sirebors Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) I REALIZE PLAY ON THE FIELD IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE COMBINE, BUT ANY INFORMATION CAN BE VALUABLE. http://bleacherrepor...han-the-combine THEREFORE, MAKE YOUR OWN INFERENCES: WEIGHT 40 TIME 225 LBS SHUTTLE 3 CONE ------------- ------------- ------------- --------------- ------------- VON MILLER *** 246 LBS 4.42 21 REPS 4.06 6.70 AARON MAYBIN 248 LBS 4.78 22 REPS 4.38 7.52 ** CLAY MATTHEWS 240 LBS 4.62 23 REPS 4.18 6.90 BRIAN ORAKPO 263 LBS 4.63 31 REPS RIAN CUSHING 243 LBS 4.64 30 REPS (STEROIDS) 4.22 6.84 SHAWNE MERRIMAN 272 LBS 4.68 25 REPS TERRELL SUGGS 257 LBS 4.65 DEMARCUS WARE 251 LBS 4.56 27 REPS LAMARR WOODLEY 266 LBS 4.74 MARTEZ WILSON *** 250 LBS 4.42 23 REPS 4.28 7.04 PATRICK WILLIS 242 LBS 4.51 22 REPS 4.46 7.23 BRIAN URLACHER 258 LBS 4.59 27 REPS 4.18 6.94 JEROD MAYO 242 LBS 4.54 4.29 7.31 ROBERT QUINN 265 LBS 4.62 22 REPS 4.40 7.13 DWIGHT FREENEY 266 LBS 4.48 28 REPS VERNON GHOLSTON 266 LBS 4.65 37 REPS 4.40 7.12 DAQUAN BOWERS 280 LBS 4.64 22 REPS JULIUS PEPPERS 283 LBS 4.74 TAMBA HALI 275 LBS 4.87 MARCELL DAREUS 319 LBS 4.93 24 REPS ** 4.62 7.83 NICK FAIRLEY 291 LBS 4.84 ** 4.56 7.14 ** VINCE WOLFORK 323 LBS 5.21 36 REPS RICHARD SEYMOUR 299 LBS 4.95 NDAMUKONG SUH: 307 LBS 5.03 32 REPS 4.44 7.21 HALOTI NGATA 338 LBS 5.13 37 REPS 4.69 7.97 BJ RAJI 337 LBS 5.12 33 REPS 4.69 7.90 RYAN MALLETT 253 LBS 5.37 TOM BRADY 211 LBS 5.28 THINGS I OBSERVED: 1. I WASN'T A HUGE VON MILLER FAN, BUT I FEEL MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE NOW TAKING HIM AS HE PRODUCED ON THE FIELD, AND CONTRARY TO POPULAR BELIEF ISN'T THAT SMALL. HE ALSO BEAT CLAY MATTHEWS DECIDEDLY IN MOST CATEGORIES. 2. AARON MAYBIN IS TERRIBLE CHANGING DIRECTION. 3.. I ALSO LOVE TO HAVE MARTEZ WILSON IN THE 2ND ROUND IF HE FALLS THAT FAR. HE IS BIGGER THAN AND BEAT PATRICK WILLIS IN ALL CATEGORIES. 4. ROBERT QUINN INTRIGUES ME, BUT VISIONS OF VERNON GHOLSTON WORRY ME. 5. I WAS A HUGE MARCELL DAREUS FAN AND WANTED THE BILLS TO DRAFT HIM, BUT HIS STRENGTH IS A CONCERN. 6. I DON'T LIKE THE FACT NICK FAIRLEY DIDN'T LIFT. HE DOESN'T LOOK PARTICULARY STRONG. BUT HE KILLED THE 3 CONE. VON MILLER http://www.nfldrafts...2011&genpos=OLB AARON MAYBIN http://www.nfldrafts...=2009&genpos=DE http://www.milehighr...aybin-penn-stat CLAY MATTHEWS http://www.nfldrafts...2009&genpos=olb BRIAN ORAKPO http://www.nfldrafts...=2009&genpos=DE BRIAN CUSHING http://www.nfldrafts...2009&genpos=OLB SHAWN MERRIMAN http://www.nfldrafts...=2005&genpos=DE TERRELL SUGGS http://www.nfldrafts...=2003&genpos=DE DEMARCUS WARE http://www.nfldrafts...2005&genpos=OLB LAMARR WOODLEY http://www.nfldrafts...=2007&genpos=DE MARTEZ WILSON http://www.nfldrafts...2011&genpos=ILB PATRICK WILLIS http://www.nfldrafts...2007&genpos=ILB BRIAN URLACHER http://www.nfldrafts...2000&genpos=OLB JEROD MAYO http://www.nfldrafts...2008&genpos=ILB ROBERT QUINN http://www.nfldrafts...=2011&genpos=DE DWIGHT FREENEY http://www.nfldrafts...=2002&genpos=DE VERNON GHOLSTON http://www.nfldrafts...=2008&genpos=DE DAQUAN BOWERS http://www.nfldrafts...=2011&genpos=DE JULIUS PEPPERS http://www.nfldrafts...=2002&genpos=DE TAMBA HALI http://www.nfldrafts...=2006&genpos=DE MARCELL DAREUS http://www.nfldrafts...=2011&genpos=DT NICK FAIRLEY http://www.nfldrafts...=2011&genpos=DT VINCE WOLFORK http://www.nfldrafts...=2004&genpos=DT RICHARD SEYMOUR http://www.nfldrafts...=2001&genpos=DT NDAMUKONG SUH http://www.nfldrafts...=2010&genpos=DT HALOTI NGATA http://www.nfldrafts...=2006&genpos=DT BJ RAJI http://www.nfldrafts...=2009&genpos=DT RYAN MALLETT http://www.nfldrafts...=2011&genpos=QB TOM BRADY http://www.nfldrafts...=2000&genpos=QB Edited March 13, 2011 by sirebors
mrags Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 A few more numbers you could look at that you didn't have up here, but the biggest one missing that I really like is Dontay Moch from Nevada. The guy was absolutely rediculous combine wise. IIRC he was almost 6'4", 250lbs, He had a 4.44 40yd, over a 10' broad and a 42" vertical. I don't remember his shuttle or 3 cone but he made my mind up. I want him if we can get him anywhere after the first round is over. I think he could easily play 3-4 OLB, 4-3 DE, or possibly pick up 20-30lbs over the next few years and play 3-4 DE. Another player to look out for was Acho. Another good day in Indy IMO if you happen to get intrigued by my insight I'd be happy to see how they ranked with these guys you posted. I'd do it myself but it's not easy to look up or post all that on my iPhone.
OldTimer1960 Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 Dontay Moch 40 yd: 4.45 vert: 42" 20 yd shuttle: 4.38 3 cone: 7.09 Sam Acho 40: 4.63 Bench 23 Vert: 33.5 20 yd shuttle: 4.32 3 cone: 6.69 I wouldn't put too much concern into Dareus' bench numbers. The guy is huge and plenty strong. Bench doesn't represent anchor strength and reps of 225 are as much endurance as they are indicative of power (at least for guys as strong as these guys are).
Nanker Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 PLAYER WEIGHT 40 TIME 225 LBS REPS SHUTTLE 3 CONE VON MILLER 246 LBS 4.42 21 REPS 4.06 6.70 AARON MAYBIN 248 LBS 4.78 22 REPS 4.38 7.52 ** CLAY MATTHEWS 240 LBS 4.62 23 REPS 4.18 6.90 BRIAN ORAKPO 263 LBS 4.63 31 REPS RIAN CUSHING 243 LBS 4.64 30 REPS(STEROIDS) 4.22 6.84 SHAWNE MERRIMAN 272 LBS 4.68 25 REPS TERRELL SUGGS 257 LBS 4.65 DEMARCUS WARE 251 LBS 4.56 27 REPS LAMARR WOODLEY 266 LBS 4.74 MARTEZ WILSON 250 LBS 4.42 23 REPS 4.28 7.04 PATRICK WILLIS 242 LBS 4.51 22 REPS 4.46 7.23 BRIAN URLACHER 258 LBS 4.59 27 REPS 4.18 6.94 JEROD MAYO 242 LBS 4.54 4.29 7.31 ROBERT QUINN 265 LBS 4.62 22 REPS 4.40 7.13 DWIGHT FREENEY 266 LBS 4.48 28 REPS VERNON GHOLSTON 266 LBS 4.65 37 REPS 4.40 7.12 DAQUAN BOWERS 280 LBS 4.64 22 REPS JULIUS PEPPERS 283 LBS 4.74 TAMBA HALI 275 LBS 4.87 MARCELL DAREUS 319 LBS 4.93 24 REPS ** 4.62 7.83 NICK FAIRLEY 291 LBS 4.84 ** 4.56 7.14 ** VINCE WOLFORK 323 LBS 5.21 36 REPS RICHARD SEYMOUR 299 LBS 4.95 NDAMUKONG SUH: 307 LBS 5.03 32 REPS 4.44 7.21 HALOTI NGATA 338 LBS 5.13 37 REPS 4.69 7.97 BJ RAJI 337 LBS 5.12 33 REPS 4.69 7.90 RYAN MALLETT 253 LBS 5.37 TOM BRADY 211 LBS 5.28 This format might be helpful for some. Dontay Moch 40 yd: 4.45 vert: 42" 20 yd shuttle: 4.38 3 cone: 7.09 Sam Acho 40: 4.63 Bench 23 Vert: 33.5 20 yd shuttle: 4.32 3 cone: 6.69 I wouldn't put too much concern into Dareus' bench numbers. The guy is huge and plenty strong. Bench doesn't represent anchor strength and reps of 225 are as much endurance as they are indicative of power (at least for guys as strong as these guys are). To paraphrase Buddy, "the only time you see the bench press in a football game is when the guy is pushing himself up to get off the ground... and we don't want THAT guy."
Brand J Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 Remember when people were comparing Aaron Maybin to Jevon Kearse and Jason Taylor? Memories suck...
bills1960 Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 Martez Wilson is impressive. He not only weighs more than Patrick Willis but he's faster and can bench more.
sirebors Posted March 13, 2011 Author Posted March 13, 2011 PLAYER WEIGHT 40 TIME 225 LBS REPS SHUTTLE 3 CONE VON MILLER 246 LBS 4.42 21 REPS 4.06 6.70 AARON MAYBIN 248 LBS 4.78 22 REPS 4.38 7.52 ** CLAY MATTHEWS 240 LBS 4.62 23 REPS 4.18 6.90 BRIAN ORAKPO 263 LBS 4.63 31 REPS RIAN CUSHING 243 LBS 4.64 30 REPS(STEROIDS) 4.22 6.84 SHAWNE MERRIMAN 272 LBS 4.68 25 REPS TERRELL SUGGS 257 LBS 4.65 DEMARCUS WARE 251 LBS 4.56 27 REPS LAMARR WOODLEY 266 LBS 4.74 MARTEZ WILSON 250 LBS 4.42 23 REPS 4.28 7.04 PATRICK WILLIS 242 LBS 4.51 22 REPS 4.46 7.23 BRIAN URLACHER 258 LBS 4.59 27 REPS 4.18 6.94 JEROD MAYO 242 LBS 4.54 4.29 7.31 ROBERT QUINN 265 LBS 4.62 22 REPS 4.40 7.13 DWIGHT FREENEY 266 LBS 4.48 28 REPS VERNON GHOLSTON 266 LBS 4.65 37 REPS 4.40 7.12 DAQUAN BOWERS 280 LBS 4.64 22 REPS JULIUS PEPPERS 283 LBS 4.74 TAMBA HALI 275 LBS 4.87 MARCELL DAREUS 319 LBS 4.93 24 REPS ** 4.62 7.83 NICK FAIRLEY 291 LBS 4.84 ** 4.56 7.14 ** VINCE WOLFORK 323 LBS 5.21 36 REPS RICHARD SEYMOUR 299 LBS 4.95 NDAMUKONG SUH: 307 LBS 5.03 32 REPS 4.44 7.21 HALOTI NGATA 338 LBS 5.13 37 REPS 4.69 7.97 BJ RAJI 337 LBS 5.12 33 REPS 4.69 7.90 RYAN MALLETT 253 LBS 5.37 TOM BRADY 211 LBS 5.28 This format might be helpful for some. Thank you so much. I actually painstakeingly did format it like this but when I entered the post, it turned out as it did. I even tried correcting it a couple of times. I should've inserted a separate format like you did but didn't realize this would happen until it was too late. Thank you again. To paraphrase Buddy, "the only time you see the bench press in a football game is when the guy is pushing himself up to get off the ground... and we don't want THAT guy."
FistingBot Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 A few more numbers you could look at that you didn't have up here, but the biggest one missing that I really like is Dontay Moch from Nevada. The guy was absolutely rediculous combine wise. IIRC he was almost 6'4", 250lbs, He had a 4.44 40yd, over a 10' broad and a 42" vertical. I don't remember his shuttle or 3 cone but he made my mind up. I want him if we can get him anywhere after the first round is over. I think he could easily play 3-4 OLB, 4-3 DE, or possibly pick up 20-30lbs over the next few years and play 3-4 DE. Another player to look out for was Acho. Another good day in Indy IMO if you happen to get intrigued by my insight I'd be happy to see how they ranked with these guys you posted. I'd do it myself but it's not easy to look up or post all that on my iPhone. I watched Moch play on two occasions at Nevada this year and he is the real deal. Combine numbers are one thing, but this guy absolutely dominated on defense. Did anyone see the classic Boise State - Nevada game this year? Moch was unblockable.
Nanker Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 sirebors, I hear you. I (and others) struggled with that issue for along time, i.e., posts don't format the same as what you put into the reply box. When doing a tabular input - like you did, it becomes a bit frustrating when all that formatting work gets stripped away and the numbers and values you so carefully placed get jumbled together. I looked in the Consumer Service forum and someone (I think Just Jack and SDS) suggested I try Code from the "Other Styles" drop down menu. It frames the entire data range in a box, and formats the data in a tabular manner - complete with colorized headers. Try it out (but use the preview post function to make sure it's displaying like you intend it to). You can't do text formatting within the Code though, but I find it makes reading compiled data a lot more readable. You went to a lot of effort to get your data together and it's appreciated. Hope this helps you keeping up that good work. So when the Code box opens, just paste your data into the box and hit the "Add" button. Then see how it looks in preview mode. It also helps to format your data before you copy and paste it into the box. Hint - use Tabs, not multiple spaces between the values. And, always start with a header row of labels that are also separated by tabs. You'll have to fuss less with getting the data properly aligned in columns that way. Cheers!
JohnC Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 Without even referring to the combine and the resultant meaningless numbers attached to the players I am confident that Miller is going to be a superb prospect. In the senior bowl and in a variety of game clips he has shown that he is more than an exceptional athlete. Without a doubt he is an excellent football player. In the senior bowl they isolated on him and showed how he is good at reading the plays and responding. What makes Miller an exceptional prospect is the combination of his athleticism with his instincts for the game. Everything that Maybin is Miller isn't. Maybin constantly gets fooled because he has little ability to diagnose the plays. I've never seen a player get suckered more into making the wrong move when the ball is snapped. After two full years he has not been able to develop and counter moves. That is absurd. I'm not saying that the Bills should take him with the third pick. But if they do it would be a reasonable pick.
Nanker Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) 2010 highlights against Texas 2011 highlights against Texas Edited March 13, 2011 by Nanker
sirebors Posted March 13, 2011 Author Posted March 13, 2011 Without even referring to the combine and the resultant meaningless numbers attached to the players I am confident that Miller is going to be a superb prospect. In the senior bowl and in a variety of game clips he has shown that he is more than an exceptional athlete. Without a doubt he is an excellent football player. In the senior bowl they isolated on him and showed how he is good at reading the plays and responding. What makes Miller an exceptional prospect is the combination of his athleticism with his instincts for the game. Everything that Maybin is Miller isn't. Maybin constantly gets fooled because he has little ability to diagnose the plays. I've never seen a player get suckered more into making the wrong move when the ball is snapped. After two full years he has not been able to develop and counter moves. That is absurd. I'm not saying that the Bills should take him with the third pick. But if they do it would be a reasonable pick. I was concerned that Von Miller would be too small to be as dominant in the NFL as he was in college. After comparing him to other perennial pro bowlers this isn't nearly as much of a concern to me any more. So with that I would have to disagree that the numbers are "meaningless" from a combine. I think they can be used in conjunction with game film, interviews, past history, and tempermant to more accurately guage a players projected net worth. If the numbers were merely arbitrary then why would the NFL even have a combine? Why would so many GM's and coaches attend? Would it matter to you if Von Miller arrived at the combine at 215 lbs? How about 315? Would it matter if he ran a 10 second 3 cone drill where it became readily apparent that he couldn't change direction? Or was only able to bench 225 lbs 4 times? It's ludicrous to me that you think these things don't matter but every NFL team does.
mrags Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 I watched Moch play on two occasions at Nevada this year and he is the real deal. Combine numbers are one thing, but this guy absolutely dominated on defense. Did anyone see the classic Boise State - Nevada game this year? Moch was unblockable. I neve saw him play or even heard of him before the combine. His numbers backed by his size is just very impressive. I think this guy could be a huge steal no matter where he is drafted. Obviously I wouldn't take him at 3rd overall or even in the 1st round because that's not where he is projected. It would be a reach. But anywhere in the 2nd round or after I would love it. Moch and Moats as our OLBs for the next 5-8 years would be killer IMO.
sirebors Posted March 13, 2011 Author Posted March 13, 2011 I watched Moch play on two occasions at Nevada this year and he is the real deal. Combine numbers are one thing, but this guy absolutely dominated on defense. Did anyone see the classic Boise State - Nevada game this year? Moch was unblockable. I actually did watch Dontay Moch play this year and I, for one, was really not impressed. I saw a player who was really good at going straight ahead but was unable to change direction. He has phenomenal "track" statistics but as far as I was concerned he didn't appear to be a very good football player. I think he was able to beat certain players just because he is so much more superior to them athletically, but I think his shortcomings would be readily apparent in the NFL. I see Vernon Gholston in Dontay Moch.
JohnC Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) I was concerned that Von Miller would be too small to be as dominant in the NFL as he was in college. After comparing him to other perennial pro bowlers this isn't nearly as much of a concern to me any more. So with that I would have to disagree that the numbers are "meaningless" from a combine. I think they can be used in conjunction with game film, interviews, past history, and tempermant to more accurately guage a players projected net worth. If the numbers were merely arbitrary then why would the NFL even have a combine? Why would so many GM's and coaches attend? Would it matter to you if Von Miller arrived at the combine at 215 lbs? How about 315? Would it matter if he ran a 10 second 3 cone drill where it became readily apparent that he couldn't change direction? Or was only able to bench 225 lbs 4 times? It's ludicrous to me that you think these things don't matter but every NFL team does. Do you know what matters to me the most? Whether the prospect is a good football player or not? You don't need the combine to get the weights and shuttle times of the players. They can be found out from other places and sources. My point is simple: Being a combine warrior tells you little as to whether a player is going to be good. The game tapes are much more relevant because they tell you how the player performs in actual game situations. Edited March 13, 2011 by JohnC
sirebors Posted March 13, 2011 Author Posted March 13, 2011 Do you know what matters to me the most? Whether the prospect is a good football player or not? You don't need the combine to get the weights and shuttle times of the players. They can be found out from other places and sources. My point is simple: Being a combine warrior tells you little as to whether a player is going to be good. The game tapes are much more relevant because they tell you how the player performs in actual game situations. Did you happen to read the very first line of this post and/or look at the very first link?
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