Beerball Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The facemask against Tony Gonzalez tonight wasn't reviewable according to Michaels and Madden. Gonzalez got dragged down by the mask on a play that was reveiwed. The TD was not allowed, and the boys in the booth said that the facemask could not be called on review. So tell me why the ref yesterday called the penalty on the punt? Our gunner was forced out of bounds and came back in and was the first to touch the ball. This was missed, and Cleveland had the ball at the four. Cleveland threw the red flag...not about the penalty, but placement. After review the ref comes back out and says some stojan about in the course of reviewing the play... I had never seen that before, and my understanding was that the challenge had to be specific. Lori? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgun5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The facemask against Tony Gonzalez tonight wasn't reviewable according to Michaels and Madden. Gonzalez got dragged down by the mask on a play that was reveiwed. The TD was not allowed, and the boys in the booth said that the facemask could not be called on review. So tell me why the ref yesterday called the penalty on the punt? Our gunner was forced out of bounds and came back in and was the first to touch the ball. This was missed, and Cleveland had the ball at the four. Cleveland threw the red flag...not about the penalty, but placement. After review the ref comes back out and says some stojan about in the course of reviewing the play... I had never seen that before, and my understanding was that the challenge had to be specific. Lori? Anyone? 159290[/snapback] One is a judgement call, the other isn't...and as for your 2nd question, once a play is reviewed, ALL reviewable aspects of that play are scrutinizable. <--is that a word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 One is a judgement call, the other isn't. 159291[/snapback] Again, how is facemasking a judgement call? How is PI a judgement call? How is offsides a judgement call? That's a bogus rule if you are indeed allowed to challenge illegal touching. I tried finding an official NFL rulebook online yesterday and only found the condensed crap on their site. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 One is a judgement call, the other isn't. 159291[/snapback] Help me some more. Seeing someone get dragged down by the facemask is judgement? Seeing someone running out of bounds is fact? Not trying to be stuupid, I just don't get this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgun5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Help me some more. Seeing someone get dragged down by the facemask is judgement? Seeing someone running out of bounds is fact? Not trying to be stuupid, I just don't get this. 159294[/snapback] I don't think that's a stupid question...Sure, in this case, there's really no question that a call was missed, but think of "holding". Whether "holding" occurs is a judgement call, and could probably be called on every play. Could you imagine it being reviewable? Also, think of facemask severity...That is also a judgement call. I know what you're saying, and I would listen to arguments for having "blatent" missed penalties be reviewable (if there was a way to do it that could keep it from being abused), but other than clear cut things like illegal touching, it'd be tough to add penalty issues to the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgun5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Again, how is facemasking a judgement call? How is PI a judgement call? How is offsides a judgement call? That's a bogus rule if you are indeed allowed to challenge illegal touching. I tried finding an official NFL rulebook online yesterday and only found the condensed crap on their site. CW 159293[/snapback] The NFL defines them as judgement calls, so they are. I know that's not much of an answer, but they make the rules... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The NFL defines them as judgement calls, so they are. I know that's not much of an answer, but they make the rules... 159301[/snapback] Again, I'd like to see the NFL rulebook where this is explained (and not the watered down fan version). CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgun5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Again, how is facemasking a judgement call? How is PI a judgement call? How is offsides a judgement call? That's a bogus rule if you are indeed allowed to challenge illegal touching. I tried finding an official NFL rulebook online yesterday and only found the condensed crap on their site. CW 159293[/snapback] From nfl.com At the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 From nfl.com At the bottom. 159303[/snapback] That's not the rulebook, that's a press release Sideline plays generally mean catches/stepping out of bounds. I wnat to read the rulebook to see what it says about the penalties. Not sure if that's available anywhere though. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgun5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 That's not the rulebook, that's a press release Sideline plays generally mean catches/stepping out of bounds. I wnat to read the rulebook to see what it says about the penalties. Not sure if that's available anywhere though. CW 159305[/snapback] I see what you mean...Here's the whole rulebook. Rulebook I'm not sure if it's in there, or is "faxed" to each team at the beginning of the year as it "evolves". I'm gonna look through it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgun5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I see what you mean...Here's the whole rulebook. Rulebook I'm not sure if it's in there, or is "faxed" to each team at the beginning of the year as it "evolves". I'm gonna look through it though. 159307[/snapback] Duh...right at the top it says, "THIS IS NOT THE REAL RULEBOOK". LOL. Hmmmm...Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgun5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Duh...right at the top it says, "THIS IS NOT THE REAL RULEBOOK". LOL. Hmmmm...Interesting. 159309[/snapback] Looks as though they only SELL the official book...Shocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Looks as though they only SELL the official book...Shocker. 159311[/snapback] Where do you see a link to buy it? Depending on the cost, I might be intersted... (I alerady have the official highschool rulebooks from when I officiated HS games... ) CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgun5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Where do you see a link to buy it? Depending on the cost, I might be intersted... (I alerady have the official highschool rulebooks from when I officiated HS games... ) CW 159313[/snapback] With all of the useless stuff (that you'd already gone through) I''ve posted in this thread, it's nice to be able to give you something that might help. Buy the NFL again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 With all of the useless stuff (that you'd already gone through) I''ve posted in this thread, it's nice to be able to give you something that might help. Buy the NFL again 159317[/snapback] Now I have to debate whether to buy this or to wait until the 2005-2006 season (since there are always rule changes...) Thanks for the link though! CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 With all of the useless stuff (that you'd already gone through) I''ve posted in this thread, it's nice to be able to give you something that might help. Buy the NFL again 159317[/snapback] Just what every football geek needs for Christmas. Fez I'll let you read it and you can supply the cliff notes (free of charge of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgun5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Just what every football geek needs for Christmas. Fez I'll let you read it and you can supply the cliff notes (free of charge of course). 159321[/snapback] Seriously, it'd be good if someone here had it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgun5 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 AHA!!! The Official NFL Instant Replay Rules (from Official Rules of the NFL published by Triumph): "For the 2001, 2002, and 2003 seasons only, the League will employ a system of Referee Replay Review to aid officiating for reviewable plays as defined below. Prior to the two-minute warning of each half, a Coaches' Challenge System will be in effect. After the two-minute warning of each half, and throughout any overtime period, a Referee Review will be initiated by a Replay Assistant form a Replay Booth comparable to the location of the coaches' booth or Press Box. The following procedures will be used: Coaches' Challenge: In each game, a team will be permitted a maximum of two challenges that will initiate Referee Replay reviews. Each challenge will require the use of a team timeout. If a challenge is upheld, the timeout will be restored to the challenging team, but a challenge will never be restored. No challenges will be recognized from a team that has exhausted its timeouts. Replay Assistant's Request for Review: After the two-minute warning of each half, and throughout any overtime period, any Referee Review will be initiated by a Replay Assistant. There is no limit to the number of Referee Reviews that may be initiated by the Replay Assistant. His ability to initiate a review will be unrelated to the number of timeouts that either team has remaining, and no timeout will be charged for any review initiated by the Replay Assistant. Reviews by Referee: All Replay Reviews will be conducted by the Referee on a field-level monitor after consultation with the other covering official(s), prior to review. A decision will be reversed only when the Referee has indisputable visual evidence available to him that warrants the change. Time Limit: Each review will be a maximum of 90 seconds in length, timed from when the Referee begins his review of the replay at the field-level monitor. Reviewable Plays: The Replay System will cover the following play situations only: (a) Plays governed by Sideline, goal Line, End Zone, and End Line: (1) Scoring Plays, including a runner breaking the plane of the goal line. (2) Pass complete/incomplete/intercepted at sideline goal line, end zone, and end line. (3) Runner/receiver in or out of bounds. (4) Recovery of loose ball in or out of bounds. ( b ) Passing Plays: (1) Pass ruled complete/incomplete/intercepted in the field of play. (2) Touching of a forward pass by an ineligible receiver. (3) Touching of a forward pass by a defensive receiver. (4) Quarterback (Passer) forward pass or fumble. (5) Illegal forward pass beyond the line of scrimmage. (6) Illegal forward pass after change of possession. (7) Forward or backward pass thrown from behind the line of scrimmage. ( c ) Other Detectable Infractions: (1) Runner ruled not down by defensive contact. (2) Forward progress with respect to first down. (3) Touching of a kick. (4) Number of players on field." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 was at a Texan game yesterday and Manning gets hammered, loses the ball and they call it incomplete....Texans throw the red thing and they review and its a fumble.....BUT....get this......they say the whistle blew and thus ball is dead and Colts ball even tho Texans recover the fumble...God they just drive you NUTS dont they??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 AHA!!! 159331[/snapback] None of those rules cover giving a penalty via replay. "Touching of a kick" refers to "were his feet in the endzone or not." "Runner/receiver in or out of bounds" refers to "did he step out 10 yards back" type of deal. At least, that's how I take it; however, these aren't the official rules either... However, I do find "Number of players on field" interesting. I bet that was put in after Bill Cower got pissed for the refs missing the 12 men on the field a couple of years ago (when he shoved the printout in the refs pocket before trotting off at halftime). So that's a definate penalty that can be reviewed according to this... CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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