"Israel Lobby"

[Wacka]

Supporting another country is OK.

 

Lying, bullying, bribing, and manipulating the US system to use the US military to wage war for the sole purpose of achieving another country's expansionist objectives is treason, no matter how many anti-semite cards are tossed for noticing it.

 

Got enough cards thrown at you to make a deck yet?

[ExiledInIllinois]

A serious question here:

 

How does one actually speak out against Israeli policy without coming across as an "anti-semite?" Or... Is the person speaking out against how Isreal behaves in the end just an anti-semite afterall. How do people resolve and get past the notion that speaking out against Israel has nothing to do with killing jews?

 

Just saying... Quite an angle Israel has working for it with the guilt trip.

[Rob's House]

A serious question here:

 

How does one actually speak out against Israeli policy without coming across as an "anti-semite?" Or... Is the person speaking out against how Isreal behaves in the end just an anti-semite afterall. How do people resolve and get past the notion that speaking out against Israel has nothing to do with killing jews?

 

Just saying... Quite an angle Israel has working for it with the guilt trip.

As much as it pains me to say it, you make a valid point here. I think the thought process goes something like this:

Holocaust = Atrocity

Jews = Victim

Israel = Jews

Anti-Israel = Anti-Jew = Pro-Holocaust

 

It's not a whole lot different than how we treat race issues here due to slavery/segregation guilt.

 

In fairness to us as humans, it's pretty damn hard to see the horrific treatment suffered by innocent people (especially children) and maintain an objective point of view. I sympathize with a lot of Palestinian grievances, but you can't ask the Israelis to roll over and die either. It's a tough issue.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Rob's House

[Dexter]

As much as it pains me to say it, you make a valid point here. I think the thought process goes something like this:

Holocaust = Atrocity

Jews = Victim

Israel = Jews

Anti-Israel = Anti-Jew = Pro-Holocaust

 

It's not a whole lot different than how we treat race issues here due to slavery/segregation guilt.

 

In fairness to us as humans, it's pretty damn hard to see the horrific treatment suffered by innocent people (especially children) and maintain an objective point of view. I sympathize with a lot of Palestinian grievances, but you can't ask the Israelis to roll over and die either. It's a tough issue.

 

 

 

But it is not OUR ISSUE, with the "our" meaning American. The US should stand for peace, justice, and enforcing UN defined borders. The US does that with every country on the planet, except ONE, the one outside its UN defined border.

 

The US should STAY OUT of REGIONAL DISPUTES and support the UN on border issues, PERIOD, and stuff like this NO FLY over Libya. Picking one side, arming it, watching it lie and invade and occupy, and then praising it for doing so, that is the "US position" on Israel thanks mostly to LBJ and W. That is also 100% the cause of 911 and our troops being deployed to Iraq = our political class is addicted to Zionist money and media coverage.

 

 

Lying to start a war with no US national interest is treason.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The US should stand for peace, justice, and enforcing UN defined borders.

 

1948, 1973.

[Joe Miner]

The US should stand for peace, justice, and enforcing UN defined borders.

 

Ahh...just as our forefathers envisioned.

 

Or was that Superman?

[Dexter]

and we are STILL the ONLY ONES vetoing the UN from acting... with "Anti-Israel" Obama as President...

 

 

http://gimmetruth.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/us-vetoes-un-resolution-on-israeli-settlements-14-member-states-support/

 

 

"All 14 other Security Council members voted in favour of the resolution.

 

British Ambassador Mark Lyall Grant, speaking on behalf of his country, France and Germany, condemned Israeli settlements in the West Bank. “They are illegal under international law,” he said.

 

He added that the European Union’s three biggest nations hope that an independent state of Palestine will join the United Nations as a new member state by September 2011.

 

The Obama administration’s veto is certain to anger Arab countries and Palestinian supporters around the world. An abstention would have angered the Israelis, the closest US ally in the region, as well as Democratic and Republican supporters of Israel in the American Congress.

 

Washington says it opposes settlements in principal, but claims that the UN Security Council is not the appropriate venue for resolving the decades-old Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

And tell me, Dex. How exactly does Israel negotiate with the likes of Hamas and Hizbollah, who advocate NOT a two-state solution, but extermination of the Israeli state?

 

Please, enlighten me, since you seem to have ALL the answers.

[ExiledInIllinois]

As much as it pains me to say it, you make a valid point here. I think the thought process goes something like this:

Holocaust = Atrocity

Jews = Victim

Israel = Jews

Anti-Israel = Anti-Jew = Pro-Holocaust

 

It's not a whole lot different than how we treat race issues here due to slavery/segregation guilt.

 

In fairness to us as humans, it's pretty damn hard to see the horrific treatment suffered by innocent people (especially children) and maintain an objective point of view. I sympathize with a lot of Palestinian grievances, but you can't ask the Israelis to roll over and die either. It's a tough issue.

 

 

A broken clock is right twice a day... Of course I am on military time...

 

We need to get past the point about the killings and seriously move forward. Same with the race... YET... IMO, a bit different. I believe we still have that undercurrent of violence lurking in society... Nazi Germany was a product of the political system.

[LeviF]

A serious question here:

 

How does one actually speak out against Israeli policy without coming across as an "anti-semite?" Or... Is the person speaking out against how Isreal behaves in the end just an anti-semite afterall. How do people resolve and get past the notion that speaking out against Israel has nothing to do with killing jews?

 

Just saying... Quite an angle Israel has working for it with the guilt trip.

 

 

As much as it pains me to say it, you make a valid point here. I think the thought process goes something like this:

Holocaust = Atrocity

Jews = Victim

Israel = Jews

Anti-Israel = Anti-Jew = Pro-Holocaust

 

It's not a whole lot different than how we treat race issues here due to slavery/segregation guilt.

 

In fairness to us as humans, it's pretty damn hard to see the horrific treatment suffered by innocent people (especially children) and maintain an objective point of view. I sympathize with a lot of Palestinian grievances, but you can't ask the Israelis to roll over and die either. It's a tough issue.

Thank goodness someone finally said it. I don't think even Dexter has expressed hatred of Jews, just a hatred of how we treat Israel. He hasn't even said he hates Israel; I'm fairly certain of that.

 

Even if he said he hated Israel, let's think about this for a second (I'm going to go ahead and pull an OCinBuffalo here...)

Hating China != Hating Chinese people

Hating Iran != Hating Iranian people

Hating Israel != Hating Israeli people

 

If he means what I think he means by "card tossing," than that is exactly what people do when they call anti-Zionists (or those who think similarly) anti-Semites. Dexter should be called all sorts of names, but I don't think anti-Semite is one of them.

[Dexter]

And tell me, Dex. How exactly does Israel negotiate with the likes of Hamas and Hizbollah, who advocate NOT a two-state solution, but extermination of the Israeli state?

 

Please, enlighten me, since you seem to have ALL the answers.

 

 

I'll enlighten you.

 

This is the United States. The Israel-Palestinian issue does not involve the United States. It involves Israel, the Palestinians, the Lebanese, the Egyptians, the Jordanians, and several other groups, but not AMERICANS.

 

If you wish to help Israel wage war on its neighbors, go move there and sign up. Don't sit behind the white sheet posting lies to manipulate the US to wage war on Israel's enemies for no US national interest.

[DC Tom]

If he means what I think he means by "card tossing," than that is exactly what people do when they call anti-Zionists (or those who think similarly) anti-Semites. Dexter should be called all sorts of names, but I don't think anti-Semite is one of them.

 

I agree.

 

But it's not going to stop me, because frankly I think Dexter's just !@#$ing around, and I don't take him at all seriously.

[Dexter]

Thank goodness someone finally said it. I don't think even Dexter has expressed hatred of Jews, just a hatred of how we treat Israel. He hasn't even said he hates Israel; I'm fairly certain of that.

 

Even if he said he hated Israel, let's think about this for a second (I'm going to go ahead and pull an OCinBuffalo here...)

Hating China != Hating Chinese people

Hating Iran != Hating Iranian people

Hating Israel != Hating Israeli people

 

If he means what I think he means by "card tossing," than that is exactly what people do when they call anti-Zionists (or those who think similarly) anti-Semites. Dexter should be called all sorts of names, but I don't think anti-Semite is one of them.

 

 

 

Noticing truth requires noticing all truth, not just convenient truth. The late Robert Novak and former Wisconsin Senator Russ Feingold both did just about everything they could to keep the US out of Iraq. But in the end, what Einstein called the "rabid nationalism" of the "re-conquer the Promised Land" crowd swamped truth, got 4k killed, 40k wounded, the US out a trillion dollars, all for intentional lies so that one sold out sub human of a "US" President could get re-elected, unlike his daddy, with money and favorable media coverage from a FOREIGN LOBBY.

[truth on hold]

"No discussion of how the Lobby operates would be complete without examining one of its most powerful weapons: the charge of anti‐Semitism. Anyone who criticizes Israeli actions or says that pro‐Israel groups have significant influence over U.S. Middle East policy—an influence that AIPAC celebrates—stands a good chance of getting labeled an anti‐Semite. In fact, anyone who says that there is an Israel Lobby runs the risk of being charged with anti‐Semitism, even though the Israeli media themselves refer to America’s “Jewish Lobby.” In effect, the Lobby boasts of its own power and then attacks anyone who calls attention to it. This tactic is very effective, because anti‐Semitism is loathsome and no responsible person wants to be accused of it."

[DC Tom]

"No discussion of how the Lobby operates would be complete without examining one of its most powerful weapons: the charge of anti‐Semitism. Anyone who criticizes Israeli actions or says that pro‐Israel groups have significant influence over U.S. Middle East policy—an influence that AIPAC celebrates—stands a good chance of getting labeled an anti‐Semite. In fact, anyone who says that there is an Israel Lobby runs the risk of being charged with anti‐Semitism, even though the Israeli media themselves refer to America’s “Jewish Lobby.” In effect, the Lobby boasts of its own power and then attacks anyone who calls attention to it. This tactic is very effective, because anti‐Semitism is loathsome and no responsible person wants to be accused of it."

 

Or you're just an anti-Semite.

[truth on hold]

Quote is from the Harvard and U of Chicago professors. They go onto to say some highly disturbing things which take place in academia.

 

- The Lobby also monitors what professors write and teach. In September 2002, for example, Martin Kramer and Daniel Pipes, two passionately pro‐Israel neoconservatives, established a website (Campus Watch) that posted dossiers on suspect academics and encouraged students to report comments or behavior that might be considered hostile to Israel.

 

- Groups in the Lobby also direct their fire at particular professors and the universities that hire them ... Columbia University, which had the late Palestinian scholar Edward Said on its faculty, has been a frequent target of pro‐Israel forces. A classic illustration of the effort to police academia occurred in late 2004, when the “David Project” produced a propaganda film alleging that faculty in Columbia University’s Middle East studies program were anti‐Semitic and were intimidating Jewish students who defended Israel. Columbia was raked over the coals in pro‐Israel circles, but a faculty committee assigned to investigate the charges found no evidence of anti‐Semitism and the only incident worth noting was the possibility that one professor had “responded heatedly” to a student’s question. The committee also discovered that the accused professors had been the target of an overt intimidation campaign.

 

- Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of this campaign to eliminate criticism of Israel from college campuses is the effort by Jewish groups to push Congress to establish mechanisms that monitor what professors say about Israel. Schools judged to have an anti‐Israel bias would be denied Federal funding.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack

[Jim in Anchorage]

I agree.

 

But it's not going to stop me, because frankly I think Dexter's just !@#$ing around, and I don't take him at all seriously.

I don't read it that way. Studying and analyzing the change in Charlton Heston's hair color before and after going to the mountain reeks of a long brewing obsession.

[ieatcrayonz]

"No discussion of how the Lobby operates would be complete without examining one of its most powerful weapons: the charge of anti‐Semitism. Anyone who criticizes Israeli actions or says that pro‐Israel groups have significant influence over U.S. Middle East policy—an influence that AIPAC celebrates—stands a good chance of getting labeled an anti‐Semite. In fact, anyone who says that there is an Israel Lobby runs the risk of being charged with anti‐Semitism, even though the Israeli media themselves refer to America’s “Jewish Lobby.” In effect, the Lobby boasts of its own power and then attacks anyone who calls attention to it. This tactic is very effective, because anti‐Semitism is loathsome and no responsible person wants to be accused of it."

Wow. Convincing. I wonder why women/blacks/catholics/gays/illegal aliens/cross dressers/canadians/pro-life/pro-choice and other minorities don't use tactics like this.

[....lybob]

What amazes me about our politicians isn't that they are whores but that they are such cheap whores- the Chinese should stop buying out treasury bonds which decline in value and buy our politicians who as an asset class return about $1,000 dollars for every dollar spent.

 

of course China does not share the special privileges that Israel gets.

 

S.C. : Do you think that other countries have their equivalent of AIPAC?

 

Jeffrey Blankfort : AIPAC is very unusual because while it is a registered lobby for Israel, it does not have to register as a foreign lobby. And that gives it a unique situation in the country. In every hearing in the Congress that involves Middle East issues, you have staff members of AIPAC sitting in these committee hearings. No other lobbies, foreign lobbies, have this privilege. And they also write the legislation that Congress passes regarding the Middle East. For example, the recent Syrian Accountability and Lebanese Sovereignty Restoration Act, which was passed a couple of years ago and which lead to what we see in Lebanon and Syria today was written by AIPAC which later bragged about it. It is not a secret. The only people that pretend they don't know it is the Left. It's on AIPAC's website, it is in their publications. AIPAC also provides interns – young, bright Jewish college students to work in the offices of members of Congress. They go to a member of Congress and say: "We have this young person who is interested in working on Capitol Hill, they will come one year and they will work in your office." No member of Congress is about to refuse a volunteer.

link

Edited March 23, 2011 by ....lybob

[truth on hold]

On a related point, how stupid is this: US is running a huge annual deficit which means to keep dishing out $9 billion in foreign aid every year (3rd of which goes to Israel), they need to borrow it from China.