ExiledInIllinois Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Between whom? Or is this just a "the man" is stepping on us opinion? :rolleyes: No. That must be a double no... You really can't answer my question two posts up without wisecracks or simple ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 :rolleyes: No. That must be a double no... You really can't answer my question two posts up without wisecracks or simple ideas. What's there to answer. I'd rather here your proof of collusion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Yeah that extra dollar really sucks. that always cracks me up. People who drive halfway across San Antonio because the other Costco has gas 5 cents cheaper. I feel like I'm the only one that understands it costs more in gas to get there than what you save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) What's there to answer. I'd rather here your proof of collusion.. How convienent of you to leave out a very important word. I said it is hard to prove... Next to impossible... But then again, you aren't reading. And it isn't just the word collusion... The word tacit is very important here. Do you know the meaning of that word? that always cracks me up. People who drive halfway across San Antonio because the other Costco has gas 5 cents cheaper. I feel like I'm the only one that understands it costs more in gas to get there than what you save. Same here. I only buy gas in my town between the three of them offered... Citgo, Shell, and Speedway. Citgo... I don't go to because of the Venezuela thing... So it is really Shell and mostly Speedway... All within a half mile of each other. They do have quite and equillibrum between the three. Usually, Citgo is the price leader and the other two follow. Neither really undercuts the others knowing that they can't service all the cars that would be coming unless they expand... And that can't happen... Just no extra room/real estate in town... And anyway... Down the other side about a mile is another Shell. So usually all four are in the mix. Prices drop at the start of the week and go high starting Thursday night into Saturday... About 4 miles east near the expressway (394 to 94 to Chicago) there is another Shell... Their prices sometimes match... But usually not and are higher being near the expressway. Edited March 8, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 How convienent of you to leave out a very important word. I said it is hard to prove... Next to impossible... But then again, you aren't reading. And it isn't just the word collusion... The word tacit is very important here. Do you know the meaning of that word? Oh so now you're the board wordsmith. Did you ever stop to think WHY the collusion is near impossible to prove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 http://blog.energytomorrow.org/2011/01/the-impacts-of-delay.html?gclid=CJXokZq6vacCFQhy5Qod7Bk52Q http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/15/first-gulf-of-mexico-drilling-company-seahawk-files-bankruptcy-because-of-offshore-drilling-moratorium/ I spent $55 to fill my sedan up today. Hmmm...so if we had increased domestic production does that mean the growing crude inventories at Cushing would be even higher? There's a glut of oil sitting in OK, yet prices are rising and it's Obama's fault...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 Hmmm...so if we had increased domestic production does that mean the growing crude inventories at Cushing would be even higher? There's a glut of oil sitting in OK, yet prices are rising and it's Obama's fault...? Gas prices have doubled in two years. We are more dependent on foreign oil than ever. If we had a stable domestic source of oil and abundant refinery capacity gasoline would be cheap. The money not being spent on gas would be spent on something else. Maybe by purchasing that something else jobs would be created. Next lesson after recess. BTW, did you read the articles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Gas prices have doubled in two years. We are more dependent on foreign oil than ever. If we had a stable domestic source of oil and abundant refinery capacity gasoline would be cheap. The money not being spent on gas would be spent on something else. Maybe by purchasing that something else jobs would be created. Next lesson after recess. Sorry, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Gas prices have doubled in two years. We are more dependent on foreign oil than ever. If we had a stable domestic source of oil and abundant refinery capacity gasoline would be cheap. The money not being spent on gas would be spent on something else. Maybe by purchasing that something else jobs would be created. Next lesson after recess. BTW, did you read the articles? I guess I should've simply said "Obama bad." Oil prices have doubled from the bottom of a severe economic collapse--even Magox could predict that one! Why are you now throwing in refinery capacity? Who's fault is that? Again, maybe you can explain why oil inventories are growing and prices are rising? It's Obama's fault, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Again, maybe you can explain why oil inventories are growing and prices are rising? It's Obama's fault, right? Isn't this the time of year when they have to shut down capacity to clean equipment in anticipation of the summer blends? Just sayin'...again...annually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Drilling either on shore or off shore would only lower prices if 1. you produced enough oil to produce slack in the world oil supply or 2. the government stepped in and controlled the price and selling point. I'd be shocked if either of those things happened, oil is a global commodity and sells where the price is highest. The United States would collect revenues (royalty fees) (sometimes shockingly little)the company may provide employment and if it's an American oil company they may pay extra taxes (Exxon paid near zero U.S. taxes 2009). The point is while some oil producing countries like Iran or Venezuela subsidizes gas and heating oil others like Great Britain with the North Sea oil never did- being that we are a free market country unless there were riots or a major war I would not expect our government to tell the oil companies to who and at what price they must sell their oil. On the refinery side it's mostly a problem of Nimby- refineries are most useful near water but that's where the most valuable land and wealthiest people hang out - another issue is many of the smaller refineries have been shut down and occasionally you read where the major oil companies won't sell to a smaller player or the bigs using government connections will stop smaller refineries from being built- and lastly there have been times when many refineries have been down for maintenance at the same time driving up gas prices but while many suspect collusion I don't think it's ever been proved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Isn't this the time of year when they have to shut down capacity to clean equipment in anticipation of the summer blends? Just sayin'...again...annually... yup, march april is usually when refinery utilization rates drop to their lowest levels of the year and also investors usually start buying futures in anticipation of the summer driving season. Typically in a normal year, gasoline futures hit peaks right before and the beginning of the summer and towards the end of the summer, depending on actual demand vs. expectations. Of course, it is hurricane season and those disruptions or fear of it impacts prices. Drilling either on shore or off shore would only lower prices if 1. you produced enough oil to produce slack in the world oil supply or 2. the government stepped in and controlled the price and selling point. I'd be shocked if either of those things happened, oil is a global commodity and sells where the price is highest. The United States would collect revenues (royalty fees) (sometimes shockingly little)the company may provide employment and if it's an American oil company they may pay extra taxes (Exxon paid near zero U.S. taxes 2009). The point is while some oil producing countries like Iran or Venezuela subsidizes gas and heating oil others like Great Britain with the North Sea oil never did- being that we are a free market country unless there were riots or a major war I would not expect our government to tell the oil companies to who and at what price they must sell their oil. On the refinery side it's mostly a problem of Nimby- refineries are most useful near water but that's where the most valuable land and wealthiest people hang out - another issue is many of the smaller refineries have been shut down and occasionally you read where the major oil companies won't sell to a smaller player or the bigs using government connections will stop smaller refineries from being built- and lastly there have been times when many refineries have been down for maintenance at the same time driving up gas prices but while many suspect collusion I don't think it's ever been proved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) This really is an easy fix. Most of the rise in oil is all about perception and speculation in the oil market. Make plans to open up the reserve and start making noise about tripling the oil drilling permits with talk of "environmental sound" drilling methods for oil extraction in area that are off limits now. You don't even have to follow through with it. Edited March 8, 2011 by whateverdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 yup, march april is usually when refinery utilization rates drop to their lowest levels of the year and also investors usually start buying futures in anticipation of the summer driving season. Typically in a normal year, gasoline futures hit peaks right before and the beginning of the summer and towards the end of the summer, depending on actual demand vs. expectations. Of course, it is hurricane season and those disruptions or fear of it impacts prices. Every single frickin' year for something like eight years. And it's obvious enough that even I, with almost no industry knowledge, was able to figure it out. And it's still Bush's/Obama's fault. People are !@#$ing idiots. (But let me tell you...if Obama decides to release oil from the SPR, you're going to see a major Sheentastic wig-out from me. I don't think he will...but still, major Sheentastic wig-out territory.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 This really is an easy fix. Most of the rise in oil is all about perception and speculation in the oil market. Make plans to open up the reserve and start making noise about tripling the oil drilling permits with talk of "environmental sound" drilling methods for oil extraction in area that are off limits now. You don't even have to follow through with it. It is ridiculous with the amount of reserves that the U.S has that we are importing well over half of our oil. This country could do much to create jobs, lower gas prices and in turn use that money elsewhere to create more jobs, just by tapping our own resources. It is true that the rise in the price of oil is due to speculation. What do you think the speculators would do if our government announced that it was going to loosen the regs and put us on a path to energy independence? What would a reduction of 12,000,000 barrels of oil demand do to the price of oil worldwide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 http://blog.energytomorrow.org/2011/01/the-impacts-of-delay.html?gclid=CJXokZq6vacCFQhy5Qod7Bk52Q http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/15/first-gulf-of-mexico-drilling-company-seahawk-files-bankruptcy-because-of-offshore-drilling-moratorium/ I spent $55 to fill my sedan up today. IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Drill now baby!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Every single frickin' year for something like eight years. And it's obvious enough that even I, with almost no industry knowledge, was able to figure it out. And it's still Bush's/Obama's fault. People are !@#$ing idiots. (But let me tell you...if Obama decides to release oil from the SPR, you're going to see a major Sheentastic wig-out from me. I don't think he will...but still, major Sheentastic wig-out territory.) Yeah, I dont believe that would work, the market isn't concerned with Cushing Oil supplies (and usually never is unless it's in what I call "Bear-mode"), it's focused on supply disruptions and fear of it escalating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Drill now baby!!! What administration is not giving permits out? Giving permits out will not solve today's problem today. It will help to solve it down the road. Giving permits out will also set a tone that eventually will lead to less speculation that the price will stay high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 It is ridiculous with the amount of reserves that the U.S has that we are importing well over half of our oil. This country could do much to create jobs, lower gas prices and in turn use that money elsewhere to create more jobs, just by tapping our own resources. It is true that the rise in the price of oil is due to speculation. What do you think the speculators would do if our government announced that it was going to loosen the regs and put us on a path to energy independence? What would a reduction of 12,000,000 barrels of oil demand do to the price of oil worldwide? probably would have a one day $2-3 dollar effect on the news of opening up more land for drilling and then would have a much larger 4-10 year tangible impact on more supplies hitting the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 probably would have a one day $2-3 dollar effect on the news of opening up more land for drilling and then would have a much larger 4-10 year tangible impact on more supplies hitting the market. We have to start somewhere. I read a quote from John Kerry the other day from April 2001. When asked about opening up more land for drilling he said something like "it'll take ten years before that oil will ever hit the market". Time flies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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