Fezmid Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Best thing is that "conservatives" believe that everything is perfect for the middle-class and that unions are no longer necessary. HILARIOUS!! Yes, name calling is my MO. Stay a little while and you'll notice that my name calling here and there is nothing compared to what other people do. Again, you are right... I know nothing about unions. I just work for an International Union. You will do well in this forum, assume the other person doesn't know the subject because they don't agree with you. Examples of Repubicans against OSHA: The bill was being debated in the House at deadline. Returning to 2004 levels is "getting rid of OSHA?" Or maybe, just maybe, OSHA is bloated like most of the rest of government and we're trying to shrink things down so that we're not trillions in debt? Maybe if it said 1974 levels, it'd have more merit. But 2004? Really? I bet this is where you call me an idiot for not thinking like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 pBills, what is your job?! Why are you so bent on this whole Union thing?!? Also, this thread is getting out of control. Non-union management being similar to the whoring out of children for $.50?! Republicans want to hurt people? Good lord. This is now the thread for the drastic stereo type. Returning to 2004 levels is "getting rid of OSHA?" Or maybe, just maybe, OSHA is bloated like most of the rest of government and we're trying to shrink things down so that we're not trillions in debt? Maybe if it said 1974 levels, it'd have more merit. But 2004? Really? I bet this is where you call me an idiot for not thinking like you. Data and more data. It is ok, stuff like that means nothing to him. Besides, most of that is because there are now so many people working for Unions - yup that's why there are so few injuries now. Plus, Obama is in office not that evil George Bush. If he would have found this information he might have been able to make a point and not look like he just speaks out his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Returning to 2004 levels is "getting rid of OSHA?" Or maybe, just maybe, OSHA is bloated like most of the rest of government and we're trying to shrink things down so that we're not trillions in debt? Maybe if it said 1974 levels, it'd have more merit. But 2004? Really? I bet this is where you call me an idiot for not thinking like you. I'm still trying to figure out when the unions became the guarantors of the middle class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Scott Walker murdered a union worker! http://www.theblaze.com/stories/depressed-wis-teacher-commits-suicide-unions-blame-gov-scott-walker/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Scott Walker murdered a union worker! http://www.theblaze.com/stories/depressed-wis-teacher-commits-suicide-unions-blame-gov-scott-walker/ I blame Bush and Reagan tax cuts on the rich... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 (edited) Scott Walker murdered a union worker! http://www.theblaze.com/stories/depressed-wis-teacher-commits-suicide-unions-blame-gov-scott-walker/ On a completely unrelated side-note... She was an amazing person, says the Rev. Terry Larson... When I'm gone, and the papers come to interview you people about who I was, no cliches like this, please. I'd rather you got creative with it ("He taught me a lot about the special kind of love a man can share with his house plants, and he ended all his sentences with 'in accordance with the prophecy.'...really, he made me vaguely uncomfortable."), but if you have to, just say "He was a ****head, I'm glad he's gone." Edited March 20, 2011 by DC Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 (edited) Pretty much true since Milton Friedman became the guru of modern business Thus you cannot appeal to people who follow this business philosophy (most) on a morale or human level- you can only effect change by changing their profitability equation. I love me some Milton Friedman! Even though what you just posted is a pile of garbage that was mischaracterized from another piece of garbage that you obviously follow. It's not that managers don't value their workers it's that they only value them as a commodity- so workers are not paid on their productivity but on the scarcity of their skill set. In this world view it would be perfectly ethical to go to a third world country and pay a young girl 50 cents for a sex act or have people working in conditions that are negatively effecting their health for 15cents a hour as long as they are not coercing labor, Because the market says as long as everyone has a choice it's fair, even if it is a choice between doing degrading or dangerous work for subsistence wages or going without food, clothes, water or shelter. Businesses in this point at time are looking for places with the lowest wages, and the least environmental and health regulations- this is only modified by limitations in infrastructure, worker skill set, and social stability. Exiled from Illinois, is that you? Which are attacked by the right all the time- minimum wage, time and a half overtime, OSHA regulations, fair hiring practices, have all been attacked by different right-wing politicians. They have been unsuccessful so far but maybe it's smart not to let unions who Krugman calls to disappear. Yet most "middle-class" Americans vote for Conservatives. How could that be? Edited March 20, 2011 by Magox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Yet most "middle-class" Americans vote for Conservatives. How could that be? The same reason a lot of innocent people end up in jail, the naive belief that truth will triumph over slick presentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Best thing is that "conservatives" believe that everything is perfect for the middle-class. No one has made a statement even resembling that remark. Looking at it from the 30,000 foot view, unions do little more than ensure their continued existence while helping eliminate the middle class. I don't expect you to understand this because you've never been able to look at anything outside of your tiny world. Love it. Because people have a different stance they don't understand what's going on. HAHAHAHA!! Pretty much. Most people don't understand the butterfly affect of the graft/corruption that is the politician/public employee union relationship. You certainly don't. Coincidence that this is going on in other States where Republicans are Governors. Nope. That's generally the way revolutions work. It starts in one place and continues when successes are seen. Democrats refuse to hold unions or their fellow politicians in check, which is why "nuclear options" are pretty much the only thing left in consideration. Democrats in Illinois changed pensions last year, but it was the equivalent of putting a bandaid on a brain tumor - another failed effort to kick the can down the road a little further. They compounded the mistake by raising taxes yet again. That's going to cause further private flight to surrounding states, which will make the pension problem even worse going forward. The country is broke. At the state level, one of the major reasons is because liberals and public employee unions negotiated deals that taxpayers can't afford. We've only hit the tip of that iceberg because the boomers are just starting to retire. It's going to get much worse and all the sound bytes and slogans aren't going to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Are you stupid? You asked for reasons on why unions are needed... what they fight for. Again... FAIR WAGES, BENEFITS AND SAFE WORKING CONDITIONS. Understand? Why do a vast majority of the 88% of non-union workers have fair wages, benefits and safe working conditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) The funny thing about unions in this capacity is that they are just too damn selfish and stupid to realize that taking actions -- like a boycott -- that put middle class Americans out of work does nothing to advance their message. Unions have to undertand that regardless of what THEY have convinced themselves, many people aren't stupid. When a bank has to lay off 300 middle class administative people because of the union actions, the union's rallying cry that the current government hates the middle class is proven to be the empty, whiny, progressive menstrual babbling that is one of the main reasons so few people belong to unions any more. This, or something pretty similar, is going to be the takeaway from this for 80% of Americans, unless somebody in the union's political office gets off their ass and rights the ship. They are being politically foolish, and not taking the current political realities into account. You might want to ask him what particular expertise he has on labor unions too. See if he'll come up with anything. The only thing I've seen him good at is taking shots at people and then running away to hide. ...lybob cannot hang with anyone on this board. While he is a relative rookie, there is little we have seen that is likely to change this status. I guess you haven't visited the dark side too often, otherwise you would know this board's truism. The difference is: some of us don't know they are misrepresenting things some of us aren't capable of misrepresenting things some of us purposely misrepresent things because they are hacks and, some of us purposely misrepresent things because it's highly entertaining to watch a poster, currently arguing against you struggle, and not realize that you are purposely giving them ways to attack your position, but they can't, because they actually don't know the issue at all and/or they are an unmitigated moron. By the way most of the people on this board are just right of Attila the Hun. They would stab their mother in the back, step on a baby and kill a kitten if it meant Republican ideals are being followed. Motto is: F the worker (or pissant as one moron called employees), protect the wealthy (top talent) at all costs. Even if their poor decisions helped F over this country. How is bankrupting a state, by demanding money the state cannot pay unless the economy is booming... ...an example of not F ing over the country? Even if we were to believe all your false assertions about corporations, how does their bad behavior justify the bad behavior of the unions? Moreover, shouldn't we be about making sure NOBODY gets away with bad behavior? Why are you criticizing(dubiously at best) one set of behavior, and rationalizing another? pBills, what is your job?! Why are you so bent on this whole Union thing?!? Unless I am mistaken, pBills is lawyer. IIRC, and there's no way I am doing a post search, he does disability/SSI, or something like that, and I seem to recall that he definitely has a horse in this race professionally. So, yeah, your concerns about pBills objectivity, and credibility, are more than likely justified. I'm not saying that pBills isn't allowed to look out for his interests. We all must. I have no problem with it, as long as pBills doesn't pretend that he has no personal stake in the game. Edited March 22, 2011 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 No, last I checked this is purely a Wisconsin thing. Unless I slept during the part of government class that said, "Lawmakers in one state can actually write laws for other states as well." Just saying... Which state was the first to grant public sector collective bargaining? Was it WI? So yes, it can "snowball" the other way. Come on people, save the black and white issues for a dolt like DCTom... Mr. Spock wants a little more out-of the box thinking from the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Just saying... Which state was the first to grant public sector collective bargaining? Was it WI? So yes, it can "snowball" the other way. Come on people, save the black and white issues for a dolt like DCTom... Mr. Spock wants a little more out-of the box thinking from the others. So you're saying since Wisconsin was first to grant the privs, they should also be the first to remove them? Unless I am mistaken, pBills is lawyer. IIRC, I would think that a lawyer should be able to provide arguments to make a point without resorting to name calling.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Just heard from a teacher friend that some WNY schools are closed today. I asked if it was a snow day and she said no. Teachers are "complaining" (not sure if that means they're striking or all calling in sick) that they're working too many days in regard to their contract. How can someone who works 10 months out of the year complain about working too many days? And then take another day off. And of course this is a paid day off I'm assuming. So the kids are not learning anythingn today. Yup, it's all about the children isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Just saying... Which state was the first to grant public sector collective bargaining? Was it WI? So yes, it can "snowball" the other way. Come on people, save the black and white issues for a dolt like DCTom... Mr. Spock wants a little more out-of the box thinking from the others. Why do you always have to bring race into things? We're talking about evil unions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Why do you always have to bring race into things? We're talking about evil unions here. Where is crayonz and what have you done with him? I got it, he is your sex slave now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Where is crayonz and what have you done with him? I got it, he is your sex slave now. What is it like to wake up after a lobotomy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 What is it like to wake up after a lobotomy? It's kind of like waking up after crushing a fifth of rail Tequila. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 It's kind of like waking up after crushing a fifth of rail Tequila. Uh, do you have experience with both in order to make a comparison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Why do a vast majority of the 88% of non-union workers have fair wages, benefits and safe working conditions? Oh! Oh! Mr. Kotter... Oh! Oh! Mr. Kotter pick me! Because the 12% union members and the respect and unity that their union predecessors fought for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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