NoSaint Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) This is the best thread I have seen in a long time...so many people ringing their hands over the fact that that Stroud has been cut, but Maybust and McCargo-bust are still on the team. Sing the House of Blues and taser Whitner for me - okay? Yeah right, the money is good to keep the busts on the team...the same with Lee Evans, lil Donte and Kelsey - right? This is why the Bills are going backwards instead of keeping pace with the rest of the AFC East. It doesn't matter that these players (Maybust, McCarbust, Lee Evans, lil Donte and Kelsey) can't compete, their math is right and they are look good in the locker room. Maybe because they are good interview guys that the Bills keep them on the team..."Yeah, we need to play better.", "Yeah, it is time to step up." year after year after year... Same ole same ole...nothing has changed at OBD. The positive additions have been negated from the subtractions that are due to the mindless use of roster spots and that the math is right. or maybin is due like a million flat, has two years in the league, including one where he was late to the team, and is 6 months older then some of this years draft picks. why not keep him through camp for free. evans is 4 mill this year, a bargain, since his bonus and big money is already done... back when he was producing. either way, no reason to cut. mccargo has an expiring contract. should we cut him a week early saving no money and giving up a comp pick potentially, just on principle alone? whitner has not received his contract yet. in fact last i remembered, he was an awful interview complaining about how the bills were screwing him on twitter, but it looks like he might be coming back with his tail tucked between his legs taking a lower offer hopefully. he is good enough, just not elite money. still a starting caliber player if we can make the $$ work. kelsay, i got nothing. hes just bad, and his pay is huge and it makes no sense to me. hardly worth getting the torches out over this stroud cut -- he seems to be a 4th-5th end at best who likely wasnt on the team. i wouldnt at all be surprised if the decision was mutual. sometimes guys just dont fit and when everyones professional things like this work out, much like they just did. he thanks the organization, and gets a chance to find a home, we get a chance to save time, money and coaching for younger players that actually belong in a 34, and that will be contributing this year. Edited February 17, 2011 by NoSaint
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 per PFT Liked his effort but production just wasn't there, now #99 becomes Quinn!!!
Ramius Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Ramius thinks the Bills showed good corporate form so the windfall from all the goodwill can't be far off. Look back over the years, and there are typically a handful or more older vets that get released in February because their teams aren't going to keep them and they don't fit in with future plans. It gives the vets a chance to latch on with a new team before free agency. Try to keep up next time. There's no point to taking someone you aren't going to keep to training camp, where they'll do nothing but take reps away from the players that WILL be playing for your team next season.
Bill from NYC Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 This is the best thread I have seen in a long time...so many people ringing their hands over the fact that that Stroud has been cut, but Maybust and McCargo-bust are still on the team. Sing the House of Blues and taser Whitner for me - okay? Yeah right, the money is good to keep the busts on the team...the same with Lee Evans, lil Donte and Kelsey - right? This is why the Bills are going backwards instead of keeping pace with the rest of the AFC East. It doesn't matter that these players (Maybust, McCarbust, Lee Evans, lil Donte and Kelsey) can't compete, their math is right and they are look good in the locker room. Maybe because they are good interview guys that the Bills keep them on the team..."Yeah, we need to play better.", "Yeah, it is time to step up." year after year after year... Same ole same ole...nothing has changed at OBD. The positive additions have been negated from the subtractions that are due to the mindless use of roster spots and that the math is right. Sadly, there is some merit to this post. What concerns me is that Stroud is at least strong. The Bills are an NFL football team and oddly, their roster really doesn't seem to have many players at all that one would consider to be strong by NFL standards. Is there a weaker, smaller LT in the league than Bell for instance? I remember last season where Whitner and McKelvin both got knocked on their asses by TO on the same play. These were early first round picks by Dick Levy getting shoved to the turf at will. The Bills get pushed back all the time on both sides of the ball. Until this changes, they will of course lose. I am fine with a qb at #3 if they really think the guy will be great. That said, the overall situation would make me happy to see Fairley as well. At least he would beat some people up, and offer us more of a chance to compete against physical teams like the jets.
JohnC Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Sadly, there is some merit to this post. What concerns me is that Stroud is at least strong. The Bills are an NFL football team and oddly, their roster really doesn't seem to have many players at all that one would consider to be strong by NFL standards. Is there a weaker, smaller LT in the league than Bell for instance? I remember last season where Whitner and McKelvin both got knocked on their asses by TO on the same play. These were early first round picks by Dick Levy getting shoved to the turf at will. The Bills get pushed back all the time on both sides of the ball. Until this changes, they will of course lose. That said, the overall situation would make me happy to see Fairley as well. At least he would beat some people up, and offer us more of a chance to compete against physical teams like the jets. I'm not telling you anything you are not aware of but the team Nix/Gailey inhereited is in the process of being dismantled. It seems to me that the organization is going to do it through the draft with little boost from free agency. That falls within the owner's warning of: pain and patience. Looking at our roster compared to our divisional opponents such as the Jets and Pats the Bills are like the scrawny kid in the gym next to the muscle boys. The Bills have a long way to go before they can reasonably compete. I am fine with a qb at #3 if they really think the guy will be great. If you accept the reality that the Bills are years away from challenging the Pats and Jets then wouldn't it be smart to snatch a franchise qb when you are in position to do so? Once that position is anchored with a legitimate franchise qb then the rebuilding process can continue with the most important position already accounted for. As it currently stands I'm not sure the Bills are going to be much better than they were last year. I'm not sure most people realize how much damage and set back in years the Jauron/Levy tandom did to this franchise. It is so sad.
billsfreak Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Here's a suggestion, get a replacement and THEN cut him.With a lockout just around the corner, it's not inconcievable that there will be a freeze on player movement which could lead to a free agency period that begins only weeks before the start of the season. Teams with players under contract could be at a great advantage if this happens. Unless this is about saving bonus money, this move makes zero sense at this time. I totally agree, it would only be common sense, but then again using common sense isn't the Bills way. It is highly possible that the new CBA comes into agreement late summer or so and the training camp/free agency/trading periods are all abreviated and a rushed to the point where there might not be alot of time for players to discuss contracts with multiple teams, etc. and we all know how much the majority of players want to come to Buffalo. I am as hopeful as any Bills fan that eventually this team will turn around, but this front office seems no different than the past few in that most of the moves they make don't seem well thought through or they are just plain clueless.
Dr. Fong Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Hope you are joking.. 48 games and 7 1/2 sacks? We can do better.. much better. He is absolutely not better than anything else we have. Carrington is not a rookie and neither is Spencer. Do you even watch the games? I never said either Carrington or Johnson were rookies. Just not good enough to keep Stroud off the field. If they were then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The point I was making is don't keep casting off players before you have a capable replacement. As far as the sacks, Stroud isn't a pass rusher. He is a 4-3 DT playing DE because the Bills seem to think you can just magically switch to a 3-4 without any of the personnel need. It's just another in a long line of stupid mistakes that have kept the Bills in the cellar and will continue to keep the Bills in the cellar.
stony Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I totally agree, it would only be common sense, but then again using common sense isn't the Bills way. It is highly possible that the new CBA comes into agreement late summer or so and the training camp/free agency/trading periods are all abreviated and a rushed to the point where there might not be alot of time for players to discuss contracts with multiple teams, etc. and we all know how much the majority of players want to come to Buffalo. I am as hopeful as any Bills fan that eventually this team will turn around, but this front office seems no different than the past few in that most of the moves they make don't seem well thought through or they are just plain clueless. Good. We want FAs to make rash decisions and not think over their options if they're going to decide to come to Buffalo. Just remember, we're talking about an aging, somewhat expensive, systematic non-fit here. I think some people are unfairly putting the blame on Buffalo here. Can you honestly say you expected more from Stroud next season then someone like Carrington. Both didn't do much, but I'll take the younger, cheaper, more athletic guy. Maybe they're saving money because they plan on trading up in the draft or plan on signing a quality RT in FA.
Bill from NYC Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I'm not telling you anything you are not aware of but the team Nix/Gailey inhereited is in the process of being dismantled. It seems to me that the organization is going to do it through the draft with little boost from free agency. That falls within the owner's warning of: pain and patience. Looking at our roster compared to our divisional opponents such as the Jets and Pats the Bills are like the scrawny kid in the gym next to the muscle boys. The Bills have a long way to go before they can reasonably compete. If you accept the reality that the Bills are years away from challenging the Pats and Jets then wouldn't it be smart to snatch a franchise qb when you are in position to do so? Once that position is anchored with a legitimate franchise qb then the rebuilding process can continue with the most important position already accounted for. As it currently stands I'm not sure the Bills are going to be much better than they were last year. I'm not sure most people realize how much damage and set back in years the Jauron/Levy tandom did to this franchise. It is so sad. We are in agreement here. I will only stipulate once again the word "great." There is no such thing as a "reach" if you think you can get a top 5 quarterback. I would not want to spend a #3 on a "good" qb, because Fitz IS good imo. Mallett's stock has gone down, but if they think he can be a top 5 qb they should scoop him up, and this is only 1 example. As for the bolded, we are in full agreement. I could see it starting the second they drafted Whitner in 2006. Kyle Williams or not, it was the worst draft I for one have ever seen. We were stacked with early picks, the draft was VERY deep, and Levy himself that teams were lined up to trade up with us. A great many posters knew what was happening too, and it is alarming that message board posters could have done a better job than Levy/Jauron. It's even very hard to believe, but it is 100% true. Honestly, you can't make this s*%t up.
eball Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Just read some of Stroud's comments following his release, and I have to say, he's a very classy guy. Glad he was a part of the Buffalo organization for a few years, and hopefully some of that attitude rubbed off on others.
NoSaint Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Just read some of Stroud's comments following his release, and I have to say, he's a very classy guy. Glad he was a part of the Buffalo organization for a few years, and hopefully some of that attitude rubbed off on others. I've only seen a small amount of his reaction but I get the feeling it was atleast a semi-mutual decision. I think he knew he wasn't a fit for what we were doing and he wanted to go and contribute, hopefully for a winner.
Green Lightning Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Just remember, we're talking about an aging, somewhat expensive, systematic non-fit here. I think some people are unfairly putting the blame on Buffalo here. Can you honestly say you expected more from Stroud next season then someone like Carrington. Both didn't do much, but I'll take the younger, cheaper, more athletic guy. Maybe they're saving money because they plan on trading up in the draft or plan on signing a quality RT in FA. +1. Sorry naysayers, but this is how a team gets better. Moving on from Stroud for all the reasons Stony points out, and using that money on draft picks or FA's. Listening to the FO comments about the move, they are looking at DE's in the draft and after coaching them in the Senior Bowl, must have their eye on a few. So bravo Chan and Buddy. This is how teams improve. When Belecheat does this, it's a brilliant move. When we do it, all the p*ssing and moaning starts.
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 +1. Sorry naysayers, but this is how a team gets better. Moving on from Stroud for all the reasons Stony points out, and using that money on draft picks or FA's. Listening to the FO comments about the move, they are looking at DE's in the draft and after coaching them in the Senior Bowl, must have their eye on a few. So bravo Chan and Buddy. This is how teams improve. When Belecheat does this, it's a brilliant move. When we do it, all the p*ssing and moaning starts. Not so fast. If salary weren't an issue, would you rather have Stroud on this team or not have him? We just lost a solid veteran defensive lineman with a great attitude and solid work ethic. All of these posters who are dismissing Stroud as washed up are out of their minds. This was purely a financial decision by the Bills front office. Mark my words, Stroud will be a valuable addition to the right team (N.E., NYJ, NYG, BAL, PHIL etc) and may cap his career with a ring. Now, obviously he will probably have to settle for half of what he would have made here ($1mil bonus and $5,5 mil salary) but anyone who thinks that we are so much better without him are disconnected from reality.
Rockinon Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) I never said either Carrington or Johnson were rookies. Just not good enough to keep Stroud off the field. If they were then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The point I was making is don't keep casting off players before you have a capable replacement. As far as the sacks, Stroud isn't a pass rusher. He is a 4-3 DT playing DE because the Bills seem to think you can just magically switch to a 3-4 without any of the personnel need. It's just another in a long line of stupid mistakes that have kept the Bills in the cellar and will continue to keep the Bills in the cellar. Stroud's reputation is what kept Stroud on the field, not Carrington's performance. He was, after all just a rookie. Edited February 18, 2011 by Rockinon
billsfan89 Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 Our run defense has been porous 2 out of the 3 seasons he was here (And wasn't that much better in his first year). To top that off he doesn't really fit our scheme. I would rather take a chance on a rookie or try to pick up another vet in free agency that would fit our scheme. It might also be a cap cutting measure the guy was one of our top paid guys (If the new CBA brings a cap getting Stroud off the books helps us acquire better talent).
Nuncha Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 +1 He was THE worst DLman we had all last season. I'll put it this way, Kelsay played better at LB than Stroud did at DE last season. That's how bad he was. I wonder if this move is indicative of the Bills' draft plan. GO BILLS!!! Absolutely - He was awful at DE. Later Marcus.
Cal Bill's Fan Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I don't think he had zero trade value. Getting nothing from a guy who had 2 years left on a contract, and had something left to give? This is just another dumb move by the Bills. Save RW's money for all those free agents they are signing, or top round QB's they are drafting, or... well never mind, save all the $ for Ralph's heir's. This is how a team stays a bottom dweller. I know he wasn't great, but he could play, suited up for every game, wasn't hurt. The only reason this makes sense is short term $ savings. When football sense isn't running the team, the Bills will stay crap. They should have traded for a low round pick or a player with potential but coming off injury, legal problems, etc. But to get nothing. Oy we suck again!
NoSaint Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 I don't think he had zero trade value. Getting nothing from a guy who had 2 years left on a contract, and had something left to give? This is just another dumb move by the Bills. Save RW's money for all those free agents they are signing, or top round QB's they are drafting, or... well never mind, save all the $ for Ralph's heir's. This is how a team stays a bottom dweller. I know he wasn't great, but he could play, suited up for every game, wasn't hurt. The only reason this makes sense is short term $ savings. When football sense isn't running the team, the Bills will stay crap. They should have traded for a low round pick or a player with potential but coming off injury, legal problems, etc. But to get nothing. Oy we suck again! A) no trades w/o a CBA B)he had no trade value. 5.5 mil made sure of that.
K-9 Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 A) no trades w/o a CBA B)he had no trade value. 5.5 mil made sure of that. Some of the worst defensive end play in Bills history made sure of that. In all fairness to Stroud he was playing a position he's not suited for but it was really hard to watch him at times. He was just terrible. As bad as Kelsay was a OLB so was Stroud at DE. And it's REALLY difficult to be as poor as Kelsay was at OLB. GO BILLS!!!
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