ETD66SS Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) If you think that the NFL will not feature predominantly black quarterbacks in a matter or another generation, I think you are foolish. Who said that? As of right now, Black QB's can't cut it... Period. Maybe Cam Newton will be the first? I doubt it. Most white QB's can't handle the position anymore. A dumb jock who can launch the ball is no longer good enough. It doesn't matter anyways, in 100's of years, there will be more mixed black/white in sports than purebreads of either group. Maybe by then "black" QB's will catch on -OR- Maybe the league will be mostly hispanic & Samoan. Edited March 7, 2011 by ETD66SS
NaPolian8693 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 As of right now, Black QB's can't cut it... Period. What does "cut it" mean? Does winning the Heisman and a national title cut it? If you are referring to the NFL, McNabb's career doesn't cut it? Vick and his Pro Bowls don't cut it? Did Moon/Cunningham cut it? Philip Rivers hasn't won anything meaningful. However, in my mind, he very much "cuts it" as a QB.
ETD66SS Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 I don't think any of those guys you listed are top notch QB's. If Rivers was anything special, he would have lead his team to a SB championship by now. So no, IMO, none of them can, nor have "cut it".
ieatcrayonz Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 I don't think any of those guys you listed are top notch QB's. If Rivers was anything special, he would have lead his team to a SB championship by now. So no, IMO, none of them can, nor have "cut it". So Trent Dilfer is better than Jim Kelly and Dan Marino then?
akm0404 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) As of right now, Black QB's can't cut it... Period. Maybe Cam Newton will be the first? I doubt it. Oh boy, here we go. Figured it wouldn't take too long before one of the "thinly veiled" crowd would get loose. When you say "can't cut it", what exactly do you mean? You realize Mike Vick received the most Pro Bowl votes, and was in contention for the NFL MVP Award, right? Did you see Josh Freeman in Tampa take what was widely regarded as the worst team in the NFL to double-digit wins this season? So, I guess if "can't cut it" doesn't mean win a Super Bowl, make the Pro Bowl, turn a franchise around, or be the most electrifying player in the league, you're 100% right. Edited March 7, 2011 by akm0404
ETD66SS Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 So Trent Dilfer is better than Jim Kelly and Dan Marino then? Did I say that? However, I do think Jim Kelly royally choked, and was not deserving of his immediate HOF status.
youngjebrey Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Well Everyone seems to be afraid to say it so ill just say it.... For the most part, white NFL players are more intelligent while black people are more athletic. There.... was that so hard to say?
akm0404 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 *fingers crossed that we'll get a reply from Mr. Enlightened with regard to just how exactly them blacks don't cut it*
ETD66SS Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Oh boy, here we go. Figured it wouldn't take too long before one of the "thinly veiled" crowd would get loose. When you say "can't cut it", what exactly do you mean? You realize Mike Vick received the most Pro Bowl votes, and was in contention for the NFL MVP Award, right? Did you see Josh Freeman in Tampa take what was widely regarded as the worst team in the NFL to double-digit wins this season? So, I guess if "can't cut it" doesn't mean win a Super Bowl, make the Pro Bowl, turn a franchise around, or be the most electrifying player in the league, you're 100% right. When black QB's start doing what Joe Montana, Troy Aikman, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and a few others have done, then I will change my mind on Black QB's. When white RB's start doing what O.J. Simpson, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith, etc have done, then I will change my mind white RB's. I'm sorry that to be considered a top notch QB, you have to lead your team to championships and win some of them, but that is the sdtandard, like it or not. Kelly will not go down as a top notch QB, he will go down as a flawed QB, who choked. That's life. When GM's and owners say "franchise" QB, that's what they are saying they want, a champion. i.e., someone who wins it all, and does not choke. Kelly is a franchise QB with a big-ol asterisk. *fingers crossed that we'll get a reply from Mr. Enlightened with regard to just how exactly them blacks don't cut it* You're simply a ... But I guess that's what the internet is for? I'd be very happy with a Black QB who brings the SB trophy to Buffalo. However, black QB's need to prove to me they can perform such a feat, so far, they have not. I'm not going to have faith that Cam newton will be the first to break through that barrier, especially with the character issues that have arisen. <edited for content> Edited March 7, 2011 by Beerball
ieatcrayonz Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 When black QB's start doing what Joe Montana, Troy Aikman, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and a few others have done, then I will change my mind on Black QB's. Kelly will not go down as a top notch QB, he will go down as a flawed QB, who choked. That's life. Did Doug Williams cut it?
ETD66SS Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Did Doug Williams cut it? Absolutely not, same as how Dilfer didn't. Sorry, very weak argument you have there. You don't go building a SB team around weak QB and superb defense or an incredible offensive line, those the the things you get lucky with, and then roll with them to a championship. Would I take a SB trophy lucking out like the Ravens & Redskins did? Sure. (Rypen, I'm not familiar with the Doug Williams Scenario, but iirc, a strike year may have been involved, invalidating those playoff results IMO) Is that the way to build a team form the ground up? No. Don't be silly, with your silly arguments that everyone cans see through. Black QB's need to PROVE IT! When they do, I will have no problem with it. However, they have to actually do it first...
NaPolian8693 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Well, I guess part of the problem is that ETD doesn't know what the term "franchise" quarterback means. A franchise QB is one that can be counted on to give you a high level of play for the next 5+ seasons. When this position is solidified, you can then build a franchise around this player. I guess that is not obvious to everyone. Also, if you think the reason the Chargers haven't had more postseason success is due to some sort of problem with Rivers, it just further illustrates the lack of understanding you have about football. Philip Rivers "cuts it" and the Bills would be very lucky to get a QB of his caliber to build around. That's okay though - I know it's fun to register a new account and create drama on the message boards. I've done it plenty of times myself. Edited March 7, 2011 by NaPolian8693
ETD66SS Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Well, I guess part of the problem is that ETD doesn't know what the term "franchise" quarterback means. A franchise QB is one that can be counted on to give you a high level of play for the next 5+ seasons. When this position is solidified, you can then build a franchise around this player. I guess that is not obvious to everyone. Also, if you think the reason the Chargers haven't had more postseason success is due to some sort of problem with Rivers, it just further illustrates the lack of understanding you have about football. Philip Rivers "cuts it" and the Bills would be very lucky to get a QB of his caliber to build around. That's okay though - I know it's fun to register a new account and create drama on the message boards. I've done it plenty of times myself. Haha, yeah, you're so smart and knowledgeable about football dude. Yeah, you the man. Maybe it's people like you that is the main reason the Bills have sucked for so long? If all you want out of a franchise QB is what you say, then you must be a fan of Fitz? And I olny came here, because the ESPN Bills message board has all but dried up. Edited March 7, 2011 by ETD66SS
ieatcrayonz Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Absolutely not, same as how Dilfer didn't. Sorry, very weak argument you have there. You don't go building a SB team around weak QB and superb defense or an incredible offensive line, those the the things you get lucky with, and then roll with them to a championship. Would I take a SB trophy lucking out like the Ravens & Redskins did? Sure. (Rypen, I'm not familiar with the Doug Williams Scenario, but iirc, a strike year may have been involved, invalidating those playoff results IMO) Is that the way to build a team form the ground up? No. Don't be silly, with your silly arguments that everyone cans see through. Black QB's need to PROVE IT! When they do, I will have no problem with it. However, they have to actually do it first... In what ways can we group QB's other than skin color? Do left handed QBs have to PROVE IT? Italians? Catholics? Guys named Blaine? Or is it just black people that should be lumped into a group and judged collectively? And just to be clear, you did say that Doug Williams "absolutely does not cut it" and that you are totally unfamiliar with him is the same post right? Edited March 7, 2011 by ieatcrayonz
NaPolian8693 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Haha, yeah, you're so smart and knowledgeable about football dude. Yeah, you the man. Maybe it's people like you that is the main reason the Bills have sucked for so long? If all you want out of a franchise QB is what you say, then you must be a fan of Fitz? And I olny came here, because the ESPN Bills message board has all but dried up. You were doing some good trolling at first, but now you've kind of let it slide and are resorting to personal insults to create bickering. The best trolling is done when the troll (you) doesn't come across as mad (which you do). That means you are losing. You want to make OTHER people resort to childish behavior, that's how you win as a troll. GL!
Ridlehuber Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 that white players are better Quarterbacks in the NFL? According to Wiki Answers there are 3,867 white athletes vs 11,978 black athletes in the NFL. It's obvious that it's a difficult thing for a white player to compete with black players in the NFL. And it's not just at skill positions. It appears that they only excel at QB play, Kicking, and Punting. No one knows why that is and you could debate that topic all day long. Could it be that white athletes gravitate towards the QB position based on they might enjoy the studying part of the position more than the black athlete? And the white athlete recognizes that as an edge or a way to compete with their more athletic black counterparts. Is that a racist thing to say? I don't think so. Why can't we just talk about the "elephant in the room"? If anyone saw Cam Newton in his under armour at the combine, and you don't think he's the most physically gifted QB in the draft you're crazy. But the questions about him are centered around does he have the mind of an NFL QB. Can he lead a group of Men. Is he as fierce in the film room as he is in the weight room. Does he ENJOY that part of the position? I honestly am not posting this to incite hateful debate, but honest debate.
Ridlehuber Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 that white players are better Quarterbacks in the NFL? According to Wiki Answers there are 3,867 white athletes vs 11,978 black athletes in the NFL. It's obvious that it's a difficult thing for a white player to compete with black players in the NFL. And it's not just at skill positions. It appears that they only excel at QB play, Kicking, and Punting. No one knows why that is and you could debate that topic all day long. Could it be that white athletes gravitate towards the QB position based on they might enjoy the studying part of the position more than the black athlete? And the white athlete recognizes that as an edge or a way to compete with their more athletic black counterparts. Is that a racist thing to say? I don't think so. Why can't we just talk about the "elephant in the room"? If anyone saw Cam Newton in his under armour at the combine, and you don't think he's the most physically gifted QB in the draft you're crazy. But the questions about him are centered around does he have the mind of an NFL QB. Can he lead a group of Men. Is he as fierce in the film room as he is in the weight room. Does he ENJOY that part of the position? I honestly am not posting this to incite hateful debate, but honest debate.
akm0404 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Black QB's need to PROVE IT! When they do, I will have no problem with it. However, they have to actually do it first... What about red-headed quarterbacks? Just thinking fast, I can't really think of any that have won Super Bowls. Long-haired quarterbacks? They'd have to prove it, because I mean, there'd be no reason to think they'd be any good without SEEING it first, and getting some RINGS. Face it bro, u racist.
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Pure Racism, but I bet you know it already.
ajzepp Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 This is a really simple debate. It is NOT racist to say there are more white quarterbacks. That is a simple fact. it is NOT racist to say that genetics play a part. Ethopians are good marathoners and Jamaicans are good sprinters, the Olympics show that over long periods of time. In the same vein, it is not racist to say black people are more likely to have curly hair, or white people are more likely to have blue eyes. That's just reality. However, what IS racist is to imply that a black guy is NOT CAPABLE of being a quarterback, or that a white guy is NOT CAPABLE of playing RB. Vick is a good player, and so is Woodhead/Hillis. What IS racist is to lump black people all together and say they are too dumb. There are plenty of blacks out there with world-class minds that are leading researchers and such. There are a lot of socio-economic issues that lead to many blacks having low education levels, which fuels this perception. ( Reading defenses is not even directly equated with deep thinking capability or eloquence at a press conference, either, btw. I mean, look at Breet Favre. He's not an idiot, but he's no rocket scientist. Dan Marino had a horribly low Wonderlic score. It's more about quick recognition - which is still a brain related issue, it's just not the same as the ability to do algebra. ) What IS racist is to say that all black people are too lazy to work hard enough to be a QB. There are some lazy black people, and some hard working black people. Same goes for every ethnicity. On the whole I think we will continue to see more white QBs than black, and more black RBs than white in the NFL - but that doesn't mean there won't be many many successful players that deviate from traditional racial assumptions. Well said. When you make objective observations about differences among people, cultures, races, ethnicity, etc., that is not racist. When you use said differences as a means by which to oppress, discriminate against, prejudge, criticize, berate, etc., then it becomes racist. It's a diverse world and people have differences...to pretend they don't is just silly. I love the fact that there is so much diversity in the world. I find people to be fascinating and I think it would get pretty boring if everyone were a 38 y.o. pudgy white guy like me. As for the NFL, in terms of who quarterbacks our team, I would want the same characteristics in a player for that position no matter their skin color. I want someone with a winners mentality who can be aggressive, but who can also reign it back when the situation calls for it. I want someone dedicated to learning his craft and someone coachable. I want a player who will play as well or better in the bigger games as he will during the regular season against teams we should beat. I want someone who leads a respectable life off the field, and I also want someone who embraces the community of B-lo and Bills nation. I don't care if that person is green with a raging zit problem....if he fits that description, I want him.
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