Meathead Posted February 14, 2011 Posted February 14, 2011 didnt want shan. didnt want walrus. didnt want brian. didnt want the baugh. did want the chin but we got the chan. and the bud. and the whale. and the wan ill take chudwhalwan over any of those bums
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 14, 2011 Author Posted February 14, 2011 didnt want shan. didnt want walrus. didnt want brian. didnt want the baugh. did want the chin but we got the chan. and the bud. and the whale. and the wan ill take chudwhalwan over any of those bums Would you kindly remove the cellophane wrap from your face? I can't understand a word you're saying.
Malazan Posted February 14, 2011 Posted February 14, 2011 I don't recall all this clamoring for holmgren. Either way, the decision to keep mangini made sense. In hindsight, Mangini wasn't great, but how could that really be known before they actually worked with him and weren't sure of the circumstances surrounding last season.
machinegun12 Posted February 14, 2011 Posted February 14, 2011 The Browns beat the Patriots Nuff' said I'm gonna go ahead and make your post a tad bit better... The Browns EMBARRASSED the Patriots* 'Nuff said That looks much better!! GO BILLS!!!
KRC Posted February 14, 2011 Posted February 14, 2011 As for your comment about Lombardi, he didn't suck as Redskins head coach. He took a team that had a losing record the previous two years and improved them to 7-5-2 in his one season. The following season they reverted back to being a losing team. It took the tenure of Hall of Fame coach George Allen to turn around the fortunes of that franchise. Since Lombardi was only the coach for one season (died in 1970), he obviously can only be judged on that one season. His 1969 roster was essentially the same as the 1968 roster, but with the addition of Sam Huff at linebacker. Huff had retired after the 1967 season, but Lombardi convinced him to return. Lombardi was able to improve the team slightly on both sides of the ball from the previous year, but the change was small enough that it could have been a statistical anomoly. I would hardly say that he sucked (as mentioned by the previous poster), but his tenure was too short to get any gauge on what he would have done with the Redskins. I think that his legacy is safe.
PromoTheRobot Posted February 14, 2011 Posted February 14, 2011 Absolutely noone was "clamoring" for holmgrem...dumb post He wasn't the top choice, like Shanny or Cowher, but there he was on TBD the must-hire list. PTR
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 14, 2011 Author Posted February 14, 2011 He wasn't the top choice, like Shanny or Cowher, but there he was on TBD the must-hire list. PTR Thank you Promo. You're right. He wasn't the top choice, but he was in the top six with Shanny, Cowher, Gruden, Schottzy, and Harbaugh. I know this because I posted against hiring him in numerous threads because Holmgren wanted total control and it was clear that his track record as GM/President in Seattle was poor, even though his coaching record in Green Bay and Seattle was sterling.
Hplarrm Posted February 14, 2011 Posted February 14, 2011 Both HCs are in the process of turning over the roster of the prior regimes and rebuilding their respective rosters. It is patently unfair to draw any conclusions so early in the rebuilding process. After three years you will have a better vantage point to make a fair assessment on how MS is doing. Why jump to any conclusion at such an early stage of his tenure? The big problem facing both the Deadskins and the Bills is that merely categorizing the new HCs as the longer term task of replacing an old failed regime, its that in both case the true reasons for failure are still their and the regimes have hired new HCs but both Dan Snyder and Mr. Ralph are simply failures as owners. Ironically, I think that the Skins are in worse shape with Snider simply being a legend in his own mind who has made bad decision after bad decision. Mr. Ralph also has a track record of having totally toxic relationships with 3 straight GMs and also pretty clearly seemed to mismanage his relationships with both HC Wade-O and also Mularkey. In many ways I find it wrongheaded to blame the teams HCs when it really is the team owner who the buck stops with for their repetitive losing ways. It simply makes zero sense to me that anyone can blame Jauron or even Marv for the majority of the current losing streak. Neither Jauron nor Marv did even an adequate job in their posts but the one common denominator for every year of a decade+ record of futility is Mr. Ralph. To blame TD or whomever else may be true they were failures but really misses the point in terms of asking who is really to blame.
RealityCheck Posted February 14, 2011 Posted February 14, 2011 The big problem facing both the Deadskins and the Bills is that merely categorizing the new HCs as the longer term task of replacing an old failed regime, its that in both case the true reasons for failure are still their and the regimes have hired new HCs but both Dan Snyder and Mr. Ralph are simply failures as owners. Ironically, I think that the Skins are in worse shape with Snider simply being a legend in his own mind who has made bad decision after bad decision. Mr. Ralph also has a track record of having totally toxic relationships with 3 straight GMs and also pretty clearly seemed to mismanage his relationships with both HC Wade-O and also Mularkey. In many ways I find it wrongheaded to blame the teams HCs when it really is the team owner who the buck stops with for their repetitive losing ways. It simply makes zero sense to me that anyone can blame Jauron or even Marv for the majority of the current losing streak. Neither Jauron nor Marv did even an adequate job in their posts but the one common denominator for every year of a decade+ record of futility is Mr. Ralph. To blame TD or whomever else may be true they were failures but really misses the point in terms of asking who is really to blame. This is breaking news. Many people had to suck at their jobs to account for our decade of failure. Thank you, I was unaware.
JohnC Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 In many ways I find it wrongheaded to blame the teams HCs when it really is the team owner who the buck stops with for their repetitive losing ways. It simply makes zero sense to me that anyone can blame Jauron or even Marv for the majority of the current losing streak. Neither Jauron nor Marv did even an adequate job in their posts but the one common denominator for every year of a decade+ record of futility is Mr. Ralph. To blame TD or whomever else may be true they were failures but really misses the point in terms of asking who is really to blame. The buffoon owner hires incompetents and drives out the competent staff members. Do you think you are making a novel discovery that isn't already known to anyone who has a clue.? Tom Modrak has headed the scouting department of one of the worst drafting teams over the past decade. Why is he still the chief scout? Because the fading owner thinks he is doing a fine job. Just because our goofey owner hired Levy and Jauron that doesn't mean that they aren't accountable for their decisions. If you are a bad GM you are a bad GM. If you are a bad HC you are a bad HC. A bad hiring decision doesn't absolve anyone from how they conducted themselves at their jobs.
Dennis in NC Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 Absolutely noone was "clamoring" for holmgrem...dumb post Hah! You're kind of new here, I reckon. TSWers don't let facts like this get in the way of a good discussion. Clamoring for Holmgren, yeah right!
Hplarrm Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 The buffoon owner hires incompetents and drives out the competent staff members. Do you think you are making a novel discovery that isn't already known to anyone who has a clue.? Tom Modrak has headed the scouting department of one of the worst drafting teams over the past decade. Why is he still the chief scout? Because the fading owner thinks he is doing a fine job. Just because our goofey owner hired Levy and Jauron that doesn't mean that they aren't accountable for their decisions. If you are a bad GM you are a bad GM. If you are a bad HC you are a bad HC. A bad hiring decision doesn't absolve anyone from how they conducted themselves at their jobs. Yesm Levy/Jauron, TD, etc are certainly accountable for their miscues and whatever folks are willing to give them credit for. However, what I think misses the mark is when some seem to want to focus on the mistakes of the folks Mr. Ralph hired and actually fail to hold the man in charge accountable/ Recognizing that Mr. Ralph and the toxic relationships he had with GMs Polian (whom he canned and then he won the SB), Butler (so bad a relationship he left the team high and dry when he skipped town), TD (Mr. R turned to him after the Butler debacle) and then Marv who was both incompetent as a GM and really the best (only one who could deal with Ralph after he burned through 3 G employees- that Marv was the only (best by default) candidate for the GM job was demonstrated by the simple fact that after Marv retired the new GM was_____ for a year. It simply makes zero sense for anyone to blame incompetent Marv for the decade plus record of failure even if one wants to whine that he destroyed the Bills for years to come. He simply cannot be blamed for 8+ years of GM failure before he took the job. I do not think this is news actually (though you sure couldn't tell this may be a novel thought to the folks who seem to want to post sharp attacks on the idiots hired by Mr. Ralph.
reddogblitz Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 Last January, I posted numerous times about how as Holmgren gained more power in Seattle that his ability to manage personnel came under increasing scrutiny. If you ask people in Seattle, they would tell you he was a great coach and a poor (de facto) General Manager. I live in seattle and am also a seahawks fan. I played on the Seahawks drumline in 2005 and got to go to the SB with the team. A hell of a ride. I agree with San Jose Bills Fan. The team didn't get good until the Walrus was stripped of GM duties and was only the HC. Why the clowns thought he would be a good GM I'll never know. It is of course too early to tell, but so far the results are not good. Gotta give him a couple of more years though. I clamored for the Bills to hire him as HC.
8-8 Forever? Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 In an epic 10 page thread on The Stadium Wall, there was a strong consensus that Mike Shanahan's first year with the Redskins was a resounding flop. This view was met with very little disagreement. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/124673-official-shanahan-thread/page__p__2058925__fromsearch__1#entry2058925 It's time to take a look at the other "whale"…actually a Walrus, that Bills fans here and elsewhere were desperately clamoring for last offseason, Mike Holmgren. As you all know, Holmgren was hired by the Browns as President at a rumored salary of between $8-10 million per year. So how's he done so far? His first big decision was whether to retain Eric Mangini as his Head Coach following a 5-11 2009 season. After some deliberation and meetings, Holmgren elected to keep Mangini. Mangini steered the Browns to another 5-11 season in 2010. Even worse, he weakened the team by working counter to Holmgren and General Manager Tom Heckert. According to a story in Cleveland Plain-Dealer, Tony Grossi touches on some issues between Mangini and his superiors. Mangini was the prime mover in the trade of talented tailback Jerome Harrison to the Philadelphia Eagles. In the last 3 weeks of the 2009 season, Harrison had over 600 yards with 5 TDs and was viewed as a possible breakout talent. Mangini decided that Peyton Hillis was his workhorse and when Harrison pouted, Mangini pushed to have Harrison traded. While Hillis had a nice season, he became less and less effective as the season wore on and the Brown's one-dimensional attack over-relied upon him. In fact the Browns only kept two running backs active on Sundays. They could have used the explosive Harrison to lend much needed big-play ability to the offense. Instead the player was maligned, alienated, and ultimately traded. In the same story, GM Heckert (who along with Holmgren share much of the blame for enabling Mangini's behavior) called the trade acquisition and subsequent non-use of linebacker Jayme Mitchell "bizarre." "He was by far our best pass rusher and never got on the field, so I can't answer that one. Eric (Mangini) watched him (on tape prior to the trade) and liked him. So I don't know what happened after that. He's a nickel pass rusher on third down. We thought he could really rush the passer." Unfortunately for the Browns, Mitchell's contract is up and he can now be a free agent. Holmgren also made the head scratching free agent signing of Jake Delhomme. He paid the quarterback about $7 million in 2010 and if he brings back Delhomme, will be on the hook for $5.4 million next year…all for a player that most league observers considered to be washed up. So in his first year as President, Holmgren brought back a Head Coach who ultimately failed again, and in the process allowed that coach to have too much say over personnel. He also got very mixed reviews for his player personnel decisions. All for the low, low price of $8-10 million. Too early to tell with Shanahan. One year does not a resume make. But taking a free lancer like McNabb (who I happen to think is great) when you are a control freak like Shanny is strange, though.
Hplarrm Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 Too early to tell with Shanahan. One year does not a resume make. But taking a free lancer like McNabb (who I happen to think is great) when you are a control freak like Shanny is strange, though. Thanks to Dan Snyder's crack (or is it on crack) publicizing effort because he sued a media outlet for libel, I looked up on the internet the Washington City Paper article on Dan Snyder > http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2011/02/02/snyder-sues/ < I have given Mr. Ralph a lot of grief I am sure he pays no attention to on TSW for being an idiot. Thus article in amazing detail lays out the really bizarre price gouging of fans the Dead Skins have done while totally mismanaging the football operation. I hereby apologize to Mr. Ralph as I had concluded after his mismanagement of relationships with three straight employees as GMs (Polian, Butler, and TD), also had horrendous endings with two of his HCs (he tried to crawl out of honoring his contract with Wade but lost in arbitration and then essentially forced Mularkey out leading him to walk away from millions of dollars). He also exercised his owners right to meddle making bad football judgments only he could make that set us on a losing path of seeking the next Jim Kelly. However, Mr. Rs idiocy pales next to the recurring idiocy of Snyder. The linked article is worth a read to see how bad it can get with a bad owner.
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