NoSaint Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Your assessment very much follows somewhat Mayak's ranking of players. Dareus is in his #1 spot. Subject to change of course. My leanings with our pick are Gabbert/Newton. More and more I get the sense that Gailey wants Newton. Just my intuition kicking in. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81eb95ea/Mayock-s-Top-16-prospects?module=HP_cp2 If cam passes all the tests I could see him being the pick, I just don't have the access it takes to make a real educated guess on a guy like him. Physically it's all there. I'm curious the breakdown of what he can do vs what he was asked to do (ie making reads primarily). Also I don't love the auburn coaches/program. I think it's hard to get a read on cam and fairley as I have a feeling a lot of the things that turn me off about their games/skillset/reputation come from their program and possibly not their abilities or personalities. Hard to say though without spending time with them like nix and gailey will.
truth on hold Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 There is a big misconception about the bench test being indicative of functional strength. The 225lb bench press is not a test of strength for lineman, it's really a test of muscular endurance. 225lbs is just not a lot of weight for players over 270lbs. For lineman, lifting 315lbs would be better test for strength. I'd be willing to gamble the guy who had the most reps at the combine would not have the highest 1-rep max bench of all the attendees. Back before the NFL Combine was all the rage, I witnessed a bench press challenge between 2 of my college friends, to see who could bench 225lbs the most times. One guy was a monster powerlifter who was pretty pudgy & could bench press over 450lbs, the other guy was just a regular muscular dude in good all-around shape who could max 350ish. Everybody assumed the bigger & stronger guy would win and laughed at the challenge. The big strong powerlifter only got it about 20x, while the other guy was around 25x. Obviously the guy who can bench press 450lbs was stronger, but his lifting endurance was sub-par. Was kind of thinking same thing. When you get into the 20+ reps category it's more about endurance than strength. You're obviously strong enough. Anyone know what Suh and McCoy did last year?
NoSaint Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Was kind of thinking same thing. When you get into the 20+ reps category it's more about endurance than strength. You're obviously strong enough. Anyone know what Suh and McCoy did last year? Don't quote but I want to say suh had 32 and McCoy 23 - I remember it being low 30s and low 20s and I'm pretty sure it was the 23-32 just being the same digits flipped that stuck it in my memory... Probably easily found
truth on hold Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Sound about right, I remember low reps was the knock on McCoy.
Green Lightning Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Yesterday, I posted a youtube clip of his LSU game this year and he literally did nothing in that game. Not only didn't he look like a #3 pick, he didn't look like a first rounder. He looked slow, lumbering and did not attack the ball carrier. Dareus has officially become the most overrated player in this draft. Officially? Really....why you must be that Quinn shill. Well I'll take the "gapfiller" over "untested only performs against scrub teams" Quinn anyday. Last I checked, we gave up yards on the ground by the acre.
JohnC Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 If cam passes all the tests I could see him being the pick, I just don't have the access it takes to make a real educated guess on a guy like him. Physically it's all there. I'm curious the breakdown of what he can do vs what he was asked to do (ie making reads primarily). Also I don't love the auburn coaches/program. I think it's hard to get a read on cam and fairley as I have a feeling a lot of the things that turn me off about their games/skillset/reputation come from their program and possibly not their abilities or personalities. Hard to say though without spending time with them like nix and gailey will. Chan Gailey has a son who either is attending or has recently attended Auburn. He recently made the comment that those people associated with the school and the area speak highly of Newton as a person. Nix certainly knows a lot of people in that region who are tuned in to the program. So they should be able to get a good reading on Newton as a player and person. Unless Carolina takes Newton or the Vikings leap ahead of the Bills (some rumblings that they are also eyeing Newton) I get the sense that the Bills will take him. For sure, there will be a lot of lamentations coming from this board. You can be guaranteed that I won't be one of the those doing the wailing.
bobobonators Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) 225x 24 reps at the combine is not very impressive for a DT. I know its not the only thing you look at but you have to be concerned when the dude weighs over 300 lbs is going up against multiple blockers and has a pretty weak effort here. I just dont want to see the guy getting pushed around like a ragdoll, especially in a 3-4 where alot more would be asked of him. Ragdoll? Have you seen this guy? his reps don't really bother me that much..how much strength does he have in his core/lower body? How well is he positioned to maximize leverage? How does he use his hands? Also, in Alabama, this guy was double teamed every game..that in itself is production EVERY GAME. As for taking plays off, I've seen a lot of elite players in my day take some plays off..though ideally I don't like it, it happens..but at the end of the day i'd rather get a player that gives 100% 90% of the time (if that makes sense) and puts up numbers in that 90% as opposed to a player giving 110% 100% of the time and not doing much b/c they simply lack the talent. Edited March 16, 2011 by bobobonators
bobobonators Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 03/15/2011 - Alabama Pro day: As I expected, Marcell Dareus and Mark Ingram did not disappoint Wednesday. The two studs from Alabama wowed the approximate 100 personnel folks in attendance at the Crimson Tide's pro day and did nothing to hurt their stock as potential early picks. In fact, you might say they elevated it. As for Dareus, he looked good in his field drills. To me, he's the real deal. He's a power player like Ndamukong Suh was last year. He could have that kind of impact, I think. All 32 teams were present, including John Elway and Brian Xanders of the Broncos, GM Tom Heckert of the Browns, GM Buddy Nix of the Bills, and defensive coordinator Ray Horton of the Cardinals. - Gil Brandt, NFL.com At this point, we'll really be lucky if he's even there at #3.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Have you ever seen Dareus being interviewed? It's not pretty. Those are things that will drop a player, especially one who's stats are less than stellar. Would you mind saying more about this?
NoSaint Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Would you mind saying more about this? there was an interview maybe a month or so ago -- it was transcribed poorly (included every ummmm or uhhhh typed out) which didnt help -- but more so he seemed to have no answer to even easy and expected questions. he had some weird answers too. if you search for the thread i dont think itll be hard to find. there were just more then a few answers that you would read and say "huh?"
ajzepp Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 there was an interview maybe a month or so ago -- it was transcribed poorly (included every ummmm or uhhhh typed out) which didnt help -- but more so he seemed to have no answer to even easy and expected questions. he had some weird answers too. if you search for the thread i dont think itll be hard to find. there were just more then a few answers that you would read and say "huh?" Yep, that article bothered me a little...another TBD'er said that they felt Dareus was the Dline equivalent of Big Mike Williams. He's sort of like a big kid who doesn't seem to properly transition to the adult game of the NFL. That has sort of stuck with me for some reason...if we do draft him, I hope he's the real deal...we desperately need our first pick to have a huge impact.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 225x 24 reps at the combine is not very impressive for a DT. I know its not the only thing you look at but you have to be concerned when the dude weighs over 300 lbs is going up against multiple blockers and has a pretty weak effort here. I just dont want to see the guy getting pushed around like a ragdoll, especially in a 3-4 where alot more would be asked of him. Don't sweat it, his game film is all you need to see that he is worth it. Trust me once John Gamble gets a hold of him his bench will go up.
NoSaint Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Yep, that article bothered me a little...another TBD'er said that they felt Dareus was the Dline equivalent of Big Mike Williams. He's sort of like a big kid who doesn't seem to properly transition to the adult game of the NFL. That has sort of stuck with me for some reason...if we do draft him, I hope he's the real deal...we desperately need our first pick to have a huge impact. it mightve been me that expressed that concern, i still like him but its probably the largest nagging concern i have. i do know i remember posting that there was some weird stuff coming out of the top bama prospects lately. terrance cody had some strange things in his bios about refusing to leave his room when he first got to campus and being very "scared child away at summer camp-esque" that you expect from a 6 year old not an 18 year old. i know transitions can be hard but it was bizzare descriptions. Andre smith didnt seem to have a solid head on his shoulders as far as adult thought and foresight into the future. for dareus to say he has been reaching out to his good friend andre smith for draft advice was mindboggling. talking about his favorite free time activity was watching cartoons reminded of some of the weird things that cody had in his past. like i said, i still have him at the top of the class but it is something to be aware of. i dunno, just a weird interview overall when you analyze it, and there have been more then a few of those coming out of top bama talents lately. heres the actual interview http://www.kffl.com/article.php/127200/
JohnC Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) it mightve been me that expressed that concern, i still like him but its probably the largest nagging concern i have. i do know i remember posting that there was some weird stuff coming out of the top bama prospects lately. terrance cody had some strange things in his bios about refusing to leave his room when he first got to campus and being very "scared child away at summer camp-esque" that you expect from a 6 year old not an 18 year old. i know transitions can be hard but it was bizzare descriptions. Andre smith didnt seem to have a solid head on his shoulders as far as adult thought and foresight into the future. for dareus to say he has been reaching out to his good friend andre smith for draft advice was mindboggling. talking about his favorite free time activity was watching cartoons reminded of some of the weird things that cody had in his past. like i said, i still have him at the top of the class but it is something to be aware of. i dunno, just a weird interview overall when you analyze it, and there have been more then a few of those coming out of top bama talents lately. heres the actual interview http://www.kffl.com/article.php/127200/ http://www.thefanhub.com/742/elsewhere/nfl/2011-nfl-draft-preview-marcell-dareus-profile.html The above link gives some insight into the hardshps and challenges he has had to endure at a very young age. From what I have read about him he is a good kid with a big heart. Sometimes things that we take for granted with respect to our family and upbringing are very foreign to those who have a less than favorable situation. I want to make sure you realize that I'm not criticizing you but make you aware that he is coming from some very difficult circumstances that would defeat most people if they were placed in a similar situation. Edited March 16, 2011 by JohnC
ajzepp Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) it mightve been me that expressed that concern, i still like him but its probably the largest nagging concern i have. i do know i remember posting that there was some weird stuff coming out of the top bama prospects lately. terrance cody had some strange things in his bios about refusing to leave his room when he first got to campus and being very "scared child away at summer camp-esque" that you expect from a 6 year old not an 18 year old. i know transitions can be hard but it was bizzare descriptions. Andre smith didnt seem to have a solid head on his shoulders as far as adult thought and foresight into the future. for dareus to say he has been reaching out to his good friend andre smith for draft advice was mindboggling. talking about his favorite free time activity was watching cartoons reminded of some of the weird things that cody had in his past. like i said, i still have him at the top of the class but it is something to be aware of. i dunno, just a weird interview overall when you analyze it, and there have been more then a few of those coming out of top bama talents lately. heres the actual interview http://www.kffl.com/article.php/127200/ Yeah, the interview was definitely a little odd...I'd be curious to know more about his work ethic. The more I read about how Torrell Troupe is just plain bringin' it in the gym trying to get ready for next year, the more I'm reminded how important solid work ethic is. When it comes down to hitting a few extra reps in the gym or watching cartoons, will Dareus be mature enough to put work first? How badly does he want to succeed? To what degree is he getting by on pure size and talent? We have a lot of dedicated, hard-working players on this team...we need to continue to foster that work ethic, not set off a lazy bomb right in the middle of it. I've seen Dareus play a fair bit, I just don't know much about his character. Edited March 16, 2011 by ajzepp
NoSaint Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah, the interview was definitely a little odd...I'd be curious to know more about his work ethic. The more I read about how Torrell Troupe is just plain bringin' it in the gym trying to get ready for next year, but more I'm reminded how important solid work ethic is. When it comes down to hitting a few extra reps in the gym or watching cartoons, will Dareus be mature enough to put work first? How badly does he want to succeed? To what degree is he getting by on pure size and talent? We have a lot of dedicated, hard-working players on this team...we need to continue to foster that work ethic, not set off a lazy bomb right in the middle of it. I've seen Dareus play a fair bit, I just don't know much about his character. my general assessment based on what ive read, heard, etc... is he has enough to be a professional, but nothing noteworthy. the fact we havent heard a lot good or bad probably indicates there arent many indictments or on the flip side people willing to vouch.... middle of the road is my guess. probably not the first in the gym, but not the first out either. just a shooting from the hip general impression but for some reason he strikes me as a guy that would go with the flow of the team - put him with hardworkers and he will follow, put him with slackers, and well... he would probably follow.
ajzepp Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 my general assessment based on what ive read, heard, etc... is he has enough to be a professional, but nothing noteworthy. the fact we havent heard a lot good or bad probably indicates there arent many indictments or on the flip side people willing to vouch.... middle of the road is my guess. probably not the first in the gym, but not the first out either. just a shooting from the hip general impression but for some reason he strikes me as a guy that would go with the flow of the team - put him with hardworkers and he will follow, put him with slackers, and well... he would probably follow. Well, given that we have a pretty health environment on this team, if he lives up to your assessment then this would be a good place for him to land. For a team to suck as long as we have, yet still show this much heart and leadership, clearly we have a lot of character. We just need to add a little more talent to that character without disrupting things. I'd prefer Bowers to Dareus, but I could live with cartoon boy, too.
NoSaint Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) interesting interview seems to enjoy the game, but like i was saying, might not lock himself in the gym without someones help. also doesnt read like a huge leader or especially "adult" but if he loves the game and is willing to do whats asked... i dunno.... i generally think hes a safe pick another tide sports interview from last offseason -- just more chances to get familiar with the guy Edited March 16, 2011 by NoSaint
1billsfan Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 interesting interview youtube.com/watch?v=wKidIDMI0Xk&feature=fvwrel seems to enjoy the game, but like i was saying, might not lock himself in the gym without someones help. also doesnt read like a huge leader or especially "adult" but if he loves the game and is willing to do whats asked... i dunno.... i generally think hes a safe pick another tide sports interview from last offseason -- just more chances to get familiar with the guy youtube.com/watch?v=Gu76hw3Uv30&feature=relmfu He literally laughed at the workout warrior question, and this is the guy that some want as the #3 pick? I heard that his favorite thing to do is watch cartoons. Again #3 pick? Seriously? Dude can barely speak! In contrast, here's a video of a Quinn interview. This sounds like a man, not a big kid like Dareus... I think the Bills will be smart and pick a mature person like Quinn, Miller, Peterson or Green. Dareus strikes me as the defensive version of Mike Williams.
1B4IDie Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) interesting interview youtube.com/watch?v=wKidIDMI0Xk&feature=fvwrel seems to enjoy the game, but like i was saying, might not lock himself in the gym without someones help. also doesnt read like a huge leader or especially "adult" but if he loves the game and is willing to do whats asked... i dunno.... i generally think hes a safe pick another tide sports interview from last offseason -- just more chances to get familiar with the guy youtube.com/watch?v=Gu76hw3Uv30&feature=relmfu Doesn't seem like the Nix 7 team captain in the 2010 draft kind of draftee to me. Don't get me wrong Marcell Dareaus is an athletic freak. This seems like a Nix guy to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRCmBxC1VzE Edited March 16, 2011 by Why So Serious?
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