Wonderlic test

[Albany,n.y.]

Are you texting from a phone? I'm not understanding either of your points. I'm not trying to be a Jauron…just not sure what you're saying.

His points seemed quite coherent & logical in reply to your prior post.

 

Point 1-You say it's believable that Nix had nothing to do with the Maybin pick. He replies that no matter how disfunctional the Bills are on draft day, it is not credible that the Bills brought Nix in to help them in the draft, named him the national scout & then ignored him entirely when it came time to use their 1st round pick. My comment-based on Nix's statements upon being hired as Bills' GM, he clearly implied that he wouldn't have selected Maybin, a 1 year wonder. Advantage: SJBF.

 

Point 2-You basically said someone can't have it both ways. If you blame Nix for Maybin, you have to credit him for SD's drafts. Spartacus counters that AJ Smith may have had total control in SD and that you can't assume that Nix was responsible for AJ's success in the draft. Also, Ralph may view Nix as the answer to the Bills draft woes, but the way Ralph feels about his employees & the level of responsibility he gives them has no correlation to what AJ Smith/SD did. AJ could have ignored Nix entirely or used his picks, but you can't assume because Ralph values Nix's opinions that AJ felt the same about Nix. Advantage: Spartacus.

[BADOLBILZ]

As someone who had done a lo of reading on the Wonderlic, my opinion, and that of people in football, is that the Wonderlic scores for RBs is probably has the least relevancy to any position. RB is about talent and vision and reaction. A lot of very good RBs have poor Wonderlics. I'm not saying Spiller is smart, I'm saying its not very relevant. Sure, he needs to learn some things and get better and realize he's not going to outrun everyone, but that's part of the jump to the NFL.

 

Chris Johnson has a 10 on his first try but miraculously had a 25 on his second (like JP Losman, you can coach them to memorize and them retake the test but the initial score is always more in line with reality). His pre-draft scouting reports questioned his work in the classroom so the 10 seems to back that up. Does Chris Johnson suck? Nope.

 

By the way, 20 is considered average intelligence. Adrian Peterson got a 16, well below average as well. Does he suck?

 

Don't cherry pick stupid stats and reports to attempt to make a point unless you can adequately explain them and futher back them up. Nothing worse than saying "CJ got a 10, no wonder he sucks" and then not follow it with any proof that the 10 has specific meaning for RBs. It's even particularly laughable when simple comparisons using Wonderlic scores shows that it's not all that relevant considering his peers.

 

FAIL

 

This would be a nice argument BEFORE it became obvious that Spiller was learning disabled.

 

It's just a bit late now, isn't it?

 

For some, their discovery of the wonderlic score of CJ Spiller is a kind of autopsy on the season where he became the FIRST in a long line of not too bright Bills running backs that couldn't learn the playbook.

 

It was obviously public knowledge LAST YEAR that he was the dunce of the NFL wonderlic class of 2010, but like you and me, most people assumed it wouldn't matter and completely discounted it. He's just a RB, after all.

 

We stand corrected.

 

He was even dumb enough to tell Tasker and Gus that he was having a hard time processing the play calls.......because at Clemson....... they held up a big sign from the sideline with the play on it........but in the NFL the QB called the play in the huddle. Such a tough transition.

[Ramius]

Its amazing the lengths some people (who are obviously losers in life) will go to to denigrate a player because they are unhappy with his performance on the field.

 

Everything about Spiller last year was positive. Loads of talent, high character, spotless work ethic, intelligence. Yet the people here cling to a meaningless wonderlic score that they most likely wouldn't beat to trash a guy.

 

Bills have the best/most intelligent fans? Complete BS.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Ramius

[dave mcbride]

This would be a nice argument BEFORE it became obvious that Spiller was learning disabled.

 

It's just a bit late now, isn't it?

 

For some, their discovery of the wonderlic score of CJ Spiller is a kind of autopsy on the season where he became the FIRST in a long line of not too bright Bills running backs that couldn't learn the playbook.

 

It was obviously public knowledge LAST YEAR that he was the dunce of the NFL wonderlic class of 2010, but like you and me, most people assumed it wouldn't matter and completely discounted it. He's just a RB, after all.

 

We stand corrected.

 

He was even dumb enough to tell Tasker and Gus that he was having a hard time processing the play calls.......because at Clemson....... they held up a big sign from the sideline with the play on it........but in the NFL the QB called the play in the huddle. Such a tough transition.

LOL!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

His points seemed quite coherent & logical in reply to your prior post.

 

Point 1-You say it's believable that Nix had nothing to do with the Maybin pick. He replies that no matter how disfunctional the Bills are on draft day, it is not credible that the Bills brought Nix in to help them in the draft, named him the national scout & then ignored him entirely when it came time to use their 1st round pick. My comment-based on Nix's statements upon being hired as Bills' GM, he clearly implied that he wouldn't have selected Maybin, a 1 year wonder. Advantage: SJBF.

 

Point 2-You basically said someone can't have it both ways. If you blame Nix for Maybin, you have to credit him for SD's drafts. Spartacus counters that AJ Smith may have had total control in SD and that you can't assume that Nix was responsible for AJ's success in the draft. Also, Ralph may view Nix as the answer to the Bills draft woes, but the way Ralph feels about his employees & the level of responsibility he gives them has no correlation to what AJ Smith/SD did. AJ could have ignored Nix entirely or used his picks, but you can't assume because Ralph values Nix's opinions that AJ felt the same about Nix. Advantage: Spartacus.

Are you texting from a phone because…just kidding.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

To point number two, again I was speaking about the Maybin pick.

 

At that time, Nix was the National Scout with primary duties in the Southeast.

 

At the time of the Maybin pick, Ralph was/is the owner. Russ Brandon was the GM. Jauron was the Head Coach, and Modrak was Director of College Scouting. That puts Nix at 5th…at best…in the decision ring.

 

Fifth…at best.

 

From articles I've read about NFL war rooms, I've seen where quite often the scouts aren't even allowed into the room. That all of their work is done before the draft. On draft day, it's out of their hands.

 

In San Diego, Nix was (for 4 years) Assistant GM and Director of Player Personnel.

 

Based upon my evidence (I'd love to hear what Spartacus has to say) I think it's much more plausible that Nix had a big say in San Diego's drafts and very little say in the drafting of Maybin and the draft class of 2009.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

Its amazing the lengths some people (who are obviously losers in life) will go to to denigrate a player because they are unhappy with his performance on the field.

 

Everything about Spiller last year was positive. Loads of talent, high character, spotless work ethic, intelligence. Yet the people here cling to a meaningless wonderlic score that they most likely wouldn't beat to trash a guy.

 

Bills have the best/most intelligent fans? Complete BS.

 

I don't even know how to describe your post. Part Baghdad Bob and part PMS?

 

Everything was positive?

 

He ran for 283 yards, had a 3.8 ypc and 5 fumbles. Those aren't #8 pick in the draft numbers. Those are UDFA numbers, except the UDFA doesn't get a chance to keep fumbling.

 

He showed intelligence?

 

When?

 

My advice: delete that post before someone makes it into a sig line

Edited February 21, 2011 by BADOLBILZ

[spartacus]

His points seemed quite coherent & logical in reply to your prior post.

 

Point 1-You say it's believable that Nix had nothing to do with the Maybin pick. He replies that no matter how disfunctional the Bills are on draft day, it is not credible that the Bills brought Nix in to help them in the draft, named him the national scout & then ignored him entirely when it came time to use their 1st round pick. My comment-based on Nix's statements upon being hired as Bills' GM, he clearly implied that he wouldn't have selected Maybin, a 1 year wonder. Advantage: SJBF.

 

Point 2-You basically said someone can't have it both ways. If you blame Nix for Maybin, you have to credit him for SD's drafts. Spartacus counters that AJ Smith may have had total control in SD and that you can't assume that Nix was responsible for AJ's success in the draft. Also, Ralph may view Nix as the answer to the Bills draft woes, but the way Ralph feels about his employees & the level of responsibility he gives them has no correlation to what AJ Smith/SD did. AJ could have ignored Nix entirely or used his picks, but you can't assume because Ralph values Nix's opinions that AJ felt the same about Nix. Advantage: Spartacus.

very good summary !!

 

Your point 1 would be true - if Buddy came out with that comment immediately after the draft and not 1 year later when it was clear Maybin was a turd and Jauron had been fired as the scapegoat.

 

Relying on retroactive self-serving statements that fly in the face of the facts is not really a winning argument

 

 

 

 

 

[Ramius]

I don't even know how to describe your post. Part Baghdad Bob and part PMS?

 

Everything was positive?

 

He ran for 283 yards, had a 3.8 ypc and 5 fumbles. Those aren't #8 pick in the draft numbers. Those are UDFA numbers, except the UDFA doesn't get a chance to keep fumbling.

 

He showed intelligence?

 

When?

 

My advice: delete that post before someone makes it into a sig line

 

It was supposed to say "everything READ" about Spiller, referring to prior to the draft. I wasn't discussing his play on the field, because he did not have a good season. But for some reason, it wouldn't/won't let me edit the post.

 

You're right however. Your incessant whining and now the "durr, spiller is a retard" added so much to the conversation.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Ramius

[Mr. WEO]

The point that was made is that having a low wonderlic score is a contributing factor to a RB's ability and skill level and it was proved incorrect. You have just taken the opportunity to go off topic and use it to slate the Bills (again). For an obviously intelligent person you are one miserable fella.

Not "miserable", brother. Just a different set of expectations, that's all. I don't always read from the script here.

 

Anyway, I was countering the silly comparison to two or three RBs that had no problem "adjusting to the pro game", no matter their wonderlic scores. Defending Spiller's substandard score by mentioning the other (successful) backs made no sense.

 

Anyway--here's the test:

 

http://walterfootball.com/draftwonderlic.php

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Nix was as responsible as anyone else at OBD for Maybin.

 

 

He was brought in as the national scout before the 2009 draft because he had a valuable opinion.

 

With as much as juice as he was bringing from San Diego, there is no way the Bills pick Maybin without Buddy's blessing

 

 

 

To point number two, again I was speaking about the Maybin pick.

 

At that time, Nix was the National Scout with primary duties in the Southeast.

 

At the time of the Maybin pick, Ralph was/is the owner. Russ Brandon was the GM. Jauron was the Head Coach, and Modrak was Director of College Scouting. That puts Nix at 5th…at best…in the decision ring.

 

Fifth…at best.

 

From articles I've read about NFL war rooms, I've seen where quite often the scouts aren't even allowed into the room. That all of their work is done before the draft. On draft day, it's out of their hands.

 

In San Diego, Nix was (for 4 years) Assistant GM and Director of Player Personnel.

 

Based upon my evidence (I'd love to hear what Spartacus has to say) I think it's much more plausible that Nix had a big say in San Diego's drafts and very little say in the drafting of Maybin and the draft class of 2009.

 

 

 

Relying on retroactive self-serving statements that fly in the face of the facts is not really a winning argument

 

 

 

 

 

I know you're never wrong Spartacus.

 

Clearly your once-sentence argument devoid of any evidence is stronger than my argument which cites factual organizational structures.

 

Congratulations on another debate victory.

 

 

[spartacus]

I know you're never wrong Spartacus.

 

Clearly your once-sentence argument devoid of any evidence is stronger than my argument which cites factual organizational structures.

 

Congratulations on another debate victory.

 

 

 

how can you be wrong with Buddy's "it wasn't me" comments 1 year later as the lynch pin of your argument

 

 

I bow to the circularness of your thinking

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

I know you're never wrong Spartacus.

 

Clearly your once-sentence argument devoid of any evidence is stronger than my argument which cites factual organizational structures.

 

Congratulations on another debate victory.

So the Bills took the guy who was "#2" in drafting power at SD (and "responsible" for drafting all that talent) and made him a "national scout" "in charge of "a portion of the southern United States"--perhaps "not even in the room" on draft day in 2009??

 

And the next year made him GM?

 

 

It's all quite plausible...for One Bills Drive--is that what your saying?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

how can you be wrong with Buddy's "it wasn't me" comments 1 year later as the lynch pin of your argument

 

 

I bow to the circularness of your thinking

 

 

Uhhh…that wasn't me, fella.

 

So the Bills took the guy who was "#2" in drafting power at SD (and "responsible" for drafting all that talent) and made him a "national scout" "in charge of "a portion of the southern United States"--perhaps "not even in the room" on draft day in 2009??

 

And the next year made him GM?

 

 

It's all quite plausible...for One Bills Drive--is that what your saying?

Out of respect to both of you, because I know you are both smart, I try as hard as possible to extend the benefit of the doubt to both of you. Perhaps I've overestimated both of you..

 

 

I think it's clear where the preponderance of the evidence lies.

 

Spartacus states that Nix had as much to do with anyone in the drafting of Maybin. The basis for his argument is basically "well, the Bills drafted Maybin didn't they?" Because we all know that there is never discord or disagreement when a group of people are forced to make a "consensus decision."

 

In rebuttal I point out that Ralph, Brandon, Modrak, and Jauron were all ahead of Nix in the decision-making ladder.

 

I'll let others debate the relative merits of each of our reasoning.

 

On a related matter, Spartacus attributes to me, something I didn't write (bolded at the top)…it was posited by the poster Albany, n.y., not me. But by all means, don't let lack of reading comprehension color who you think is more correct in this matter. Just because Spartacus can't regurgitate recent, written history from today doesn't necessarily cast doubt on his version of events that happened many months ago.

 

Spartacus also paints me with the in this manner when he replies to my reply to Dorkington when I used the expression "another thing that's in my craw": "What sticks in my craw are how blind homers continually justify the craptacular performance of the Bills drafts over the last 15 years."

 

As if I'm some blind homer and that my attacks on many aspects of the Bills organization and their horrific drafts don't exist.

 

I'll go ahead and defend myself against unprovoked attacks and criticism. You guys go ahead and do what you do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

This would be a nice argument BEFORE it became obvious that Spiller was learning disabled.

 

It's just a bit late now, isn't it?

 

For some, their discovery of the wonderlic score of CJ Spiller is a kind of autopsy on the season where he became the FIRST in a long line of not too bright Bills running backs that couldn't learn the playbook.

 

It was obviously public knowledge LAST YEAR that he was the dunce of the NFL wonderlic class of 2010, but like you and me, most people assumed it wouldn't matter and completely discounted it. He's just a RB, after all.

 

We stand corrected.

 

He was even dumb enough to tell Tasker and Gus that he was having a hard time processing the play calls.......because at Clemson....... they held up a big sign from the sideline with the play on it........but in the NFL the QB called the play in the huddle. Such a tough transition.

 

 

I think learning disabled would be saying that JP Losman would be a much better QB than Aaron Rodgers like a certain poster did. How did that work out for you Einstein?

 

It was supposed to say "everything READ" about Spiller, referring to prior to the draft. I wasn't discussing his play on the field, because he did not have a good season. But for some reason, it wouldn't/won't let me edit the post.

 

You're right however. Your incessant whining and now the "durr, spiller is a retard" added so much to the conversation.

 

[JohnC]

This would be a nice argument BEFORE it became obvious that Spiller was learning disabled.

 

It's just a bit late now, isn't it?

 

For some, their discovery of the wonderlic score of CJ Spiller is a kind of autopsy on the season where he became the FIRST in a long line of not too bright Bills running backs that couldn't learn the playbook.

 

It was obviously public knowledge LAST YEAR that he was the dunce of the NFL wonderlic class of 2010, but like you and me, most people assumed it wouldn't matter and completely discounted it. He's just a RB, after all.

 

We stand corrected.

 

He was even dumb enough to tell Tasker and Gus that he was having a hard time processing the play calls.......because at Clemson....... they held up a big sign from the sideline with the play on it........but in the NFL the QB called the play in the huddle. Such a tough transition.

 

There is nothing unusual about a player in his first year being overwhelmed with the playbook and the adjustment to the pros. Some people simply can't process the complexity of the pro game at the rate that most other players can. With respect to Spiller I was disappointed with his rookie year struggles. Watching him you can tell that there was something wrong. It's now obvious that he simply wasn't sure of what his responsibilities were. Being hesitant is disasterous for any position but especially for a back who needs to act instinctly.

 

Everything I have read about him leads one to believe that he is a diligent person and is willing to put in the time and effort to be adequately prepared. I'm confident that this year with a season under his belt and an offseason of working with the coaching staff he will exhibit the special talent that he displayed in a sterling college career.

 

I have a lot of qualms with the leaking of the wonderlic scores. More often than not they are used to denigrate and unfairly label people. Spiller doesn't deserve that treatment, nobody does.

 

There are not many playmakers on the roster. He is one of them. Regardless what his wonderlic score is his play this year will speak for itself.

[BADOLBILZ]

I think learning disabled would be saying that JP Losman would be a much better QB than Aaron Rodgers like a certain poster did. How did that work out for you Einstein?

 

Unlike like yourself, the unabashed die-hard supporter of Dick Jauron(who you laughably equated until the very end to Bill Belichick) GM Marv Levy and pretty much every stupid thing the Bils have done in recent years.....I will admit when I am wrong.

 

I did think Losman was a much better PROSPECT and that's exactly how I put it when Rodgers was going thru the draft process. Guys like Losman and Rodgers weren't premier talents, they were projections. Rodgers panned out, Losman did not.

 

It's laughable that in all the years I have been posting here, you had to go back like 6 years to find an incidence where I was clearly wrong. Something you are guilty of virtually every time you type in your truly idiotic ramblings.

 

That by no means meant I thought Losman would be as good as Manning, Rivers and Roethlisberger. Never said that and never would. They were clearly better.

 

Of course, the Pack too reportedly wanted badly to draft Losman but the Bills moved ahead of them.

 

Then they drafted Rodgers the next season, and then AFTER HAVING RODGERS IN CAMP FOR A FULL SEASON, felt the need to draft Brian Brohm in round 2.

 

The Super Bowl champions, arguably the best drafting team in the past 5 years, weren't even committed to him as their QB of the future.

 

So, I guess I just don't feel too bad that my distant evaluation somehow was wrong. But if that's all you got, cling to it. It's like the exception that proves the rule and I like that.

 

And for good measure, the Packers future HC, Mike McCarthy, was the OC in San Francisco when the choice of Alex Smith or Rodgers had to be made. They chose Smith.

 

Alex Smith and Rodgers at the top of the QB list in that draft made a year like this one, with established succesful SEC QB's like Newton and Mallett look like the class of 83' by comparison.

 

 

 

And as for you Ramius, you were dumb enough to post it in the first place. Own it or delete it. Don't be a coward!

[BADOLBILZ]

It was supposed to say "everything READ" about Spiller, referring to prior to the draft. I wasn't discussing his play on the field, because he did not have a good season. But for some reason, it wouldn't/won't let me edit the post.

 

You're right however. Your incessant whining and now the "durr, spiller is a retard" added so much to the conversation.

 

In retrospect, you probably SHOULD have written it that way. Perhaps a midol would have been in order. Instead, it was kinda' hillarious, too bad this thread is so long and most people have missed it.

 

As for my "incessant whining"....compare our post counts. I think 2800 posts in 10 years is a rather modest count compared to your 15,000 mostly ill conceived ramblings in less.

 

The one underlying theme in your posts is that you think you are better than everyone here. When you are challenged on an issue, you always try to tie that opinion to someones life choices and stature.

 

If you don't like the performance of a player, then obviously you are some kind of professional failure.

 

Reign it in young man, it's not becoming of a man of your superior stature.

 

There is nothing unusual about a player in his first year being overwhelmed with the playbook and the adjustment to the pros.

 

I don't know if you have been following this thread closely, but the issues with Spiller are quite unusual.

Edited February 22, 2011 by BADOLBILZ

[Lurker]

At that time, Nix was the National Scout with primary duties in the Southeast.

 

At the time of the Maybin pick, Ralph was/is the owner. Russ Brandon was the GM. Jauron was the Head Coach, and Modrak was Director of College Scouting. That puts Nix at 5th…at best…in the decision ring.

 

Fifth…at best.

 

From articles I've read about NFL war rooms, I've seen where quite often the scouts aren't even allowed into the room. That all of their work is done before the draft. On draft day, it's out of their hands.

 

In San Diego, Nix was (for 4 years) Assistant GM and Director of Player Personnel.

 

Based upon my evidence (I'd love to hear what Spartacus has to say) I think it's much more plausible that Nix had a big say in San Diego's drafts and very little say in the drafting of Maybin and the draft class of 2009.

Spot on...

[Kevin]

All you have to do is go back and watch the film (for when he was actually on the field) and count the number of times that the QB had to point him in the right direction. This went on all season long, not just the first couple games. I hope he's putting in some serious study time so that the team can actually use him in the way that Gailey envisioned when he was drafted.

 

Here's a link

 

 

Alright so I clicked on the link, and saw the sample wonderlic. I took it and score a 27.5. That was a hard test too.

[downunderbill]

I am keeping a tally of all the posters who say that CJ Spiller is not a good running back.....

 

Not a I told you so guy.....but that is just so ridiculous. Maybe he got off to a slow start.....but anyone who thinks CJ Spiller is not going to be a player in this league man I dont even know what to tell you.

 

TOO MUCH TALENT not to turn it around......and if the Bills evaluators were wrong on CJ then so was EVERBODY else.....he was picked right where he should be.

 

I agree, IMO he'll improve with a better offensive line. then again i'm no expert.

 

 

Even a total dumbass with 4.3 speed could have tore it up behind the Clemson line. All he had to do was run through those HUGE holes and outrun everyone to the EZ.

 

 

There it is.