boyst Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Are you aware that the owners are making more money under the current CBA than they have ever made before? They are making so much money that they are unwilling to reveal what their profit margins are. Not only would the truth of their financial status undercut their claims but making it public would be embarrassing for them. Are YOU aware that the players are making more money under the current CBA than they ever made before? They are being so greedy that they are unwilling to renegotiate what their profit margins are. Not only would the truth of their greed show their overvalued contracts but revealing the estimated 51%+ they are making would be embarassing for them.
truth on hold Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Are you aware that the owners are making more money under the current CBA than they have ever made before? They are making so much money that they are unwilling to reveal what their profit margins are. Not only would the truth of their financial status undercut their claims but making it public would be embarrassing for them. And so are the players!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's the point. Theyre attracting owners with the money and business acumen to grow the league's revenue base. Edited March 12, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack
Thud Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Are you aware it doesnt freaking matter? When you own a business is there a limit as to how much you could make? Are you aware that Steve Jobs is so rich everyone in america could have a free ipad!?? Wow! Why doesnt he do that? Hmmm walmart could have a free day and they dont? What a rip off. The company i work for reported record profits and i went home thankful for job security not pissed off feeling i deserved a cut. When will you realize? Probably never.
JohnC Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 And so are the players!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's the point. Theyre attracting owners with the money and business acumen to grow the league's revenue base. The players are not asking for more money. They simply want to keep what they have. It was the owners who opted out of the CBA without demonstrating the need to do so. Are YOU aware that the players are making more money under the current CBA than they ever made before? They are being so greedy that they are unwilling to renegotiate what their profit margins are. Not only would the truth of their greed show their overvalued contracts but revealing the estimated 51%+ they are making would be embarassing for them. What the players make is out in the open. What the owners make is not because the owners don't want to expose that information to the public. It would be too embarrassing to do so.
boyst Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 What the players make is out in the open. Is it, though? Do we really know what Brady makes? Sure, we see his published reports of making $xx.xx...but that does not mean it is true. Howard Stern makes $100million/year according to some reports but it is not true. What the owners make is not because the owners don't want to expose that information to the public. It would be too embarrassing to do so. I think you're out of your mind. Embarrassing in regards to how much they make by being frugal in Buffalo, perhaps, but also in how much Jerruh has to spend on payments for his new palace. Of course, both must be done in their respective markets to ensure the viability of their organizations. Should the current trend in Buffalo's economy continue Ralph will need all of the money he can to keep the team affloat. Jones down in Dallas needs to sink in lots of money because he is in an area that is still growing and successful with the largest fanbase in the NFL. Walmart, IBM, crApple, Viacom...I do not think any of them publish what they make.
truth on hold Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 The players are not asking for more money. They simply want to keep what they have. It was the owners who opted out of the CBA without demonstrating the need to do so. Since they're getting a bigger share on the new deal and squeezing the rookies then what's the problem?
JohnC Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Since they're getting a bigger share on the new deal and squeezing the rookies then what's the problem? There is no new deal. Is it, though? Do we really know what Brady makes? Sure, we see his published reports of making $xx.xx...but that does not mean it is true. Absolutely. His contract terms are made public, as are all player contracts. If you don't want to believe the figures then that is your prerogative. Howard Stern makes $100million/year according to some reports but it is not true. What does how much Howard Stern makes have to do with NFL players? Not very relevant.
truth on hold Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 There is no new deal. Firm offer the players rejected
boyst Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Absolutely. His contract terms are made public, as are all player contracts. If you don't want to believe the figures then that is your prerogative. What does how much Howard Stern makes have to do with NFL players? Not very relevant. When you think about how much Brady makes - a lot based on performance, etc...it seems like it is just a number. Just like Stern. Does it matter if it is $500k or $500m? At the end of the day, these players are earning more then enough to support themselves for several years beyond their playing career.
JohnC Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Firm offer the players rejected If you want to believe in one sides propaganda then go ahead and believe it. You are entitled to your opinion. There was no one offer because the negotiations dealt with a wide range of matters that weren't close to being resolved. At the end of the day both sides concluded by giving posturing statements. There was no firm offer for the players to accept. [/font] Edited March 12, 2011 by JohnC
NoSaint Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 PR spin control. The main issue is money. Always has been. Always will be. And the owners decided to create a system where they pay their employees a percentage of the total revenue. When they did that they created a partnership. But they expect the players to take their word on what that total number actually is. On trust alone. Now, there isn't a business in the world that would agree to sign a new deal based on this principle without seeing the books. The fact that the NFL is insisting that they met the players' finical demands is a bold faced lie since the desired number is a percentage of a number the owners refuse to acknlowdge. If the owners didn't have anything to hide they would show the books. If the leave was really not making record profits and generating record revenues, they'd show their books because it would take whatever leverage the players have away. i didnt know the total revenue was in question. a full audit is very different. clearly the league needs to share the size of the pie, but how the teams spend there share is the teams business. if i were an owner i wouldnt want to hand de smith those books either. the numbers are on a scope no average fan can comprehend and demaurice has proven time and time again to manipulate and lie about numbers. dont you remember when he said he was willing to split the difference and lower the percentage of revenue 8%, but quietly glossed over that in return he wanted an extra billion in the calculation, actually RAISING the players pay from the current deal -- Trumpeting that as a huge 8% give back? hes been slimy through this whole thing.
ajzepp Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 I purposely avoid getting all caught up in this crap, but I generally side with the players due to the physical risks that come with playing the NFL game. That being said, the players were the ones who walked away from negotiations, so they can go suck it. That's one thing Goodell said that's 100% true...if you refuse to negotiate, nothing will get done. I work in health care, primarily with retirees who worked for the state of GA. They just got news that the state is far more in debt than they realized, and they're facing an increase of over $1200 in their annual medicare premiums for next year. These people can barely afford to pay their bills as is, and these fuktards can't find a way to decide how billions of dollars are going to be divided? Screw all of 'em.
KOKBILLS Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 I purposely avoid getting all caught up in this crap, but I generally side with the players due to the physical risks that come with playing the NFL game. That being said, the players were the ones who walked away from negotiations, so they can go suck it. That's one thing Goodell said that's 100% true...if you refuse to negotiate, nothing will get done. I work in health care, primarily with retirees who worked for the state of GA. They just got news that the state is far more in debt than they realized, and they're facing an increase of over $1200 in their annual medicare premiums for next year. These people can barely afford to pay their bills as is, and these fuktards can't find a way to decide how billions of dollars are going to be divided? Screw all of 'em. I think based on what you pointed out so well, Fans are not going to have much patience for this garbage no question...And it might not be the Court that matters most in the end, but I do feel the Players are going to get absolutely slaughtered in the Court of Public opinion...They did walk away and it seems as if that was exactly what they wanted to do all along...This stuff about Business Partners and Book Opening is not going to cut it with the general public...I'm not quite sure why they feel Peyton Manning/Drew Brees/Tom Brady vs. The NFL is going to be so powerful...I have no idea about the Law behind it, but the Fans are not going to get behind that crap at all...When it comes right down to the basics there are so many Americans out of work and struggling right now it's almost impossible to have much sympathy for the Player side of things...I realize their Employers are Billionaires, but the jobs they create are dream jobs for most of us and the League they bring to the Fans is 2nd to none...I just can't muster up any sympathy for the Players on this one...I hope the Owners take them to the cleaners...
Nasty Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 PR spin control. The main issue is money. Always has been. Always will be. And the owners decided to create a system where they pay their employees a percentage of the total revenue. When they did that they created a partnership. But they expect the players to take their word on what that total number actually is. On trust alone. Now, there isn't a business in the world that would agree to sign a new deal based on this principle without seeing the books. The fact that the NFL is insisting that they met the players' finical demands is a bold faced lie since the desired number is a percentage of a number the owners refuse to acknlowdge. If the owners didn't have anything to hide they would show the books. If the leave was really not making record profits and generating record revenues, they'd show their books because it would take whatever leverage the players have away. This whole thing is a mess. I say the owners show them a pay chart of how much they make to shut the players up, but it wont matter cause the players will always want more. I think about it this way and maybe I am wrong for doing so; I am in the navy, been in for 18 years and as long as I have been in I can always see a paychart on what everyone in the navy is making. I came in enlisted so I knew I would make less then the officers, and I started at the bottom so I knew there would be people over me. No matter how good I was or what I have done before, and ever since then it has always been the same. There is always people better then me and some people are the same rank as me now but get paid more cause they have been in longer. I knew that coming in just like the NFL players do. It is a choice they made when they decided to play professional football. Where it got way out of control is when these kids come out of college and demand the big paychecks off the bat, and the vets were probably wondering why the owners weren't spreading the wealth, and the owners probably started thinking well dam I need to save some money for next years rookies so I can afford them. Bottom line is, they need to make a NFL rookie salary cap, have these guys come in and earn there keep. Some of them are all pros and some are not, but the way the first round contracts are now they all get paid like all pros before proving anything. Anyway they should have a rookie 3 year minimum salary cap with incentives, that way the owners can spread some of the wealth to the vets and not have to worry about how much they are going to have to fork over on next years rookies. The rookies shouldn't be asking for much, they should be luckie they are even playing. The owners should make the lions share of the wealth when it comes to the NFL I mean they are the owners. Half of the NFL players make tons of money, blow it and wonder why the are broke 5 years after retirement and come back holding there hands out, knowing they were living way over there head instead of planning for the future. I mean the owners are buisness men making a profit, the players need to learn how to save and turn there money over as well, instead of begging for more.
ajzepp Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 I think based on what you pointed out so well, Fans are not going to have much patience for this garbage no question...And it might not be the Court that matters most in the end, but I do feel the Players are going to get absolutely slaughtered in the Court of Public opinion...They did walk away and it seems as if that was exactly what they wanted to do all along...This stuff about Business Partners and Book Opening is not going to cut it with the general public...I'm not quite sure why they feel Peyton Manning/Drew Brees/Tom Brady vs. The NFL is going to be so powerful...I have no idea about the Law behind it, but the Fans are not going to get behind that crap at all...When it comes right down to the basics there are so many Americans out of work and struggling right now it's almost impossible to have much sympathy for the Player side of things...I realize their Employers are Billionaires, but the jobs they create are dream jobs for most of us and the League they bring to the Fans is 2nd to none...I just can't muster up any sympathy for the Players on this one...I hope the Owners take them to the cleaners... Completely agree man. The little people rely on the NFL as an escape, especially during tougher economic times like we've been in recently. Sunday football is part of the fabric of American culture...hell, if I had a dime for how many times my excitement and anticipation for an NFL weekend got me through a stressful shift in the hospital, I'd be rich. For these people to completely FAIL in their negotiations is a huge kick in the balls to those of us everyday folks who have real jobs, families, bills, stress, etc...and especially those who DON'T have jobs. Hell, if I were the judge, I'd force these morons to donate 1% of total GROSS revenue for the 2011 season to a charity of the fans' choosing....and I'd increase that by 1% for every week this crap went on without an agreement. They - both the owners and players - seem to take their riches for granted...maybe when forced with the threat of having less to argue over they will get their act together. Ridiculous... This whole thing is a mess. I say the owners show them a pay chart of how much they make to shut the players up, but it wont matter cause the players will always want more. I think about it this way and maybe I am wrong for doing so; I am in the navy, been in for 18 years and as long as I have been in I can always see a paychart on what everyone in the navy is making. I came in enlisted so I knew I would make less then the officers, and I started at the bottom so I knew there would be people over me. No matter how good I was or what I have done before, and ever since then it has always been the same. There is always people better then me and some people are the same rank as me now but get paid more cause they have been in longer. I knew that coming in just like the NFL players do. It is a choice they made when they decided to play professional football. Where it got way out of control is when these kids come out of college and demand the big paychecks off the bat, and the vets were probably wondering why the owners weren't spreading the wealth, and the owners probably started thinking well dam I need to save some money for next years rookies so I can afford them. Bottom line is, they need to make a NFL rookie salary cap, have these guys come in and earn there keep. Some of them are all pros and some are not, but the way the first round contracts are now they all get paid like all pros before proving anything. Anyway they should have a rookie 3 year minimum salary cap with incentives, that way the owners can spread some of the wealth to the vets and not have to worry about how much they are going to have to fork over on next years rookies. The rookies shouldn't be asking for much, they should be luckie they are even playing. The owners should make the lions share of the wealth when it comes to the NFL I mean they are the owners. Half of the NFL players make tons of money, blow it and wonder why the are broke 5 years after retirement and come back holding there hands out, knowing they were living way over there head instead of planning for the future. I mean the owners are buisness men making a profit, the players need to learn how to save and turn there money over as well, instead of begging for more. Thank you for protecting our country, brother....God bless our military
Nasty Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 I purposely avoid getting all caught up in this crap, but I generally side with the players due to the physical risks that come with playing the NFL game. That being said, the players were the ones who walked away from negotiations, so they can go suck it. That's one thing Goodell said that's 100% true...if you refuse to negotiate, nothing will get done. I work in health care, primarily with retirees who worked for the state of GA. They just got news that the state is far more in debt than they realized, and they're facing an increase of over $1200 in their annual medicare premiums for next year. These people can barely afford to pay their bills as is, and these fuktards can't find a way to decide how billions of dollars are going to be divided? Screw all of 'em. I have no feelings for them, they choose to play the game, they knew coming in what it took to play the game, and they knew how much they would get paid if they played it well. Completely agree man. The little people rely on the NFL as an escape, especially during tougher economic times like we've been in recently. Sunday football is part of the fabric of American culture...hell, if I had a dime for how many times my excitement and anticipation for an NFL weekend got me through a stressful shift in the hospital, I'd be rich. For these people to completely FAIL in their negotiations is a huge kick in the balls to those of us everyday folks who have real jobs, families, bills, stress, etc...and especially those who DON'T have jobs. Hell, if I were the judge, I'd force these morons to donate 1% of total GROSS revenue for the 2011 season to a charity of the fans' choosing....and I'd increase that by 1% for every week this crap went on without an agreement. They - both the owners and players - seem to take their riches for granted...maybe when forced with the threat of having less to argue over they will get their act together. Ridiculous... Thank you for protecting our country, brother....God bless our military It's my pleasure, I love this country and everything it stands for and what our founding fathers ment it to be.
Nasty Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 The only people saying they offered legit financials are people who work for the NFL. Every other outlet says it didn't happen. Hence Smith's before the deadline demand of audited financials for the past 10 years. Not one or two or three. The owner's contention is that the league's financial future is grim based on the cost of these new stadiums. They were asked to prove it. They refused. Why refuse unless the numbers aren't what they claim? If the NFL had offered, the federal moderator would have come down hard on the players. It was the biggest sticking point. Because that's the only way to actually discuss the numbers. Can I see your financial records, bank statements, receipts, savings accounts, investments? Of course not, and I would never ask you to show me either. The point is they are owners not only are they owners, they are buisness men so they should be making a majority of the money. How much money do you think the Walton family makes from Wal-mart. Do you see the store managers, cashiers, stockers, ect. asking to see financial records, of course not cause they know there place, just like the players know what they are getting into when they get drafted by an NFL team.
agardin Posted March 12, 2011 Author Posted March 12, 2011 All of these percentages are relevant because there is a salary cap and floor. If these caps didn't exist then it would be correct to compare them to normal businesses in terms of turning over financial records. The truth is that with a CBA and salary cap the players are not able to get the highest possible contracts. Sounds crazy but if there was an open market,no cap,no franchise tags and restrictions on player movement (as is the case in normal businesses) I am pretty sure players like Manning and Brady would actually make more. In a free and flowing market place, you are worth your marginal product, if you aren't being paid like that you would leave and if you were you would stay, ceteris paribus. This is not the case with the NFL. Don't get me wrong, I love the salary cap and the parity it produces. Without it, the Bills would be long gone or a farm team for the haves of the NFL, see MLB as an example.
Nanker Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 The biggest mistake the NFL ever made was to make the CBA pay scale based on a percentage of revenues. Pay can always be described in terms of a percentage of gross revenues, but to literally tie it to revenues was abjectly stupid. Talk about entitlements. The players have come to think of themselves as part owners in the business. That's a ridiculous concept. I'm not saying that players don't deserve fair compensation, but there aren't many if any that are treated with a raw deal. Things couldn't continue on as they were. The kids were loose in the candy shop. Implementing a rookie wage scale is only common sense and I for one want to see any savings there spent on retired players pension and/or health insurance. I thought they would get a decent settlement without going nuclear. I have a lower opinion of both sides now. Welcome to the No Fans League.
Pilsner Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 My damn iPhone won't let me reply as well as I would like. Nasty, I offer my sincere gratitude to you. For the sacrifices you've made (and to many others on here as well) for the services rendered to our nation and for the view you have for what the founding fathers had envisioned. Let every man of worth and of substance uphold our founding fathers ideals. Ok now other than rebuilding our country, let's also rebuild a Bills team. By the way, what ever happened to the fellow with the Greek and Latin terminology? That was good stuff. Go Bills!!! Get those hooves a churnin and stampede the azzez off of anyone getting in the way! Nix, make it happen!
Recommended Posts