Orton's Arm Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 i think its a predisposition of coaches that goes back to much lower levels. I would bet starting at pop warner coaches tend to funnel coaches subconciously into positions they "look like they fit." not even in a racist manner, but just an instinctual, this is what a qb looks like, this is what a rb looks like model. by the time that pop warner coaches funnel some guys, then hs coaches do it some more, and college coaches do it some more... what is entering the nfl tends to fit the stereotypes a little bit closer then it probably should. its also been shown in studies of the human body that white men tend to be better built for swimming based on their center of gravity, and black men tend to have more speed when running. probably part of why you see white guys at the less speed intensive positions in general. Just to expand on your second paragraph: I think that the speed differential is why you see a considerably higher proportion of blacks in the NFL than in the general population. However, the speed differential is less useful at QB than at most other positions, which is why the racial composition of NFL QBs more closely resembles the racial composition of the U.S. population as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Sad to say and I've said it before but this thread helps confirm it: the city of Buffalo is not yet ready for a black quarterback. I'd bet any amount of money that this has come up in internal draft discussions, and I suspect that it'll keep the Bills from drafting Newton. Fan perception is very important to the health of this franchise, and frankly, there is still too much racism in Buffalo for the team to rile everyone up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) This thread does nothing to prove your stereotyping of Buffalo. One bigot on a message board suggesting that there aren't more black quarterbacks because black players "don't like the film room" means less than nothing. Edited March 10, 2011 by Zulu Cthulhu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) An honest discussion of evolutionary biology as it applies to humans is always going to be problematic because ultimately there will be people who are offended by the conclusions others draw. Clearly some people have evolved to have much different attributes than others. You can find discernable differences between people of various tribes in Africa who are, by todays standards, separated by very little geographical distance, yet who have evolved very differently; such as peoples who are very tall living near people who are very short. Just as those of Scandinavian descent generally have different attributes to other white people. For the sake of biological curiosity I suppose it can be worth discussing, but since we are delving into the realm of generalities where there are inevitably exceptions to the rule, I'm not sure how much practical value such truth finding has. Edited March 10, 2011 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBills Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 The Rev. Al Sharpton would not like this thread too much. Although, it's 100% true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) If I'm given a choice to select either Blaine Gabbert or Tyrod Taylor, I'm picking Taylor every day of the week. I actually hope the Bills do pick Taylor if he's there in the fourth. IMO, if Blaine Gabbert were black he'd be an afterthought and considered a middle round pick. So much of that guy is the so-called picture perfect image of the franchise QB. Just out of curiousity, where do you rate Taylor & Gabbert in this draft? By that I mean, what round do you select them in? Edited March 10, 2011 by Mark Vader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Taylor couldn't get out of his own way trying to save the season in the last drive against Boise State. He was horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 If you have to ask, then it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 This thread does nothing to prove your stereotyping of Buffalo. One bigot on a message board suggesting that there aren't more black quarterbacks because black players "don't like the film room" means less than nothing. Are you suggesting that Buffalo fans would embrace a black quarterback? I predict that if the Bills drafted Newton, there would be a large number of folks highly eager to call him JaMarcus Russell and hunt for ways to label him as lazy and thuggish. I believe the treatment he'd receive would be much different than if the Bills drafted Gabbert. Just my opinion from following the team and it's fans my whole life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 This thread does nothing to prove your stereotyping of Buffalo. One bigot on a message board suggesting that there aren't more black quarterbacks because black players "don't like the film room" means less than nothing. I'm hardly a bigot and I can prove it. It's people like you that are the reason we don't progress in the area of race. The accusations you've made of me are the reason this topic can't EVER be talked about, because people like you stop the conversations with your hate for anyone who wants to have dialogue. You don't know me Sir or Madame, and you've more than once called me out. Well know it's your turn. Instead of shutting down conversation with your dialect and hateful rhetoric why don't you offer your opinion on the matter you coward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I'm hardly skirting. But what I will say is, I think black people in general are more athletic than any other people. It's just a gift. You're right I didn't say white athletes are more intelligent, but not because I'm skirting, but because I don't think it's true. I think that white athletes get smarter in areas like QB play as an opportunity to gain an edge, because they often times can't physically compete with the black athletes. I don't give a crap how smart you are, if you aren't as gifted at a position like wide receiver or tailback you have no chance. But at QB there are so many opportunities to work on non physical things, that white athletes gravitate towards that opportunity to be competitive. I don't think black athletes can't do it, I just think they are less interested in that, and gravitate towards the physical. Which is a natural thing. "I'm good at this, I'll keep getting better at this." I think black athletes are enjoying the studying side more and more and that's why your seeing more black QB's. And if the light comes on in the film room with a guy like Newton, it's going to be crazy. There are plenty of guys, even the black ones, who devote plenty of time to film study w/out being QBs. Film study and attention to detail is what has made Ray Lewis and Ed Reed among the best to ever play their respective positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Neither I nor anyone else has shut down the conversation on your topic. If you want to know the real reasons for the dearth of black QBs in the league, read through this thread - other posters have laid out various reasons why. All of those reasons have more merit than your suggestion that blacks don't like to watch film, a statement to which you offer absolutely no evidence in support. It's just a classic stereotype. That's why I called you a bigot, deservedly so. Maybe you believe you're not, just like you believe there's 16,000 players in the NFL. In both cases, your beliefs are wrong, and calling me a "coward" for whatever reason doesn't change those facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Just out of curiousity, where do you rate Taylor & Gabbert in this draft? By that I mean, what round do you select them in? I like Taylor a lot (perfect for Gailey's system) and hope he's there for the Bills to pick in the 4th. I don't think Gabbert will ever become a better QB than what we have now with Fitzpatrick so I wouldn't even draft him. At least Taylor has the athleticism that's needed in a modern day NFL QB. I saw an interview with him on "First Take" a couple of days ago and he said that he's taller than Vick and Brees, so that's why I think taking a flyer and using a 4th on him is ok with me. So if we go defense with the first, don't be surprised if they target Taylor at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Are you suggesting that Buffalo fans would embrace a black quarterback? I predict that if the Bills drafted Newton, there would be a large number of folks highly eager to call him JaMarcus Russell and hunt for ways to label him as lazy and thuggish. I believe the treatment he'd receive would be much different than if the Bills drafted Gabbert. Just my opinion from following the team and it's fans my whole life. It depends on what you mean by "Buffalo fans" akm. That's a blanket term isn't it? Would some people have a problem with it? Sure, there's racists everywhere. But I think they are relatively few in number. I suppose we're just arguing over percentages. There are many more fans that would hate the Newton pick for entirely legitimate reasons, and some would compare him to Russell as another recent colossal bust. Not all the Newton=Russell comparisons would have a racial component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Neither I nor anyone else has shut down the conversation on your topic. If you want to know the real reasons for the dearth of black QBs in the league, read through this thread - other posters have laid out various reasons why. All of those reasons have more merit than your suggestion that blacks don't like to watch film, a statement to which you offer absolutely no evidence in support. It's just a classic stereotype. That's why I called you a bigot, deservedly so. Maybe you believe you're not, just like you believe there's 16,000 players in the NFL. In both cases, your beliefs are wrong, and calling me a "coward" for whatever reason doesn't change those facts. What if I am black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 What if I am black? What if you are? What if I am? Doesn't matter. "[W]hite athletes gravitate towards the QB position based on they might enjoy the studying part of the position more than the black athlete" is still a stereotype and the wrong reason. Your thread asks if it racist to say that. I and others think it is. Did you start this thread expecting everyone to agree with you and support that statement? And again, you have absolutely no evidence to support it. Oh, and threatening me in a PM and then calling me a coward? That's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) What if you are? What if I am? Doesn't matter. "[W]hite athletes gravitate towards the QB position based on they might enjoy the studying part of the position more than the black athlete" is still a stereotype and the wrong reason. Your thread asks if it racist to say that. I and others think it is. Did you start this thread expecting everyone to agree with you and support that statement? And again, you have absolutely no evidence to support it. Oh, and threatening me in a PM and then calling me a coward? That's funny. I wasn't threatening you in the PM, I would actually like to meet you. And I thought you might change your mind about me being a bigot, once you saw I was black. You're the person I was hoping to meet. You even thinking I was threatening you in the PM only solidifies you're the perfect person for me to meet. I'm a 36 year old black man, whose back in college for the first time in 15 years. I'm doing a case study on why racism in this country is so slow to change. I don't believe it's because of the actual white and black racist. I don't think people even listen to them anymore. I think it's the people in the middle. I think there's a large group of white and black people that actually want to talk about sensitive issues, but fear it. I think it's people like you that promote the fear by using words like bigot. You quoted me a couple of times, but never quoted when I said "I honestly am not posting this to incite hateful debate, but honest debate." I find that extremely interesting. I think you were honestly trying to defend black people, and you feel good about coming to our or their rescue, but are counter productive in your efforts. I don't think you're a bad person for doing it, I think it probably came from a good place. But I think you need to understand that there are people that have thoughts based on how they grew up, and have stereotypes in their mind, but aren't promoting racism. I think I picked a perfect topic for this discussion. And I hope no one thinks I wasted their time. I think this was such a worthwhile discussion. Zulu, would you be interested in furthering this study with me either in person or via some email questions? Oh and sorry for the coward comment, I did that for a reason that I can explain if we talk. Edited March 10, 2011 by Triple Threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 You quoted me a couple of times, but never quoted when I said "I honestly am not posting this to incite hateful debate, but honest debate." I have as much or more respect for old people than anyone, but realistically when you put stuff like this in threads it confuses them and that is ageism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I find that extremely interesting. I think you were honestly trying to defend black people, and you feel good about coming to our or their rescue, but are counter productive in your efforts. I don't think you're a bad person for doing it, I think it probably came from a good place. But I think you need to understand that there are people that have thoughts based on how they grew up, and have stereotypes in their mind, but aren't promoting racism. All I believe is the idea in your original post is a stereotype and not the reason for the disparity in quarterbacks. If you were throwing that suggestion in to spur debate, but don't personally believe it, then I apologize. But again, your thread is titled "is it racist to say..." and I still believe the implications behind the suggestion are. Just my opinion. I am not the only one to think so. As far as the bolded above, now you are calling me paternalistic, which is a bit insulting. I don't feel the need to come to anyone's rescue. You invited opinions, and received them. I hope they help with your study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 All I believe is the idea in your original post is a stereotype and not the reason for the disparity in quarterbacks. If you were throwing that suggestion in to spur debate, but don't personally believe it, then I apologize. But again, your thread is titled "is it racist to say..." and I still believe the implications behind the suggestion are. Just my opinion. I am not the only one to think so. As far as the bolded above, now you are calling me paternalistic, which is a bit insulting. I don't feel the need to come to anyone's rescue. You invited opinions, and received them. I hope they help with your study. Triple Threat's most recent post was good enough that you owe him a better response than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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