us to rail against the poor people after Katrina saying all they want are handouts and free housing. As though these people are any different than any other individual on the planet. Let beach erosion occur on Long Island and look at how many wealthy people expected the government to help. How many millionaires do everything possible to get out of paying taxes or move their factories wherever they get the cheapest land/labor/and tax rates. How do you attract the soccer mom to the mall... buy one get one free sales. Bottomline is... everyone wants something for nothing; from the wealthiest individual on the planet to the poorest. The real issue shouldn't be that they wanted it.. but should be that we gave it to them. And should the government be giving any residents, rich or poor, free money - in the form of housing or tax breaks or whatever. And if so, what's the most fair and equitable way that promotes our overall growth as a nation and a civil and secure society.
Clippers of Nfl Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 how did we go from japan's freeway to george bush hating black people?
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) It's something you see all the time. It's easy for so many of us to rail against the poor people after Katrina saying all they want are handouts and free housing. As though these people are any different than any other individual on the planet. Let beach erosion occur on Long Island and look at how many wealthy people expected the government to help. How many millionaires do everything possible to get out of paying taxes or move their factories wherever they get the cheapest land/labor/and tax rates. How do you attract the soccer mom to the mall... buy one get one free sales. Bottomline is... everyone wants something for nothing; from the wealthiest individual on the planet to the poorest. The real issue shouldn't be that they wanted it.. but should be that we gave it to them. And should the government be giving any residents, rich or poor, free money - in the form of housing or tax breaks or whatever. And if so, what's the most fair and equitable way that promotes our overall growth as a nation and a civil and secure society. :thumbsup: I am all for giving things away freely at times... But certain things (like longer term housing) should come with a little price tag on it... A deep discount, not free. We all know human nature. Nothing is wrong when people go through such disasters and they are given breaks to succeed past where they were... And even past some who worked thier fingers to the bone and didn't get as far. Why do we begrudge the "prodigal son's" among us? The disaster took the life out of NOLA, NOLA was lost, the people returned... Give them THE PROPER leg up upon return. Not push them down any further. how did we go from japan's freeway to george bush hating black people? Very easily... :bag: Edited March 26, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois
NoSaint Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 Aaaaand I immediately regret the sidetrack...... Was just noting the difference in culture/response and quick action. There were a lot of people that came back to new orleans, strapped the boots on and got to work.
DC Tom Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 how did we go from japan's freeway to george bush hating black people? Everything ultimately gets back to George W Bush hating black people.
....lybob Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 No unions in Japan. I also question the long-term stability of that fix, too. Looks like they scraped out the hillside, buttressed it, and poured a shitload of fill into it. That's not a stable base for a road. Still, if you've just had a 9.0 earthquake, and you need trucks of food moving quick, it'll work. And it's still damned impressive. Please tell me you were joking, and you're not really this stupid. I don't know if NEXCO is unionized or not but Japan certainly has unions.
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 I don't know if NEXCO is unionized or not but Japan certainly has unions. Japan is a socialized country... That's why things are working out well... ;) Oh.. Wait... Hasn't there been some more radiation... Things are worse than appeared... IT IS YOUR FAULT! It is always "your fault" in such a socially repressed country like Japan. I take back my socialized comment!
....lybob Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 Japan is a socialized country... That's why things are working out well... ;) Oh.. Wait... Hasn't there been some more radiation... Things are worse than appeared... IT IS YOUR FAULT! It is always "your fault" in such a socially repressed country like Japan. I take back my socialized comment! yeah I worry about Japan, they are so naive to Union workers swindles, like after the nuclear crisis they will probably give the surviving irradiated crybabies health benefits and disability- thank god I live in a country that will at least try to deny any benefits to emergency workers,it was too bad the Republicans caved and that 9/11 first responders bill made it through but hey no country is perfect.
BuffaloBill Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 No unions in Japan. Absolutely not true .... though a very different situation than the U.S.
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