Booster4324 Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Glad I could make you day. That is your. You typo a lot, 3 martini lunches?
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) That is your. You typo a lot, 3 martini lunches? Four, it's been a good month. And thanks for pointing out my typos. I'll pay closer attention. Edited March 24, 2011 by Chef Jim
Booster4324 Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Four, it's been a good month. And then you drive...
Clippers of Nfl Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 That is what she said. lol. you are good at highjacking an interesting threat about Detroit. Detroit thread > Chef in another pissing match in his defense, at least he makes the site interesting. everyone agreeing on everything would probably get boring.
Buftex Posted March 24, 2011 Author Posted March 24, 2011 I guess the mistake the company made is they just should have laid her off outright. If finances dictate you get rid of a few people the you has to do it. No one is entitled to a job unless you own the company. Problem is that brings a entire new set of problems, pressures that the average employee knows nothing of. Taking you acquaintance situation at face value it looks like the company was weasely in its execution. Not necessaries wrong in its intent. Problem is most liberals(not saying you are) use something like this to indict the entire capitalist, free enterprise system or they cry union. Thing is they ignore all the great companies out there that treat their employees great. In our little company, we like to treat our employees as well as we can because its so hard to find good ones. I think this is universal in this country so generally speaking, it doesn't make sense that businesses treat employees unfairly. That is if they want to hold on to them. Thank you for recognizing the distinction. Her company, btw, is the state of Texas. Perhaps I did a poor job of explaining, they had already announced that there would be layoffs at the end of May. They offered those laid off a 3 month severenc package. I think my subject was more than aware that she would have been a likely candidate for a lay-off. But what they did, and it is very transparent to me (remember I was management in this place) was come up with a list of people that they wanted to get rid of (all older, most, as it happens black or hisanic). Why pay my subject $13 an hour to man a cash register, when you can get a few work studies for a fraction of the cost? I get it. While I was still there, replacing people who left, with work-studies and volunteers was all the rage. Save money. I understand that. It sucks, but that is the way it goes. But why treat someone who has been a good, faithful employee that way, just to save a couple of thousand dollars? The severance packages weren't for the people who could least afford to be out of work, it was for the tenured, over-age sorority sisters who likely got hired in the first place, because the knew someone. By the way, I don't take any offense to being called a liberal, so no offense is taken. And I wasn't condemning the capitalist system, or crying "union". I believe that most companies, and even the state, would treat their employees well, if they can. But that is no excuse for just marginalizing people either. You don't want the "great companies" that treat their employees well to be ignored, but, you, and others, are more than willing to ignore examples when people aren't treated so well.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 monument to outsourcing, Wouldn't need outsourcing if screwturners weren't paid 50,000 a year. The UAW KILLED the American auto industry, like the USW did to steel.
thebug Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Okay, this thread has run it's course. I'm shuttin' er down. Oh wait, I have no power to do that. Sorry, sometimes I think I am more important than I actually am.
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Thank you for recognizing the distinction. Her company, btw, is the state of Texas. Perhaps I did a poor job of explaining, they had already announced that there would be layoffs at the end of May. They offered those laid off a 3 month severenc package. I think my subject was more than aware that she would have been a likely candidate for a lay-off. But what they did, and it is very transparent to me (remember I was management in this place) was come up with a list of people that they wanted to get rid of (all older, most, as it happens black or hisanic). Why pay my subject $13 an hour to man a cash register, when you can get a few work studies for a fraction of the cost? I get it. While I was still there, replacing people who left, with work-studies and volunteers was all the rage. Save money. I understand that. It sucks, but that is the way it goes. But why treat someone who has been a good, faithful employee that way, just to save a couple of thousand dollars? The severance packages weren't for the people who could least afford to be out of work, it was for the tenured, over-age sorority sisters who likely got hired in the first place, because the knew someone. By the way, I don't take any offense to being called a liberal, so no offense is taken. And I wasn't condemning the capitalist system, or crying "union". I believe that most companies, and even the state, would treat their employees well, if they can. But that is no excuse for just marginalizing people either. You don't want the "great companies" that treat their employees well to be ignored, but, you, and others, are more than willing to ignore examples when people aren't treated so well. And after reading his post I also didn't really express myself well. I in no way was siding with the employers. I'm not sure if you even suggested that but I just wanted to get that out there. They handled it poorly. And when you're dealing with a at will state you have be realize that your job is alway tenuous. You lose your job, you get pissed, you get over it and you look for brighter pastures. And I was really going at you when it was Pete who was really blaming everything on "the man" so I really didn't mean to drag you into it. Damn I gotta hit the bar before I drive home at 85 miles an hour. Those four martinis appear to be wearing off. Okay, this thread has run it's course. I'm shuttin' er down. Oh wait, I have no power to do that. Sorry, sometimes I think I am more important than I actually am. Sometimes?? I can give you some lessons on how to improve that.
Pete Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Wouldn't need outsourcing if screwturners weren't paid 50,000 a year. The UAW KILLED the American auto industry, like the USW did to steel. and globalization, fat pig CEO's, cheap world labor, NAFTA. and myopia had nothing to with Detroits death. It is all on UAW. Your arguments were so compelling, articulate, and thought provoking
birdog1960 Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) I guess the mistake the company made is they just should have laid her off outright. If finances dictate you get rid of a few people the you has to do it. No one is entitled to a job unless you own the company. Problem is that brings a entire new set of problems, pressures that the average employee knows nothing of. Taking you acquaintance situation at face value it looks like the company was weasely in its execution. Not necessaries wrong in its intent. Problem is most liberals(not saying you are) use something like this to indict the entire capitalist, free enterprise system or they cry union. Thing is they ignore all the great companies out there that treat their employees great. In our little company, we like to treat our employees as well as we can because its so hard to find good ones. I think this is universal in this country so generally speaking, it doesn't make sense that businesses treat employees unfairly. That is if they want to hold on to them. it may not make sense but it happens all the time. people lose their jobs over small dips in business or more expensive, older employees are terminated because of the high cost of their benefits (a problem that could be solved by universal health care btw) or people are made part time so no benefits are given. and then there are minimum wage jobs that pay no where near a living wage even to heads of households. there are plenty of "good" companies, big and small, that do these things regularly. i'm glad your small business is better than that. mine is too. but this is not typical and some people really are victims. some of the lost jobs during the recession were trimming of dead wood at an opportune time. i don't sympathize with those that weren't pulling their weight and no doubt lazy folks were and are out in the work force. i do find it interesting that more men lost jobs than women. some of this might be due to the fact that on average they're paid less then men for the same job (which is totally unjustified) but i think there's more to it than that. you won't be surprised to hear that i also proudly accept the label "liberal". it's not a dirty word. Edited March 24, 2011 by birdog1960
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) and globalization, fat pig CEO's, cheap world labor, NAFTA. and myopia had nothing to with Detroits death. It is all on UAW. Your arguments were so compelling, articulate, and thought provoking Spare me. Labor cost is the number ONE reason for the failure of American industry. Are fatcat CEOs also to blame? Sure! For negotiating and tolerating unions, they should be excoriated. Lazy management. If I own a company and can manufacture a widget in China for 3 cents and it costs me 25 cents in the US, why on Earth would I lose money by manufacturing in the US? My old man worked for the Steel for 30 years. In that time, he witnessed tens of thousands of overpaid union laborers and almost as many white collar workers lose their jobs because the USW wouldn't concede on salary. The net effect? Beth Steel is no more. But I'll bet your answer is to tarriff foreign goods, forgetting the terrible effects of Hoot-Smalley during the Depression era. Edited March 24, 2011 by joesixpack
Just Jack Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Okay, this thread has run it's course. I'm shuttin' er down. Oh wait, I have no power to do that. I do.
Bishop Hedd Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 Wow...these pictures are just amazing...almost like "Beneath The Planet of the Apes", excpet its' Detroint and not NYC...and there are no apes! Just kind sad and tragic...but kind of beautiful at the same time... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/23/detroit-decline_n_813696.html#218521 The website Fabulous Ruins of Detroit- http://www.detroityes.com/home.htm - has been around for about 15 years...there is no better site for witnessing the decline of one of America's disposable cities. I went every year-sometimes twice a year from 1988 to 2000 to Detroit to catch Yankee games or any other team since Tiger Stadium was the best place to see a Major league baseball game. Then the franchise went corporate and they built Comerica so there was no reason to go back. Still being the urban explorer I was at the time there is something to be said about the "sites"...beautiful in their decay. Truly amazing how rust belt cities are scoffed at here...they only made the world safe for democracy. But shucks I expect nothing less here.
Dante Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 The website Fabulous Ruins of Detroit- http://www.detroityes.com/home.htm - has been around for about 15 years...there is no better site for witnessing the decline of one of America's disposable cities. I went every year-sometimes twice a year from 1988 to 2000 to Detroit to catch Yankee games or any other team since Tiger Stadium was the best place to see a Major league baseball game. Then the franchise went corporate and they built Comerica so there was no reason to go back. Still being the urban explorer I was at the time there is something to be said about the "sites"...beautiful in their decay. Truly amazing how rust belt cities are scoffed at here...they only made the world safe for democracy. But shucks I expect nothing less here. Not so much the cities themselves but the government and unions that squeezed the life out of them.
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