scribo Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I know that I will get blasted for this, but I rank Fletcher ever so slightly above Talley. 160223[/snapback] No blasting coming from me, but I'd like to remind you how, as Talley himself described, his eyes woudl change color come the fourth quarter. The D back then would pick off perfecet passses, block kicks, just rip the ball from running backs, whatever it took to get a win. The D back then knew how to ensure a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I dont remember. Did Harvey Martin and Bob Lily play together? If so, they too were pretty tough. 160244[/snapback] Harvey Martin was an end. Randy White may be who you're thinking of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The Super Bowl defense was very underrated and the schemes were very basic. Put those players in a more aggressive and attacking style and they'd have been much more productive. Walt Corey was an idiot, though in fairness to him defensive schemes have greatly matured over the last 10 years. 160121[/snapback] You're pretty much on target here. It is ridiculous to compare individual players when their talents are misused. How many here realize that James Lofton came off the scrap heap to help out the Bills? Many of the Bills defenders in the SB years were all-time Buffalo greats, but they did not constitute a good defensive unit. Levy & Co's greatest mistake was not having a true nose tackle when they dumped Fat Freddie. Jeff Wright was not the answer and in retrospect is was wrong not to sign Jim Burt in '90, when he was available. When they recognized that Wright was the weak link on D, the stiffs that were brought into camp after that were not much better. It wasn't until Phillips brought Washington over that the Bills run D became respectable - too little too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Harvey Martin was an end. Randy White may be who you're thinking of. 160260[/snapback] Thanks AD. Andre was the other end. Maybe it was white as a rookie. Not a bad line, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Thanks AD. Andre was the other end. Maybe it was white as a rookie. Not a bad line, huh? 160266[/snapback] Not so bad. Didn't get worse when they added Ed Jones, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsSouth Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Just one question: where has this D taken this team? To the Super Bowl? Four times? No. Heck, this team hasn´t even played a playoff game yet! You might say "but it was the O which was mainly responsible for our success in the past". True, but that´s not the whole story. We had some great people on D back then, like Bruce, Darryl, the Biscuit, and Phil. Maybe our LB today are on par, but our DEs are not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Just one question: where has this D taken this team? To the Super Bowl? Four times? No. Heck, this team hasn´t even played a playoff game yet! You might say "but it was the O which was mainly responsible for our success in the past". True, but that´s not the whole story. We had some great people on D back then, like Bruce, Darryl, the Biscuit, and Phil. Maybe our LB today are on par, but our DEs are not even close. 160338[/snapback] Yeah, especially when you watch the Chiefs play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Just one question: where has this D taken this team? To the Super Bowl? Four times? No. Heck, this team hasn´t even played a playoff game yet! You might say "but it was the O which was mainly responsible for our success in the past". True, but that´s not the whole story. We had some great people on D back then, like Bruce, Darryl, the Biscuit, and Phil. Maybe our LB today are on par, but our DEs are not even close. 160338[/snapback] The contention that the SB defense was not great can co-exist with the belief that they were still much, much, much, much better than our current offense. As easy as it is for most people to forget just how historically pathetic our offense was for a few years after one good month, I just can't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 As easy as it is for most people to forget just how historically pathetic our offense was for a few years after one good month, I just can't do it. 160361[/snapback] Me neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsSouth Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Yeah, especially when you watch the Chiefs play. 160342[/snapback] Good comparison. Look where a team can go when it has no D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Just one question: where has this D taken this team? To the Super Bowl? Four times? No. Heck, this team hasn´t even played a playoff game yet! You might say "but it was the O which was mainly responsible for our success in the past". True, but that´s not the whole story. We had some great people on D back then, like Bruce, Darryl, the Biscuit, and Phil. Maybe our LB today are on par, but our DEs are not even close. 160338[/snapback] Yeah, keep trying. Maybe you can tell me how those great DE's contributed to the success of the great 3-4 unit. How many coaches would back down from the insistence of a great ILB to only play outside? Would you find a consistent thread in Bills getting hammered in the regular season by Oilers & KC running and the performances vs physical NFC East in the SBs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Would you find a consistent thread in Bills getting hammered in the regular season by Oilers & KC running and the performances vs physical NFC East in the SBs? 160372[/snapback] Although we did own the NFC in regular season play during those years, including 3-1 vs the NFC East in the SBXXV year ('90). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Although we did own the NFC in regular season play during those years, including 3-1 vs the NFC East in the SBXXV year ('90). 160444[/snapback] Went 4-0 against them the next time around in the regular season, too. Damn games with Roman Numerals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 SB team ST vs. 2004 team ST...clear winner - 2004 ST I wouldn't agree here. The SB team ST's were spectacular, although we didn't have the return game weapons we now have. The coverage was much better and Tasker/Pike we terrific at forcing fumbles by opposing returners. Finally, if you are comparing ST, you have to compare the whole thing. Obviously Moorman is better than anyone we had but Christie/Norwood would blow the doors off Lindell. Sorry, but the SB ST's were better overall than the current version b/c of coverage and the kicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I wouldn't agree here. The SB team ST's were spectacular, although we didn't have the return game weapons we now have. The coverage was much better and Tasker/Pike we terrific at forcing fumbles by opposing returners. Finally, if you are comparing ST, you have to compare the whole thing. Obviously Moorman is better than anyone we had but Christie/Norwood would blow the doors off Lindell. Sorry, but the SB ST's were better overall than the current version b/c of coverage and the kicker. 160480[/snapback] you are right...plus, any resemblance between this and the 90-93 o-lines (from the fisrt post)is purely coincidental. if we lost mcgahee tomorrow these guys would have us right back to 6-10. meanwhile if you took thurman out and replaced him with kenny davis we never missed a beat. that tells me all you need to know about the two lines. the bills are looking good these days, but the o-line still needs work, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duey Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 I know that I will get blasted for this, but I rank Fletcher ever so slightly above Talley. 160223[/snapback] I have no problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 you are right...plus, any resemblance between this and the 90-93 o-lines (from the fisrt post)is purely coincidental. if we lost mcgahee tomorrow these guys would have us right back to 6-10. meanwhile if you took thurman out and replaced him with kenny davis we never missed a beat. that tells me all you need to know about the two lines. the bills are looking good these days, but the o-line still needs work, imo. 160490[/snapback] I wouldn't say we'd never miss a beat. We didn't lose Thurman to extended injuries very often. Thank God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni Man Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Shane Conlan, Mark Kelso, Jeff Wright, etc., were all great. As compared to who? Just imagine the kinda stats Bruce and Hansen would've put up if they had a Pat Williams or a Sam Adams playing that nose tackle spot in place of Jeff Wright. I wouldn't say any of those 3 players were "great". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I have no problem with that. 160508[/snapback] i think fletcher made more stupid plays in the first 6 weeks of this season than talley made in his whole career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Some of you guys just have a blinding love affair with those SB teams. I guess they will always hold a special place in all of our hearts, but c'mon -Kelso and Wright were not great players. Odoms was good at getting picks but he also got burned his share (not that I'm a big Clements fan either). Biscuit was good but overrated. Switch Head Coaches in SB 25 and the Bills win (without needing a last-second FG). That defense had a better pass-rush with Bruce, but the current one is better at everything else. Plus the conference in 1990 was the modern day NFC. 160179[/snapback] AMEN, brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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