Doc Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 "Growing the business" isn't necessarily what the average fan wants. Growing the business could mean "overpriced luxury suites," "higher ticket prices in exchange for more luxurious facilities," or, more generally, "an effort to extract more money from fans in the future than had been the case in the past." The only way I can think of, off the top of my head, to grow the business without doing any of the above-described things would be to make the stadium bigger, with lots of new low cost seats. That would allow more Average Joe fans to attend games! The problem is that even that would hurt the fans, by increasing the number of tickets the Bills would have to sell to avoid blackouts. I don't want to come across as though I'd categorically rule out all arguments in favor of a stadium renovation without first listening to them. But there's also a strong argument to be made in favor of keeping things more or less as they are for the time being and collecting the revenue. Bingo. You can attempt to "grow the business," but if there aren't enough customers who are willing to pay what you need to cover your costs (something Jerruh is painfully finding out), you've taken an unnecessary risk.
JohnC Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Bingo. You can attempt to "grow the business," but if there aren't enough customers who are willing to pay what you need to cover your costs (something Jerruh is painfully finding out), you've taken an unnecessary risk. What is the situation with Jerry Jones? Is it becoming obvious that he overreached? I read accounts that he could have built his stadium for 40% or more less. But he insisted on the going for the gold instead of the brass. What's the scoop?
High Mark Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 its because we draft like crap and all our ****ty rooks (Maybin, McCargo, etc) all make too much money\
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Buffalo as a city has been in decline for quite awhile, no offense meant. But one of our advantages must be our ticket prices. Growing the business, as mentioned might affect the local fans directly Well, there is the Jerry Jones approach. Indianapolis built a new palace stadium albeit in a smaller market, as well, not so long ago. Still, there are other approaches for smaller markets and not aimed at squeezing the little guy. http://www.lambeaufield.com/stadium_info/history/ http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=13683482 FWIW, I wasn't taking sides for or against stadium improvements / new stadiums, etc. Simply stating that just because Ralph won't do it (a negative premise), doesn't really prove a hypothetical stadium improvement couldn't be done without raising taxes, etc.
Doc Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 What is the situation with Jerry Jones? Is it becoming obvious that he overreached? I read accounts that he could have built his stadium for 40% or more less. But he insisted on the going for the gold instead of the brass. What's the scoop? There have been no reports about whether he's met revenue projections, so time will tell. But it's clear he overreached.
seq004 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 How about the Ralph meddles to much or the Ralph doesn't spend his money wisely, or even Ralph doesn't pay for a front office, can I use any of those?
JohnC Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 There have been no reports about whether he's met revenue projections, so time will tell. But it's clear he overreached. As time passes and more events are added to his Palace the financial outlook should stabilize. In addition, when the business climate improves he should be able to get a substantial naming right deal to improve the cash flow. The problem with his gold mentality and expensive tastes is that he has limited the market for his stadium usage. If he would have been more responsible in building his facility more events could be held with a cheaper rental. The expanded SB seating fiasco captures the "got to get more" foolishness that is likely to sabotage his own self.
billsfreak Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Linky ESPN Tim Graham reported the following: Of the 226 players under contract in the AFC East, only 62 of them (27.4 percent) will make base salaries of $1 million or more. NY J-E-S-T-S Players with base salaries of $1 million or more: 14 Players under contract: 57 Percentage of roster making $1 million or more: 24.6% NewEn Gland Pats* Players with base salaries of $1 million or more: 14 Players under contract: 60 Percentage of roster making $1 million or more: 23.3% Miami Dolphags Players with base salaries of $1 million or more: 15 Players under contract: 55 Percentage of roster making $1 million or more: 27.3% Buffalo Bills Players with base salaries of $1 million or more: 19 Players under contract: 54 Percentage of roster making $1 million or more: 35.2% Of course, this is fuel for the fires of the "Ralph is a senile old bat and doesn't have a clue what's going on, and Buffalo has to overpay for its talent because it's such a lousy place to live... re, re, re..." gang of self-loathing Bills fans. Ralph is Cheap, there is a salary cap but there is also a minimum salary that he has to pay his roster-so it can only be so low. Where he has been the cheapest and the area that has had, and continues to the current day to have the biggest negative impact on the success of the team is how he nickels and dimes to hire front office personnel and coaches. For anyone not in a coma, that isn't even arguable. His failure to spend money on people who decide where to spend the money results in the Bills having, if my memory serves me, the Bills, owners of one of the worst defenses in the NFL have 13 defensive players making over a million dollars next year, not counting Poz or Whitner if they were to come back. If they do, that would be 15 players making over a million dollars for a pathetic defense. That proves the point I am making all by itself. Edited March 7, 2011 by billsfreak
The Wiz Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Who is the Buffalo Bills highest paid player, Lee Evans...will he even be a Buffalo Bill next season? Anyway, looking at Maybin and Kelsay...does anyone have any realistic trust that this band of old guys will select a player that will actually earn 3rd spot $$, and contribute next season. How much money has Maybin been paid since he joined the Bills, his primary role is to sack the QB at DE/OLB....how many sacks does he currently have? First round pick John McCargo, how'd that pick work out.... CJ Spiller was supposed to make the O line block better, remember that line? he was supposed to be an exciting to RB....a guy that can't block, the #9 pick in the first round that can't outplay older free agent walk-on in Fred Jackson in any area. He had just 26 carries for 122 yards(4.69 YPC avg) makes you think the guy wasn't smart enough to learn the offense or blocking schemes, which made him a liability in all phases of the offense. 5 year 25M contract with 20.8 guaranteed So many of the players drafted by this franchise in the first round the last decade, I'd be hesitant to even call some of them good enough to be considered mediocre Based on this, I wouldn't be too upset if they traded their first for a later first and then traded that first and stock piled 2nd and 3rd round picks.
KD in CA Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Ralph is not cheap. The Bills spend money, they just overpay for mediocre players because both and Ralph and his front office are inept. Yup.
eball Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 You're not talking about Kay Stephenson and Stew Barber are you? I think he was talking about Hank Bullough.
akm0404 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 The Bills are always toward the middle of the pack in spending, so the notion that Ralph is "cheap" has always been misguided. The problem isn't that he'll spend money, it's that he won't pay the good money for top-notch NFL front office personnel. He doesn't know them, and if he does and they do well, he'll have an ego battle with them and let them go.
Turbosrrgood Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Uhh, those numbers don't prove that Ralph "isn't cheap", they just prove the Bills management has been awful. I know some want to be loyal to the life long owner of the Bills, but defending his cheapness is a sign of denial. The last several years the Bills have been intentionally living under the salary cap. The only free agents the Bills have seriously gone after have are all have careers threatened by injury, or are over the hill (Merriman, Sanders, TO (no one else would take him, we got him cheap), Cornell Green). Making them far cheaper than in their prime. What about the few years with NO GM and a marketing guy leading the organization? Selling us out to Toronto to "Widen the market" despite the fact that no one in Toronto gives a @#$% about the Bills. Hiring the cheapest coaches money can buy... I second the comment on the apparent lack of an effort to keep the team in Buffalo, post Ralph. All this despite the fact Bills have not had trouble selling tickets. Face it, Ralph is cheap Edited March 7, 2011 by Turbosrrgood
NaPolian8693 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Ralph is not cheap. The Bills spend money, they just overpay for mediocre players because both and Ralph and his front office are inept. Very rarely does a first post just completely take care of a thread so well. Nice. Anyone who thinks Ralph is cheap on players should just do a quick Google on NFL Payrolls. The Bills don't spend the most, but they do spend more than average. One could more successfully argue that Ralph is cheap on coaching and management, though - perhaps partly because he has wrongly believed that he is personally adept at player evaluation and team management. It's just a poorly run franchise in an unattractive city. You can't be both of those things. People don't want to come here for both reasons. Edited March 7, 2011 by NaPolian8693
Turbosrrgood Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Anyone who thinks Ralph is cheap on players should just do a quick Google on NFL Payrolls. The Bills don't spend the most, but they do spend more than average. Payroll is alone is not useful for determining Ralph's "cheapness". There is a minimum and maximum salary cap (or at least there was), meaning teams payrolls are only going to flux so much. Ralph was adamant about not spending up to the cap limit, and was public about it. In terms for what you actually get for that payroll, the Bills got shafted by the Ralphs long term "friends" that he has had running the organization. Lol, we didn't even have a GM (must have saved him a fortune)for a while. And while Chan is a step up over Jauron IMO, he was basically the cheapest guy he could get. It seemed like Ralph was putting legit resources into the team back in the Donahue days, but when that proved futile and they passed the last CBA he went into full penny pincher mode. It's like he gave up Edited March 7, 2011 by Turbosrrgood
thewildrabbit Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 The Bills are always toward the middle of the pack in spending, so the notion that Ralph is "cheap" has always been misguided. The problem isn't that he'll spend money, it's that he won't pay the good money for top-notch NFL front office personnel. He doesn't know them, and if he does and they do well, he'll have an ego battle with them and let them go. That indeed seems to be part of the problem, RW has been a notoriously cantankerous owner with his nose in everything that transpires at OBD....this main fact would seem to limit what type of coaches and GMs he can hire to run his team IMO Its not the fact that the guy isn't smart enough to hire top qualified front office personnel a top GM-President, or even pay them, its who would be willing to work with this man when he micro manages the team from his home in Detroit. I read here that he was on the phone to Chan Gailey every day for hours during the season, I'm sure he probably does the same thing with GM Budday Nix. This might be the reason why some men interviewed for the HCing job here in Buffalo and declined the job. Also, the man knew enough to hire top people at the right time in Bill Polian and Chuck Knox., so he does know the difference between a good head coach and a bad one. Another factor might be that RW doesn't want a take charge type of coach like Mike Shanahan or Bills Cowher, he wants someone who he can easily manipulate and control. Not a day goes by that I read in these forums that someone posts about how Marv Levy screwed the Bills when he was GM, funny how the guy who hired him doesn't get lambasted at all like Levy does, how about the fact that the team sucked before he was hired, sucked while he was GM and sucked after he retired. You want to blame someone for the 2000-2010 decade of losing and no playoffs, blame the man who was president of the team for most of that time. If Tom Donahoe and Marv Levy both failed at their jobs... who then should take responsibility for hiring them in the first place. Yea, thats right Mr Ralph Wilson, current president of the Buffalo Bills.
3rdand12 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Yes i think you are right Harvey. There is one person who runs the show and that man is Mr. Wilson. If we do well we can thank him if we do not, especially for such long stretches, well its on him. So whether are not Ralph is cheap may not be an issue so much as Ralph is not the best owner he might be. Loves the team and all it has meant i bet but winning should be important, a priority really. I have lived in Rochester area for almost 40 years now and i hope to live long enough for the Bills to win a a super bowl for Buffalo. That why i started exercising and eating better! haha
Helpmenow Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 He's cheap at hiring coaches From day one of ownership.
akm0404 Posted March 9, 2011 Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) Payroll is alone is not useful for determining Ralph's "cheapness". There is a minimum and maximum salary cap (or at least there was), meaning teams payrolls are only going to flux so much. The figures that NaPolian is referencing do not merely include player salaries. Ralph spends more than average on the team, he just does it poorly. Edited March 9, 2011 by akm0404
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