VADC Bills Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) I keep seeing people saying that Newton's ceiling is higher, but I don't understand why. Is it because of his running ability? If so, take Locker or Kaepernick who are similar or better athletes with equivalent arms. I don't see ANYTHING that Newton has done that translates to the NFL. Even Vince Young and Mike Vick haven't been big running threats in the NFL. Vick had to learn to be more of a passer to succeed and I am not sure Young has succeeded. Can anyone name a good NFL QB who was more of a threat as a runner than he was a passer? I'd have to go back to Bobby Douglas of the Bears in the 70s - and he wasn't a good QB. I just think that Newton is SOOO raw and hasn't proven that he has the work ethic to succeed. Maybe more importantly, he has ZERO experience reading defenses and making quick decisions on who to throw to. I think that is a very big issue, because I think that is the one thing that can't be taught. If it could be taught, then I think Rob Johnson and JP Losman would have been successful NFL QBs. Both had good-very good athletic ability and both had outstanding arms, yet they never could learn to make those quick decisions. On the flip side, nobody will every accuse Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers or Drew Brees of being great athletes or having cannons for an arm, but they are 4 of the very best QBs in the NFL - clearly there is more to being a good QB than having a big arm and great athletic ability. You say you haven't seen Newton do anything that translates to the NFL. The real problem here is you haven't seen any of the QB's available this year do anything that translate to the NFL. Luck was the only one you could really put in that category. I disagree when you say Locker or Kaepernick are better athletes. Newton is clearly the better all around athlete here. He has the ability to extend the play, he is very similar to Big Ben which is probably the best comparison. Note, you don't alway have to compare an African American player to other African Americans, you can compare them to white athletes and vice versa if it's appropriate. You say Mike Vick is a not a big running threat??? He is a tremendous running threat, where have you been? He did not generate excitement for years with his arm. I remember Bobby Douglass quite well he was not the threat that Vick is although Douglass did date some very gorgeous playmates at the time. Douglass simply could not beat you with his arm or legs, Vick can. I do agree with your point that he had to learn to be more of a passer with time. I think Randall Cunningham and Flutie are examples of this as well. The real problem with Johnson, Losman, and every QB that comes out of college is their ability to read defenses. Thats why they would look good in the preseason and not the regular season. I totally agree that it is most important to have the QB that can make the quick read offensively and defensively. That is the big gamble about selecting college QB's NONE of them have experience reading pro defenses at pro speed..you just don't know how quickly they will pick it up if at all. So don't just single out Newton here. All of these QB's are very raw but Newton is the only one that has won championships at various levels so if you question his work ethics you have to really question the others. All he has done is win Championships. He seems as though he knows what to do to win championships...can you say that about the others? Your basics points are you think Newton is too dumb and lazy for the pro's. Given the challenges that all of the college QB's you have mentioned have had to face, Newton comes out on top. It's about WINNING so that doesn't say much for the others. With that being said I would prefer to see the Bills go defense with in the first round and even the second. I could be happy with Newton, Locker, or Keapernick, just not in the first round. Edited March 26, 2011 by VADC Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Newton and it's not close at all, and I'm no cam newton fan 2010 301 475 3186 63.4 6.71 68 16 9- Blaine Gabbert. 6.7ypa in a spread only 16 tds and this guy is a top 5 pick? 2010 185 280 2854 66.1 10.19 94 30 7- Cam Newton. Not to mention his superior athletic ability running the football, out performed gabbert on every level in a much tougher defensive conference. Speaking from pure ability of what they've shown on the field Newton wins hands down. Gabbert and his Edwards Esque statistics can be some other teams issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananathumb Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I chose newton because Cam is a more manly name than Blaine. We all know Trent didn't fit Buffalo's manly tradition because of his name, whereas Fitz (not Ryan) is just perfect. In Buffalo, it's all about a QB's name. Go Cam, go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffHead Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I watch a lot of college football. I've seen at least 10 of Gabbert's games at Missouri. Not once did I come away with the impression that he would be a high draft pick/NFL star. I really think he's just up that high because a QB is always picked in the top 5 and he happens to be one of the best of a weak group. If I was making the choice I would definitely take Newton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) I chose Newton because even though he's black, his name isn't Blaine. Edited March 26, 2011 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I keep seeing people saying that Newton's ceiling is higher, but I don't understand why. Is it because of his running ability? If so, take Locker or Kaepernick who are similar or better athletes with equivalent arms. I don't see ANYTHING that Newton has done that translates to the NFL. Even Vince Young and Mike Vick haven't been big running threat in the NFL . Vick had to learn to be more of a passer to succeed and I am not sure Young has succeeded. Can anyone name a good NFL QB who was more of a threat as a runner than he was a passer? I'd have to go back to Bobby Douglas of the Bears in the 70s - and he wasn't a good QB. I just think that Newton is SOOO raw and hasn't proven that he has the work ethic to succeed. Maybe more importantly, he has ZERO experience reading defenses and making quick decisions on who to throw to. I think that is a very big issue, because I think that is the one thing that can't be taught. If it could be taught, then I think Rob Johnson and JP Losman would have been successful NFL QBs. Both had good-very good athletic ability and both had outstanding arms, yet they never could learn to make those quick decisions. On the flip side, nobody will every accuse Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers or Drew Brees of being great athletes or having cannons for an arm, but they are 4 of the very best QBs in the NFL - clearly there is more to being a good QB than having a big arm and great athletic ability. ARE YOU HIGH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 Funny, you 'want to know how opinion is stacking up' yet this is your response to an opinion different from yours? Next time why don't you start a poll with one option (yours) and leave it at that? He said Newton IS the next Jamarcus Russell/Vince young. He didn't say he thought he was. Yes, I have a problem with people stating their opinion as fact. When someone says that a player IS something or another, that suggests to me that they KNOW this to be true. You may not find this to be annoying, but I do. I just have my opinions, and rarely if ever do I claim my opinion to be the truth But if there is one thing I KNOW, is that Newton has a CHANCE to become something other than Jamarcus and vince. I asked for opinions, and I sarcastically replied to someone that said Newton is Jamarcus or Vince. Not sure why the board police is out to get me. I didnt disagree with his opinion, I said that he knows it all. Btw, if I only put my choice in the poll, i wouldnt be able to get the info I was looking for. Thanks for the advice though No, this was his response to a differing opinion: The last part you nitpicked was a response to an overplayed, incredibly socially and football ignorant statement. Not sure what you're referring to, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Newton is the next jamarcus russel/ Vince Young..great athletic abilty to make him and elite college QB, but enough of a head case to make him an NFL bust. This is a very unimpressive crop of QBs in this draft. IMO the best option is to take the best available in the 3rd or trade back into the 2nd and get a guy to develop under Fitz for a year or two and build elsewhere and then plug a young Qb into a decent situation. He said Newton IS the next Jamarcus Russell/Vince young. He didn't say he thought he was. Yes, I have a problem with people stating their opinion as fact. When someone says that a player IS something or another, that suggests to me that they KNOW this to be true. You may not find this to be annoying, but I do. I just have my opinions, and rarely if ever do I claim my opinion to be the truth But if there is one thing I KNOW, is that Newton has a CHANCE to become something other than Jamarcus and vince. Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 Seriously? Seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyjustbcuz Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Personally, I'm against drafting a qb in round 2. You feel as if the QB we'd be taking in the 2nd is on par with the potential QBs in the 1st. I feel the potential QBs in the 2nd are closer to the level of a qb that can be had in the 4th. I love the defensive talent that looks to be available in the 2nd. I also feel that the best QBs in the league are the ones that are taken in the 1st. I know that's is not always the case, but theres a LOT more successful QBs taken in the 1st then there are in the later rounds. I don't wanna waste a 2nd round pick on a career backup. Sure, a first Rd qb can be a bust too, but he's more likely to succeed than a qb drafted after the 1st. That's statistically true, but anything can happen I hear ya....I would say normally there is seperation between the first two or three QB's in a draft class and all the other QB's. With me it's not so much that there is a definite distinction between Newton/Gabbert and all the other QB's, but there are some characteristics of both that may warrant 1st round selections. I look at everything when I do my mocks..Stat's, Body Composition, Performance at the Combine, Pro Days, NFL Mock Draft magazines, Team Sites, Video Highlights, etc...I also look at hundreds of other Mock drafts from the average fan to the experts in the field. The straight to the point personal feelings I have on Cam Newton is this: I feel that he posseses an abundance of talent! I do always raise eyebrows when the QB did not play in an NFL like offense, but quite honestly that is very common, and it's the exception anymore when a QB played in a NFL offense. My caution on Cam Newton does not reflect his performance or his athletic abilities. It solely stems from a question of moral and ethic concerns. I am always slow to commit to a player that has been accused of theft in the past. I am not thrilled that Cam Newton's father tried to solicit his son's services to the highest bidder. What does that say about the upbringing and environment that Cam Newton was brought up in? I believe there were one or two other questionable allegations as well. I really see a big red flag waving when I see Cam Newton. Add to that that he see's himself as a entertainer and a Icon even though he hasn't accomplished anything in the NFL yet speaks volumes. I also as stated above sense a fakeness and rehearsed approach when he addresses the media. I don't really have a high opinion of someone who continuously addresses himself in the third person! You won't see Tony do that!!! lol..(see what I mean ??) I wouldn't take him with my 2nd round pick to be honest! He would be gone to the highest bidder in free agency and playing in sunny Miami where he can be a dance idol on the side and make three times $$$ his rookie contract or more. What has Blaine Gabbert proven? Statistically he isn't even a top 5 QB! Colin Kapernick, Ricky Stanzi, Ryan Mallet, Cam Newton, and a few others have much better stats. Just because he was an accurate passer in his pistol offense in his final college season doesn't neccesarily equate to NFL success. Many of his passes were the same dink and dunk short passes that Captain checkdown (T.E.) used to thrive on. Just because he is the prototype build doesn't mean he will be the next Peyton Manning. Tom Brady's are once every 20 years. Most QB's don't come out of nowhere stat wise and become world champion QB's in the NFL. I never even heard talk of Blaine Gabbert much until Andrew Luck ducked out of this draft! It was Luck, Luck, Luck, and suddenly because Gabbert has a good pro day on his home field without defenders pressuring him..and suddenly he is top 5 or 10? One of the biggest flaws mentioned about Gabbert is that he often struggles to sense the pocket pressure from the defense. That's a big problem, especially in the NFL where everything is much quicker and less forgiving! I know Ryan Mallet has his red flags as well and there is a question about him trying drugs in some fashion, but he throws a tight spiral and a bullet and has very good stats. Jake Locker has a lot of intangibles and can run very well. He is a good leader etc... Most of these players in the top tier of the Draft are tall and built like QB's. There are probably 5-7 QB's in this draft that I feel can become a future franchise QB. I think that most if not all of them will require 1-2 years of development including Cameron Newton and Blaine Gabbert. I do not think there is a Sam Bradford in this draft who can just go out there in his first year and start being a NFL QB. I think in some of the other drafts that Cam Newton would be a mid first rounder, and Blaine Gabbert would be a 2nd round pick, along with Ryan Mallet and Jake Locker, but without a Andrew Luck or a Sam Bradford this draft is what it is and everyone moves up some to meet the needs of teams who will select a QB early. Overall I don't think much of the QB class of 2011, and that is why I said that defense may be the way to go! I also agree that the defensive talent is deep and can understand the temptation to wait for a DT or DE, but I also think that the top 6 or 7 defensive line players are far seperated from the 2nd tier defenders. I think Dareus, Fairley, Bowers, (and still wondering about how I really feel about Von Miller..) C. Jorden etc..and a couple of others is the catch of the day! The one thing about the draft is you may be right, I may be right, but the Bills never quite seem to do the expected or probably the most prudent thing when it comes to drafting players. So what will they really do? Probably go after A.J. Green and fool everyone!!! lol..but possibly true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) tonyjustbcuz, I understand a lot of your points. However, I think the 2 things that point on why to take a QB in round 1 is this: 1. If you believe there is a QB that could be a potential superstar (personally I think that Cam is this years huge deal, if you prefer Gabbert that's fine too) then you take him no matter what the potential is that he could boom or bust. Your shooting for the stars with your first pick. Hoping whoever it is, can be a playmaker for the next 10 years. No other position in football does that like QB and Newton is larger than life in that aspect. IMO he will be an icon and raise the team as well as people around it. He's the franchise saving pick IMO. 2. You stated already that the def at defense in this draft is very deep(especially at our positions of need). I think you take the POTENTIAL Star/BPA with the #1 pick and then fill needs and depth with every pick after that. Edited March 27, 2011 by mrags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Pretty Worrisome Gabbert stats I think Blaine Gappert is the biggest sham going and some team is going to ruin their franchise for the next 3-5 years picking him in the top 10. Ever hear of Alex Smith? Joey Harrington? JP Losman? Tim Couch? Rick Mirer? Gabbert: #69 in QB rating 16TDs / 9 INTs (horrible numbers for a spread offense) 6.7 YPA 3rd and 8-10 yards: 3.25 YPA (that's worse than Trent Edwards) Newton: #2 in QB rating 30TDs / 7 iINTs (20 rushing TDs) 10.2 YPA 3rd and 8-10 yards: 12.5 YPA I will be LMAO if the Panthers pick Gabbert. I found this random link that was shocking in it's descriptions of Gabbert: http://atomicteeth.fantake.com/2010/11/07/mizzoutexas-tech-post-mortem-time-to-jump/ "• Gabbert has to be the worst third down quarterback in college. One of 12. Throw in an 0 for 2 on fourth downs and you get the feeling why it never really felt like the Tigers were going to get back in it once down by 7. • Texas Tech did not get any appreciable pressure on Gabbert, yet he was running around scared all night. Gabbert got sacked once. • 12 of 30 passing. Remember when we could liken Gabbert’s accuracy to that of pre-Okie State Chase Daniel? Now he’s more like Ricky Vaughn. • 3.2 yards per passing attempt. • Under 100 yards passing against the 117th ranked passing defense." Yikes!!!! So yes, I've heard of him enough to not want him any where near the Buffalo Bills unless he's on the opposing sideline…LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sllib olaffub Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Newton. Go back and watch his games. Then go watch Gabbert's games. You tell me who the difference maker is. Not just running, but throwing. NEITHER of them had to read defenses in college the way the will have to learn to in the pros. So I don't know why the pro Gabbert supporters overlook that fact. If the Bills took Gabbert I would trust Nix and Gailey. But I don't think they are that crazy to overlook what the tape will tell them. The draft isn't about personalities. It's about talent. It's about future possibility. Don't like Newton's personality? So what. Newton has size, athleticism and arm strength. He can play the game. And he's already demonstrated his ability to lead teams to the ultimate goal. He went to JUCO and won a title then earned the starting job at Auburn and dominated there too. That took a lot of work. He had to work his way back up from the bottom and he did that. He also demonstrated an ability to play under adversity. And he played well; better and better each week. What other QB in the draft has proven that capability? The other QB's will be found out about when they hit the NFL field. We already know Newton can perform under pressure. I'm glad the draft isn't up to some Bills fans. Small thinking is Buffalo, NY's main problem. It's why bridges are talked about for years and never built. It's why that property goldmine in waiting, the waterfront, is still not fully developed. And the same small thinking would choose Blaine Gabbert, who DIDN'T stand out at Mizzou. Who DIDN'T dominate his competition in the Big 12. The same guy who refused to throw at the combine because he wants to play draft games. Take him why? Because he has no character flags that anyone knows about? Because he doesn't want to be an icon? Whatever. Go big or go home. Go back to ESPN or SI.com or Foxsports and call up their headlines from October to December. Tell me how many featured Gabbert. Maybe one. Because he wasn't that hot. The game tape doesn't lie. Take Newton if they take a QB at #3. If not, take Von Miller or Pat Peterson. Bills need elite athletes and playmakers on this team. Keep that feel good, he's a good guy, he "fits" in BS. It's time for this organization and Buffalo, NY to take their place at the top and that's done with big thinking, risk taking and elite talent that can possibly transcend over time. There are no guarantees in life. That's no reason to not try. Thank You! I couldn't agree more. Enough Kelsay types. We have a team full of character guys now, who do play their tails off. We need excellence, or at least real intangible laden leadership in the position like QB. The more I hear about Newton, the more I view video on him vs Gabbert, the more it is obvious who is a better overall prospect - I think Newton has things that Gabbert doesn't - Newton has some Rothlisberger in him in his ability to sense pressure, to scramble to make plays. Yet, on the whole, I believe there are a lot of quality QB's in this class, much more than recent years, that could end up as quality starters - and I think there are three to five potential Franchise QB's in this crop. It's a perfect match of fate that Buffalo is picking so high this year in all the rounds, because it so happens the draft is deep where we are lacking in more than one area. Thinking Big and taking risks is needed. We need playmakers in teh front seven, at QB, the secondary wouldn't hurt, O-line wouldn't hurt. We're not going to get them all in the draft, but we should expect that this year we come away from rounds 1-4 with at least 2 stars and another 2 starters at positions of need. There is enough depth at OLB, DE, DT, WR, and QB that we should be leaving round 4 with a QB, a DE or 2, and a LB or 2. And, we are what we are talent wise, so I hope to see Buddy being aggressive, thinking outside of his age/experience box that dictates "we just pick, we don't mess around with trading...(paraphrasing)" and that he moves around to go after the talent we need at the top of this draft. We could have the core of a playoff roster in place after the draft, UDFA, and FA of this year. No excuses, and no more poor drafting (and I do think last year's draft was a good one for setting up quality depth at areas of weakness, but now we need some real stand out playmakers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Not sure what you're referring to, I was sticking up for you, in case it wasnt clear. Go Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Anderson's Lunch Pail Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I picked Newton because if he is a bust at QB he could still be an unstoppable WR, where Gabbert would be a goofy looking white dude with the name Blane and grow a gross beard ala JP. People always use that argument about athletic players, but seriously, when has a guy ever been a Top 10 pick at one positition, flamed out, then excelled at another position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 I was sticking up for you, in case it wasnt clear. Go Bills I thought so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 How many Cam Newton type, over hyped college super athletes need to fail in the nfl before people start to get it? If the Bills draft either of these two with the 3 overall it will be disappointing…. Draft D or o line, period.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Pretty Worrisome Gabbert stats Yet there's 55 people (Gabbert's current total) who apparently didn't get their fill of Trent Edwards and his magical 3 yard passes on 3rd and 8...LOL I'm truly amazed at the totals for Gabbert. I feel like Bills fans will have to consider relinquishing their "smartest fans in the league" cards soon with these poll results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Newton is the next jamarcus russel/ Vince Young..great athletic abilty to make him and elite college QB, but enough of a head case to make him an NFL bust. This is a very unimpressive crop of QBs in this draft. IMO the best option is to take the best available in the 3rd or trade back into the 2nd and get a guy to develop under Fitz for a year or two and build elsewhere and then plug a young Qb into a decent situation. There is nothing that shows Newton is a head case like Russell or Young. Nothing. Everything shows he is a very hard worker and a leader. The only reason you link him with those Russell and Young is he is black. BTW what is VY won/ loss record in the NFL? Something like 33-17 I think. VY may have a mental problem but not a football problem. I'd take a 67% winning percentage from any QB white or black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Yet there's 55 people (Gabbert's current total) who apparently didn't get their fill of Trent Edwards and his magical 3 yard passes on 3rd and 8...LOL I'm truly amazed at the totals for Gabbert. I feel like Bills fans will have to consider relinquishing their "smartest fans in the league" cards soon with these poll results. Most of whom I've bet never watched this guy play. It's funny to me. All these posts about qb's and I've yet to see 1 good reason for drafting Gabbert other than "He doesn't have character issues like Newton". There is zero in the way of actual game play/statistics that show Gabbert would potentially make a franchise qb. I'd honestly pass on both Gabbert and Newton this draft is too strong on defensive linemen to miss out for a project qb. Although push comes to shove Newton's ceiling is higher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts