Defensive scheme and the talent on the roster

[Dexter]

Having seen Torell Troup many times at UCF, he needs to be on the field, all the time. Kyle Williams played great last year, and hence he needs to be on the field.

 

Is it just me, or are the Bills two best DLs Williams and Troup, and if so, why do we have a 3-4??

 

 

Oh, that's right, Maybin will start playing like Lawrence Taylor soon... .... ......

[Thoner7]

I would have to disagree that troupe is our 2nd best D Lineman. I think Troup struggled a lot throughout the season. I rarely if ever saw him double teamed when the normal blocking assignments wouldn’t have called for it (in a combo block scenario, like running a dive play to side where Troupe is in the A gap.), and I saw him pushed around by 1 blocker far too often. That said, Edwards definitely outplayed him before being injured, and IMO Carrington did too although his playing time was very limited.

 

I am hoping Troupe gets stouter but I cant say I have too much confidence (how many recent Bills draft picks have panned out after a sub-par rookie year?). I know a lot of posters have the expectation that every draft pick will magically turn into an all pro once they “develop”, but odds are that won’t happen. I am not giving up on Troupe, I just don’t think we should put all our eggs in his basket, AND I think we need two true NGs to run a 3-4 anys. I don’t think KW is that true NG. I think he is better suited for DE and the Bills would benefit from moving him to DE.

 

So to answer your question – yes I think the combo of Troupe and KW would be better suited for a 4-3. I think our LBs are better suited for a 4-3. I think this draft is better suited for a 4-3. I think we are moving to a 3-4, and I think KW should be an end in that scheme. Buddy Nix said he wants two new DEs for next season. Well one should be either Fairley or Dareus and the other should be KW. Find a true, 330lb + NG either in the draft for FA that can play over the nose WITH Troupe, not in place of him. We will then be 2 deep at all three DL positions (which is what you want anyways).

 

KW ----------- Troupe ------------ Edwards

Carrington ---- Draft Pick/FA --- Fairley/Dareus

S. Johnson ---- KW (3rd downs)

 

Please don’t give me that “We are OK on the DL” or “Our NGs are service=able” argument. At some point we are going to have to be GREAT if we want to make the playoffs or get this – Win the Super Bowl. Why not build a GREAT team instead of skating by on mediocrity? It all starts up front and this is the draft to do it.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Thoner7

[Dexter]

I certainly never said the "DL was OK," and it is Torell Troup, no "e" at the end of the last name.

 

And I do think a one-gap 4-3 is in order with KW and Troup at DT, and likely Carrington at one DE.

[DrDawkinstein]

Having seen Torell Troup many times at UCF, he needs to be on the field, all the time. Kyle Williams played great last year, and hence he needs to be on the field.

 

Is it just me, or are the Bills two best DLs Williams and Troup, and if so, why do we have a 3-4??

 

 

Oh, that's right, Maybin will start playing like Lawrence Taylor soon... .... ......

 

Really good thread about this, here:

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/127010-can-kyle-williams-play-de-in-a-3-4/page__p__2105299__hl__williams__fromsearch__1#entry2105299

 

 

 

And possibly the best Football article Ive ever read. This is about the different schemes the Bills can run, and how to use Williams in them:

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/1/11/1927873/examining-multiple-defensive-fronts-featuring-kyle-williams

[PDaDdy]

Having seen Torell Troup many times at UCF, he needs to be on the field, all the time. Kyle Williams played great last year, and hence he needs to be on the field.

 

Is it just me, or are the Bills two best DLs Williams and Troup, and if so, why do we have a 3-4??

 

 

Oh, that's right, Maybin will start playing like Lawrence Taylor soon... .... ......

 

 

Update. We will be playing a 3 - 4 next year mixed with some 4 - 3. The 4 - 6 defense used to rock back in the day too! Carry on.

 

I would have to disagree that troupe is our 2nd best D Lineman. I think Troup struggled a lot throughout the season. I rarely if ever saw him double teamed when the normal blocking assignments wouldn’t have called for it (in a combo block scenario, like running a dive play to side where Troupe is in the A gap.), and I saw him pushed around by 1 blocker far too often. That said, Edwards definitely outplayed him before being injured, and IMO Carrington did too although his playing time was very limited.

 

I am hoping Troupe gets stouter but I cant say I have too much confidence (how many recent Bills draft picks have panned out after a sub-par rookie year?). I know a lot of posters have the expectation that every draft pick will magically turn into an all pro once they “develop”, but odds are that won’t happen. I am not giving up on Troupe, I just don’t think we should put all our eggs in his basket, AND I think we need two true NGs to run a 3-4 anys. I don’t think KW is that true NG. I think he is better suited for DE and the Bills would benefit from moving him to DE.

 

So to answer your question – yes I think the combo of Troupe and KW would be better suited for a 4-3. I think our LBs are better suited for a 4-3. I think this draft is better suited for a 4-3. I think we are moving to a 3-4, and I think KW should be an end in that scheme. Buddy Nix said he wants two new DEs for next season. Well one should be either Fairley or Dareus and the other should be KW. Find a true, 330lb + NG either in the draft for FA that can play over the nose WITH Troupe, not in place of him. We will then be 2 deep at all three DL positions (which is what you want anyways).

 

KW ----------- Troupe ------------ Edwards

Carrington ---- Draft Pick/FA --- Fairley/Dareus

S. Johnson ---- KW (3rd downs)

 

Please don’t give me that “We are OK on the DL” or “Our NGs are service=able” argument. At some point we are going to have to be GREAT if we want to make the playoffs or get this – Win the Super Bowl. Why not build a GREAT team instead of skating by on mediocrity? It all starts up front and this is the draft to do it.

 

I like your starting lineup but I hope Carrington can beat out Edwards. I doubt we will spend the #3 over all pick on a guy to play the same DE position as our 2nd round pick last year. I also doubt we will draft Fairley as he is a 4-3 DT. Dareus is the guy that everyone says can play 4-3 DT and 3-4 DE.

 

That being said our LBs are HORRIBLE. I repeat our LB are HORRIBLE. Merriman hasn't played "lights out" since he hurt his knee and got off the juice. Poz, although an overwhelming fan favorite for some, is slightly above average at best and can't cover to save his life. Look at all of the TDs scored by TEs last year and you will see Poz getting badly beaten in coverage. Moats is an undersized over achiever who is serviceable. Don't even make me speak the name of Mr K!!!

 

We didn't get gashed up the middle. We got killed around the ends and on cut backs. Our LBs are too slow and lack the size and athleticism to get the job done. To make it worse they don't even compensate with football savvy to hold their lane responsibilities. We need help at LB BIG TIME!

 

If anything our D-line is making our LBs look better than they are!!!!

Edited March 15, 2011 by PDaDdy

[truth on hold]

that's right. and if we make the mistake of drafting DLine at 3 it will make it that nuch more difficult to get them all on the field.

[Dexter]

My favorite "value" LB this year is Iowa's Jeremiha Hunter, who would be a 3-4 ILB here, and has no trouble excelling in cold weather.

 

I also think the Bills should take a flyer on Mark Herzlich later in the Draft. If he ever gets back to pre-cancer form, he'd be worth it big time.

[KOKBILLS]

Having seen Torell Troup many times at UCF, he needs to be on the field, all the time. Kyle Williams played great last year, and hence he needs to be on the field.

 

Is it just me, or are the Bills two best DLs Williams and Troup, and if so, why do we have a 3-4??

 

 

Oh, that's right, Maybin will start playing like Lawrence Taylor soon... .... ......

 

See here's the thing...

 

The Bills GM is on record that they are sticking with the 3-4...Agree or disagree it is what it is...I can't figure out for the life of me why there is so much conversation to the contrary around here...If The Team is set on moving to a 3-4, and is on record that their intention is EXACTLY that, why fight it? Williams and Troupe will both play plenty...The Bills will still use some 4-3 Fronts...Let it go...

[dgrid]

 

KW ----------- Troupe ------------ Edwards

Carrington ---- Draft Pick/FA --- Fairley/Dareus

S. Johnson ---- KW (3rd downs)

 

[PDaDdy]

My favorite "value" LB this year is Iowa's Jeremiha Hunter, who would be a 3-4 ILB here, and has no trouble excelling in cold weather.

 

I also think the Bills should take a flyer on Mark Herzlich later in the Draft. If he ever gets back to pre-cancer form, he'd be worth it big time.

 

I definitely don't think fixing our biggest area of need on the defense with value players and flyers is the way to go. As you can tell from the signature my first 2 desired picks would go a long way towards shoring up the huge talent gap at LB. I too hope that Kyle will kick out to DE which will mean Troup will start at center and he will neeed a guy to rotate with. Bring in man mountain run stuffer Jerrell Powe.

 

Now our defense suddenly looks young and strong with a bright future.

Edited March 15, 2011 by PDaDdy

[cantankerous]

Really good thread about this, here:

http://forums.twobil..._1#entry2105299

 

 

 

And possibly the best Football article Ive ever read. This is about the different schemes the Bills can run, and how to use Williams in them:

http://www.buffaloru...g-kyle-williams

 

Thanks for posting that link, you're right it's a great article.

[DrDawkinstein]

Thanks for posting that link, you're right it's a great article.

 

Indeed, Ive never had the whole "3-technique, 0-tech, etc" explained to me. I figured it had something to do with the spots along the line (0 to 5, working inside-out), but didnt know all the details. That one article provided more "X's and O's" information than Ive seen anywhere else. I wish more people wrote stuff like that instead of the TMZ articles we are normally subjected to...

[Dexter]

I definitely don't think fixing our biggest area of need on the defense with value players and flyers is the way to go. As you can tell from the signature my first 2 desired picks would go a long way towards shoring up the huge talent gap at LB. I too hope that Kyle will kick out to DE which will mean Troup will start at center and he will neeed a guy to rotate with. Bring in man mountain run stuffer Jerrell Powe.

 

Now our defense suddenly looks young and strong with a bright future.

 

 

Powe sucks. Did you watch Ole Miss??

 

If you insist that there cannot be any "values" on the Bills D, then you insist...

 

 

Hunter is an excellent player. He is ready now to start in the NFL, at either ILB in a 3-4 or MLB-WLB in a 4-3.

 

Response = but but but he isn't ranked highly by the gurus I'm parroting...

[PDaDdy]

Powe sucks. Did you watch Ole Miss??

 

If you insist that there cannot be any "values" on the Bills D, then you insist...

 

 

Hunter is an excellent player. He is ready now to start in the NFL, at either ILB in a 3-4 or MLB-WLB in a 4-3.

 

Response = but but but he isn't ranked highly by the gurus I'm parroting...

 

What kind of argument is that? Why exactly should I take the opinion, or parrot if you will, the views of a nameless faceless poster on the internet over actual nfl scouts and talent evaluators? I guess you're just the visionary that sees what nobody else can that the unknown Hunter is an obvious stud waiting to set the NFL on fire. Get real. Get a grip. Get a life.

 

Nice attempt to change the subject but my point was and is I don't think we should be looking to get by on the cheap or with flyers to fix our biggest area of need at LB. Just because you can't come to grips with reality and want us to switch back to the 3-4 doesn't mean it is going to happen. Running down the highly rated LBs at the top of the draft and making accusations of mindless following of public opinion doesn't give your argument one scrap of respectability or validity.

[Dexter]

You are a parrot, you've never watched Ole Miss, and you are certain Powe is what the Bills need...

 

 

What does that say about you??

[PDaDdy]

You are a parrot, you've never watched Ole Miss, and you are certain Powe is what the Bills need...

 

 

What does that say about you??

 

Still not playing your game. LBs are what we need...REPEAT...LBs are what we need!!!

 

 

Powe is a minuscule additional point I tried to make that you are trying to blow up into the entirety of my statement. I think Powe in the 3rd round would be a nice addition to rotate with Troup when he needs a rest. He is supposed to be a run stopping specialist. What NT would you suggest in the 3rd round that you feel is a better run stopper than Powe? Again, the conversation is about getting good LB and getting them early.

Edited March 15, 2011 by PDaDdy

[Bob in STL]

that's right. and if we make the mistake of drafting DLine at 3 it will make it that nuch more difficult to get them all on the field.

 

To win more games we have to improve in two areas:

 

1. Stop the run, and

2. Rush the passer.

 

 

Our LBs are very poor and DE is an area of need as well. I would not pass up a DE at #3 overall, even though we drafted Carrington last year in the 3rd round.

 

I would be very happy if three of the first four picks addressed DE, OLB and ILB.

 

We also have needs a RT, TE and QB.

 

This rebuild will take time.

[Dexter]

Still not playing your game. LBs are what we need...REPEAT...LBs are what we need!!!

 

 

Powe is a minuscule additional point I tried to make that you are trying to blow up into the entirety of my statement. I think Powe in the 3rd round would be a nice addition to rotate with Troup when he needs a rest. He is supposed to be a run stopping specialist. What NT would you suggest in the 3rd round that you feel is a better run stopper than Powe? Again, the conversation is about getting good LB and getting them early.

 

 

OK, so

 

1. you've never seen Powe play a down of football

2. you are sure Powe is the answer to the Bills NT depth issue

 

 

Personally, I won't know who will be there in Round 3 until Friday, April 29th...

 

but I would tend to go after players who I've seen and think are good, and Powe is just a big blob. He impresses people who think weight = run stop ability.

 

It would be much cheaper to sign Gabe Watson as a UFA for cheap than waste a high third on Powe. High thirds are for players expected to be more than career backups.

[K-9]

Does anyone find it ironic that there are so many that complain about Williams not being the "prototypical" NT and yet have no qualms about putting him at DE?

 

Hey, we all love the guy's heart and all but I have huge concerns about him at DE in ANY front.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited March 15, 2011 by K-9

[PDaDdy]

OK, so

 

1. you've never seen Powe play a down of football

2. you are sure Powe is the answer to the Bills NT depth issue

 

 

Personally, I won't know who will be there in Round 3 until Friday, April 29th...

 

but I would tend to go after players who I've seen and think are good, and Powe is just a big blob. He impresses people who think weight = run stop ability.

 

It would be much cheaper to sign Gabe Watson as a UFA for cheap than waste a high third on Powe. High thirds are for players expected to be more than career backups.

 

Gabe Watson is a career bum with no upside. I don't even know how you typed that with a straight face.

 

You state your points above like they are something I and everybody else for that matter, don't already know. I'm as sure as you can be for a 3rd round draft pick that has never played in the NFL. Yes I think he "could" be the answer. "Sure?" You can't be sure of anything with college players entering the NFL including your beloved Fairley/Dareus. I guess attempting to spin other peoples statements or shift their emphasis is your little game you play to either elicit additional posts or just be an obtuse troll.

 

You kind of gave yourself away using your favorite catch phrase "parrot". Not sure what screen name you used at the time but I seem to recall a similar line of BS in another thread. I accurately stated that you parrot yourself. Enough of it. No more posts for you. Good luck getting more people to respond to your useless thread.