Wisconsin Judge temporarily blocks Walker bill

[Chef Jim]

How about you give me examples where it doesn't happen? Hell look at all of the Labor Violation Walmart had years ago. I also just stated another reason above within the transportation industry.

 

Nice try skippy. You're the one saying unions are needed and I want examples of horrible working conditions that a union would take care of. Hell I worked in the restaurant industry for years and the only ones typically working more than 8 hours a day was management.

[Rob's House]

Pretty much true since Milton Friedman became the guru of modern business

Seriously Bob? Perhaps you should watch the debates between Friedman and Galbraith (if you're capable pf at least a minimal level of objectivity) and get back to me. This business of claiming anyone who doesn't want the feds to play the role of protector is evil and mean spirtited is !@#$ing gay.

[pBills]

Never said it wasn't fair or right, but the axe goes both ways...that was my point. On the news you see the major headlines are that Local BFA 414314 supports Joe Johnson...not CEO of BOA supports Cindy Whoo. Of course it goes both ways, I find it funny that Republicans B word so much about it with comments like "Unions are supporting those who they negotiate with". First off, not always true. Unions also support those who work hard for safe working environments and to make industries stronger. Yet, it's ok for Republicans to offer huge corporate tax breaks and protect the tax rates of the uber wealthy.

 

 

And there are always ways around it, when there is money involved their is always a way around it. 10,000 union members can support a campaign just as much as 100 exectuvives at a corportation. Again, the axe goes both ways.

 

 

 

No, lets simply realize that our education system is failing and their is only so many ways you can point the finger before it falls on the teachers themselves. Whether it is the training they are getting or the No Child Left Behind crap, somewhere along the way teachers are failing us and ultimately it comes down to them. They are the last stop when it comes to educating our children and if what they are being told to do is not right for the children then they need to do something about that and not worry about what they are being paid to do. Since it is their passion then financial compensation should not be a factor, right?

 

Schools and teachers get more from corporate donations then Unions. Box Tops for Education, kick-backs on computers and equipment, school buses, etc. Axe...both...ways. SOOOO, educational system is failing yet we should make cuts in education like Wisconsin, upwards of $900,000? No,we should invest in our schools and teachers. Training in many schools has been completely cut. Sad on many levels, especially when it comes to working with kids with autism and other special needs. Ultimately it's the teachers fault? Come on,how about funding, poor learning environment at home (parents not investing the time to work with their kids), not enough books or supplies to go around. Yeah, that's all the teachers fault. I have a passion for what I do, which is why I love my career, when I have to purchase something that benefits who I work for I work to compensated... teachers do not have that avenue to go down. In regards to corporations donating,yes things like box tops are great. However, corporations can be doing more. After all, it's their product they are writing off.

 

 

The Unions place in this economny right now should be one thing = ensuring that people are fairly compensated for what they do instead of trying to get the most they can out of the shallow well of Government. Gov does need fixing but it is not the Union who should demand it or spurn it. When the Union can convince me that the guy who drives a snow plow earns his $200,000 in OT a year more so then the teacher who makes $35,000 then maybe I will change my tune. A teacher is not a glam job but it surely is not hard in the structure we have in this country. A structure that is failing our children. Unions are doing exactly that - working for fair wages, benefits and a safe working environment. Of course they always reach for more, that's part of negotiating - it's on the other side to say that's to much and why. If you or any other person doesn't like a bus driver or snow plow driver earning money in OT has a problem with it. Simple solution - only offer up to a certain amount of OT. Letting someone go above and beyond what may hurt a budget - is the fault of bad management. What about a CEO that makes $28,000,000 per year not including bonuses even AFTER their company received a taxpayer bailout?

 

Working at UPS for 2 years I saw the power of the Union protect people coming to work high and endangering myself. I saw people run over boxes without a care endangering the product. I spoke with Union leaders who insisted that these incidents were something I should not worry about because I need to worry about the job I do and not about other Union members. I guess worrying about my personal safety and the safety of the company comes second @ UPS' Union.

As far as people coming to this country that you have seen personally become victims...they made their choices and if they cannot cut it then they can starve and live on the streets. Or, they can go back to their country. That's reality, that's life. Unions protect workers having due process before being fired. Simple as that, if a worker is doing something wrong, document everything and present the case for him/her to be suspended or fired. Simple as that. If union officials are telling you to avoid or ignore they should be reprimanded for those actions. I love your statements, take it or go back to the country they came from OR you made the choice to work there, deal with it OR starve and live on the streets. What heartless, dumb f'ing statements. I hope that if you and yours ever land homeless and living on the streets someone comes up to you and says you basically deserved it. Moron.

 

 

I have worked many jobs @ 90 hours a week that were not Union and loved it. I got paid good. How is it unfair? They have a job. No where on this countries most famous documents does it say that someone should be promised benefits and anything beyond minimum wage (which is flawed!). We have documents that are designed to provide safe working enviroments and we need to live up to them. Unfortunately, the Union feels it is their job to make sure these standards are met...and that is a major problem. How is working 90 hours unfair... not receiving OT, being forced to do that even though working those hours puts their life and others in jeopardy (transportation industry and others). No where on our countries famous documents does it say screw over the workers so that management can make more money either. If the union does not work hard to make sure that companies live up to Labor Laws who will? Not sure how that is a problem. Again, you are just hoping that companies will do the right thing. Not every person running a company has great moral standards...and yes, that goes for some union officials as well.

 

Nice try skippy. You're the one saying unions are needed and I want examples of horrible working conditions that a union would take care of. Hell I worked in the restaurant industry for years and the only ones typically working more than 8 hours a day was management.

 

 

Skippy? Wow, your reference is the restaurant industry. Please.

 

How about transportation industries (drivers driving having extremely long hours), shipping industries/ maritime and land based (unsafe areas, extremely long hours - leads to dangerous conditions, construction industry, etc., etc. Remove those rose colored glasses.

Edited March 19, 2011 by pBills

[Fezmid]

How about you give me examples where it doesn't happen?

I worked at K-Mart in high school. No violations that i saw. I worked for the University of Minnesota's computer labs. No violations that I saw. I worked for the University of Minnesota's super computer lab. No violations that I saw. I've worked for three corporations since graduation. No violations that I saw.

 

Happy?

 

Regardless, since you're talking about unsafe work conditions and inhumane work hours, what type of "unsafe working conditions" and "90 hour workweeks" are teachers experiencing that they need a union....?

 

I guess you haven't visited the dark side too often, otherwise you would know this board's truism.

 

Yeah, only been coming here due to the WI stuff.

[pBills]

I worked at K-Mart in high school. No violations that i saw. I worked for the University of Minnesota's computer labs. No violations that I saw. I worked for the University of Minnesota's super computer lab. No violations that I saw. I've worked for three corporations since graduation. No violations that I saw.

 

Happy?

 

Regardless, since you're talking about unsafe work conditions and inhumane work hours, what type of "unsafe working conditions" and "90 hour workweeks" are teachers experiencing that they need a union....?

 

 

 

Yeah, only been coming here due to the WI stuff.

 

 

 

First off, I didn't say it happens in every freakin' company. BUT, it does happen. And wow, those super computer labs didn't have violations? Tool. It's not always about safe working conditions, that can be part of what is discussed during the bargaining process. Teachers want fair wages and benefits. Simple as that. And most teachers I know work long hours during the week and weekend.

 

By the way most of the people on this board are just right of Attila the Hun. They would stab their mother in the back, step on a baby and kill a kitten if it meant Republican ideals are being followed. Motto is: F the worker (or pissant as one moron called employees), protect the wealthy (top talent) at all costs. Even if their poor decisions helped F over this country.

Edited March 19, 2011 by pBills

[Fezmid]

First off, I didn't say it happens in every freakin' company. BUT, it does happen. And wow, those super computer labs didn't have violations? Tool. It's not always about safe working conditions, that can be part of what is discussed during the bargaining process. Teachers want fair wages and benefits. Simple as that. And most teachers I know work long hours during the week and weekend.

 

By the way most of the people on this board are just right of Attila the Hun. They would stab their mother in the back, step on a baby and kill a kitten if it meant Republican ideals are being followed. Motto is: F the worker (or pissant as one moron called employees), protect the wealthy (top talent) at all costs. Even if their poor decisions helped F over this country.

 

So you asked for examples of where bad things don't happen, and then you dismiss it when i point them out....? Ummm....

 

Your main examples of why we "need" unions was unsafe/unfair labor practices, but now you're back to simple wages and benefits. Why not let the free market work for wages and benefits like they do for the private sector?

[pBills]

So you asked for examples of where bad things don't happen, and then you dismiss it when i point them out....? Ummm....

 

Your main examples of why we "need" unions was unsafe/unfair labor practices, but now you're back to simple wages and benefits. Why not let the free market work for wages and benefits like they do for the private sector?

 

 

Go back and read... I said I wanted valid reasons on why unions are no longer needed. I have also said MANY TIMES, that unions fight for FAIR WAGES, BENEFITS AND SAFE WORKING CONDITIONS. I guess you had a hard time understanding that, your head must have been in the cloud (sorry bad IT joke with all of your talk about computer labs).

 

Why not let the free market dictate wages and benefits... because the management doesn't always value the work that people do.

[Chef Jim]

Skippy? Wow, your reference is the restaurant industry. Please.

 

How about transportation industries (drivers driving having extremely long hours), shipping industries/ maritime and land based (unsafe areas, extremely long hours - leads to dangerous conditions, construction industry, etc., etc. Remove those rose colored glasses.

 

Do you know why drivers work long hours? Do you know whose idea it is for them to work long hours? It's funny the industries you picked are heavily unionized. I think there are far more non-union industries that treat their workers fairly. But if that were not the case than why is 93% of the population NOT in a union?

 

. because the management doesn't always value the work that people do.

 

I think management know where it would be if we didn't value our employees.

[pBills]

Do you know why drivers work long hours? Do you know whose idea it is for them to work long hours? It's funny the industries you picked are heavily unionized. I think there are far more non-union industries that treat their workers fairly. But if that were not the case than why is 93% of the population NOT in a union? Do you know that there are laws that keep drivers from working long hours for their safety and as well as others? We are talking about unions, hence mentioning unionized areas. The percentage of workers unionized is actually 11.9%, roughly 14 million people. Just wanted to let you know that.

 

 

 

I think management know where it would be if we didn't value our employees. Yes, management ALWAYS values it's employees. HAHAHAHAHA!! Want to buy a bridge?

[Chef Jim]

Oh I'm sorry. So 88% of workers in the US are NOT unionized yet there still is not rampant worker abuse. Why is that? And you know that with 24/7 news, blogs, internet, etc that we'd know about it if there was. I'm not saying that some companies don't take advantage of their workers but for the most part they don't. Most understand that without happy employees they would not be in business. There are many strictly enforced labor laws that make unions unnecessary.

[pBills]

Oh I'm sorry. So 88% of workers in the US are NOT unionized yet there still is not rampant worker abuse. Why is that? And you know that with 24/7 news, blogs, internet, etc that we'd know about it if there was. I'm not saying that some companies don't take advantage of their workers but for the most part they don't. Most understand that without happy employees they would not be in business. There are many strictly enforced labor laws that make unions unnecessary.

 

 

Did I ever use the word rampant? Ummm no. Yet workplace issues DO HAPPEN. Many do understand that they need to keep employees happy, many also don't give a crap. You keep going to back to Labor Laws... strictly enforced? Not buying that.

[boyst]

Too much to go back and reply to...

The laws regulating drivers hours are not from Union, they're not governed by Unions. They are regulated by the states and fed government. Oddly, I have hardly ever met a trucker that doesn't go over his hours or keep two books. I've worked more shipping and receiving jobs then probably most people here and have never seen a trucker who didn't cheat for his own gain. Whether running errands in their own truck or stealing they cheat. Does it make it right? No. Would a Union change that? No. Would better regulation change that? Yes. But, they'd find another way to cheat.

 

Yes, we need to axe probably most of the teachers in this country and overhaul the entire thing. When something is failing and you let it limp along for decades it develops rot and that's what our education system is...rotten. A personal example is that when I took over full production of my farm I had 37 head. Over two years I slowed things down, did not breed for two seasons (losing lots of money) and assessing my cattle. I went down to less then 8. Then, I sought the best genetics and now have a much stronger herd. The 4 momma cows I kept get by and you can clearly see they are something of old.

 

We have brave teachers out there every day fighting paper cuts and maybe a kid spilling glitter on their shirts...or even a tragedy like glue or barf. Do not give me that whole Columbine crap. That'd be like me saying the Tyson foods shooter or such. You cannot take in to account nutjobs like that...

 

Working at UPS and an A&P store I saw as many "violations" as I did at any other job. I saw more stoners per capita at UPS and more yentas at the supermarket abusing the union system. I had Union reps telling me at UPS several times a day that I do not have to work as hard as I did and I should slow down so I can fit in with the team better and more work will get done. How is that a part of business? By team I mean that they wanted me to slow down so 3 people could do the job and not just me because according to the *wink*wink* hiring policy they need to use all of their man hours they can get OT and bring on more employees to make the union stronger. They would silently condemn the OT while whispering to get it.

 

pBills, please tell us about your life? What is it you do for a living, what is your background? What is it that makes you put the skirt and pompoms on for the union team? It is a bit over the top...

[....lybob]

It's not that managers don't value their workers it's that they only value them as a commodity- so workers are not paid on their productivity but on the scarcity of their skill set. In this world view it would be perfectly ethical to go to a third world country and pay a young girl 50 cents for a sex act or have people working in conditions that are negatively effecting their health for 15cents a hour as long as they are not coercing labor, Because the market says as long as everyone has a choice it's fair, even if it is a choice between doing degrading or dangerous work for subsistence wages or going without food, clothes, water or shelter. Businesses in this point at time are looking for places with the lowest wages, and the least environmental and health regulations- this is only modified by limitations in infrastructure, worker skill set, and social stability.

[....lybob]

Oh I'm sorry. So 88% of workers in the US are NOT unionized yet there still is not rampant worker abuse. Why is that? And you know that with 24/7 news, blogs, internet, etc that we'd know about it if there was. I'm not saying that some companies don't take advantage of their workers but for the most part they don't. Most understand that without happy employees they would not be in business. There are many strictly enforced labor laws that make unions unnecessary.

Which are attacked by the right all the time- minimum wage, time and a half overtime, OSHA regulations, fair hiring practices, have all been attacked by different right-wing politicians. They have been unsuccessful so far but maybe it's smart not to let unions who Krugman calls

one of the few influential players in our political system representing the interests of middle- and working-class Americans, as opposed to the wealthy

to disappear.

[Alaska Darin]

There's no denying that union membership has fallen to 11.9% in Wisconsin and around the country. However, polls have also shown that over 60% support the union and collective bargaining. What does that tell you? Maybe that Republicans are reaching a bit to far? Did you also know that over 20,000 Wisconsinites have joined Working America?

It tells me that most Americans still don't understand the issues and are eating up everything the soundbyte media feeds them. More of the same.

[Fezmid]

Go back and read... I said I wanted valid reasons on why unions are no longer needed. I have also said MANY TIMES, that unions fight for FAIR WAGES, BENEFITS AND SAFE WORKING CONDITIONS. I guess you had a hard time understanding that, your head must have been in the cloud (sorry bad IT joke with all of your talk about computer labs).

 

Why not let the free market dictate wages and benefits... because the management doesn't always value the work that people do.

 

You have no reasons. That's what I thought, just wanted to clarify.

 

Continue on with your quarter-truths that make no sense to people with a 3rd grade education.

[pBills]

It tells me that most Americans still don't understand the issues and are eating up everything the soundbyte media feeds them. More of the same.

 

 

Love it. Because people have a different stance they don't understand what's going on. HAHAHAHA!! Coincidence that this is going on in other States where Republicans are Governors. Nope.

 

You have no reasons. That's what I thought, just wanted to clarify.

 

Continue on with your quarter-truths that make no sense to people with a 3rd grade education.

 

 

Are you stupid? You asked for reasons on why unions are needed... what they fight for. Again... FAIR WAGES, BENEFITS AND SAFE WORKING CONDITIONS. Understand?

 

My quarter truths... hahahaha. I guess that is equal to you blindly following what the right says. Good job.

 

Which are attacked by the right all the time- minimum wage, time and a half overtime, OSHA regulations, fair hiring practices, have all been attacked by different right-wing politicians. They have been unsuccessful so far but maybe it's smart not to let unions who Krugman calls to disappear.

 

:thumbsup:

[Fezmid]

Love it. Because people have a different stance they don't understand what's going on. HAHAHAHA!!

And yet that's what you keep saying here - that conservatives just don't understand the plight of the poor union workers. Why, if the unions go away, then 10% of the population will have to.... Join the other 90%?

 

And I notice you like to call people name's like "tool" and "stupid." Since, like I said, I'm new to this forum - is that your normal MO for trying to convey your opinion? Or do you just not know anything about this topic so have to resort to name calling?

 

Which are attacked by the right all the time- minimum wage, time and a half overtime, OSHA regulations, fair hiring practices, have all been attacked by different right-wing politicians. They have been unsuccessful so far but maybe it's smart not to let unions who Krugman calls to disappear.

 

Really? Can you give some examples of anyone trying to repeal OSHA? The only thing I could find on the topic was a vague ergonomics section that was removed back in 2001.

[pBills]

And yet that's what you keep saying here - that conservatives just don't understand the plight of the poor union workers. Why, if the unions go away, then 10% of the population will have to.... Join the other 90%?

 

And I notice you like to call people name's like "tool" and "stupid." Since, like I said, I'm new to this forum - is that your normal MO for trying to convey your opinion? Or do you just not know anything about this topic so have to resort to name calling?

 

 

 

Really? Can you give some examples of anyone trying to repeal OSHA? The only thing I could find on the topic was a vague ergonomics section that was removed back in 2001.

 

 

Best thing is that "conservatives" believe that everything is perfect for the middle-class and that unions are no longer necessary. HILARIOUS!!

 

Yes, name calling is my MO. Stay a little while and you'll notice that my name calling here and there is nothing compared to what other people do. Again, you are right... I know nothing about unions. I just work for an International Union. You will do well in this forum, assume the other person doesn't know the subject because they don't agree with you.

 

Examples of Repubicans against OSHA:

 

Solis: Republican budget plan may result in ‘more injuries’

 

 

Washington – A Republican-backed budget plan with deep cuts to OSHA could lead to more workplace injuries and fewer inspections and compliance assistance, Secretary of Labor Hilda L. Solis warned Congress on Feb. 16. The continuing resolution bill (H.R. 1) (.pdf file) would fund the federal government for the rest of fiscal year 2011. The bill would return OSHA funding to 2004 levels by making $99 million in cuts (.pdf file) to initiatives such as safety and health standards development, state programs, and enforcement.

 

The proposal differs from the Obama administration’s 2012 budget, which would increase OSHA funding by nearly $25 million above 2010 levels.

 

Testifying before the House Education and the Workforce Committee, Solis said the GOP plan would delay promulgating new standards, result in about 18,000 fewer workplace safety inspections and possibly lead to the layoffs of several recent OSHA hires, including 200 inspectors.

 

When asked what this would mean for the public, Solis said there “may be more injuries taking place” at worksites, which could lead to additional costs for businesses and society as a whole. The GOP budget also could eliminate the OSHA website, which Solis said millions use for workplace safety assistance.

Edited March 19, 2011 by pBills

[....lybob]

And yet that's what you keep saying here - that conservatives just don't understand the plight of the poor union workers. Why, if the unions go away, then 10% of the population will have to.... Join the other 90%?

 

And I notice you like to call people name's like "tool" and "stupid." Since, like I said, I'm new to this forum - is that your normal MO for trying to convey your opinion? Or do you just not know anything about this topic so have to resort to name calling?

 

 

 

Really? Can you give some examples of anyone trying to repeal OSHA? The only thing I could find on the topic was a vague ergonomics section that was removed back in 2001.

 

Congress has taken a different approach...so-called OSHA reform legislation. The legislation introduced by Congressman Cass Ballenger of North Carolina would literally gut efforts to protect workers through enforcement and bring standard-setting to a halt. The bill is the wrong way to improve safety and health. If enacted it would result in safety and health becoming an optional, advisory service of government.