NoSaint Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 I agree 100%. Smokescreening allllll day baby (I hope) I'll refer you to my previous post - what's to gain from it? Middle of round one and on has more mobility, and sliding players, picks are closer in value and player ratings vary between teams etc - top 5 tends to have only a small number of trade possibilities to begin with and with CBA restrictions, even fewer. Other then hiding interest in cam I can't figure out one scenario where a smokescreen makes any sense. On this board the word smokescreen seems to be code for I don't like/understand the idea being discussed.
sllib olaffub Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Last year - Nix's first as GM, we didn't come out and say we loved Spiller; rather, Gailey said he wanted to add a waterbug type player, and Nix said they wanted to add dynamic playmakers. Spiller was the guy - as some suspected - but, most didn't suspect Spiller on account of Lynch and Jackson. Where we are picking this year, and given our QB situation (lack thereof in the last decade) that we need to land a true franchise QB as much as we need to have a dominant O-line and Defense, I'd say if the Bills like Newton and really were considering taking him at 3, it could only serve to hurt us by coming out and talking really highly of Newton to reporters. If other teams that like Newton as much as us, and need a QB badly, wanted to get him and thought he'd be gone by 3, then they might possibly trade up to land him. I draw two conclusions from the talk - either Nix isn't very good as draft strategy, or, he wants to increase his trade value and he wants to try to bump someone he really likes down to him at 3 (the only guy I can imagine he might want that badly is Fairley). We'll see - but, either eay, I couldn't be happier with where we sit. I think it looks like we'll have our pick of a handful of players who could be perennial pro-bowlers. I just love the depth on the D-line in this year's draft, and the QB depth, too. We play our picks right - and we can do this - we could walk out of this draft with our front seven solidified, a QB of the future, and a TE. I'd be happy if we merely established strength on one side of the ball or the other - after this season it'd be nice to know what our identity is, and that we have a dominant offense or defense - something we can win games with.
thewildrabbit Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) The old fox... The same old fox who brought in Cornell Green at RT and paid him 3mill, guys off the street played better. The same old fox who could have traded Marshawn Lynch at last years draft to numerous teams for a 3rd the Bills could have used that pick in last year for their ( before the season, "not that far away") (after 5 games, "this is going to take some time") "rebuilding", the same old fox who missed the calls from the Saints who would have given up a 3rd days before he was traded to Seattle for a 4th. Ironically that Run by Lynch won the game for Seattle against the Saints in the playoffs, wonder if the Saints FO thinks Nix is an old fox? http://gridironfans....hawn-lynch.html The same old fox who went into last years draft stating that the O line was a "priority", then took OL at 5th and 7th. The 7th was cut in preseason and the 5th never made it to the starting lineup even though the team was desperate for stability at RT. The same old fox who let his HC coach up Trent Edwards all off season-preseason and gave fitz back up reps... to cut the guy after 2 games and get nothing for him. At his first presser the man himself stated he wasn't the smartest guy in the room, I for one believe him. I think you got the old and the F right, the rest is debatable. Edited February 12, 2011 by Harvey lives
Bill from NYC Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 You're entitled to your incorrect opinion. There has never been a trade up to pick a DB in the Top 5 in NFL history, There have been very few DBs taken in the top5 in NFL history for a reason. You are of course correct. It's amazing how many Bills fans are conditioned to expect, or even condone wasting resources in this way.
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 The old fox... The same old fox who brought in Cornell Green at RT and paid him 3mill, guys off the street played better. The same old fox who could have traded Marshawn Lynch at last years draft to numerous teams for a 3rd the Bills could have used that pick in last year for their ( before the season, "not that far away") (after 5 games, "this is going to take some time") "rebuilding", the same old fox who missed the calls from the Saints who would have given up a 3rd days before he was traded to Seattle for a 4th. Ironically that Run by Lynch won the game for Seattle against the Saints in the playoffs, wonder if the Saints FO thinks Nix is an old fox? http://gridironfans....hawn-lynch.html The same old fox who went into last years draft stating that the O line was a "priority", then took OL at 5th and 7th. The 7th was cut in preseason and the 5th never made it to the starting lineup even though the team was desperate for stability at RT. The same old fox who let his HC coach up Trent Edwards all off season-preseason and gave fitz back up reps... to cut the guy after 2 games and get nothing for him. At his first presser the man himself stated he wasn't the smartest guy in the room, I for one believe him. I think you got the old and the F right, the rest is debatable. These things are so true it's comical, yet sad.
Kingfish Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 they openly talked about how much they liked Spiller last year and how they wanted a "waterbug" RB. Apparently nobody believed them until they raced to the podium and picked him. I think people believed them, eventually at least. From about 2-3 weeks before the draft when Charles Davis put out what was probably the first mock draft that had the Bills picking Spiller it seemed like the prevailing thought from then on was that the Bills would pick Spiller.
spartacus Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 The old fox... The same old fox who brought in Cornell Green at RT and paid him 3mill, guys off the street played better. The same old fox who could have traded Marshawn Lynch at last years draft to numerous teams for a 3rd the Bills could have used that pick in last year for their ( before the season, "not that far away") (after 5 games, "this is going to take some time") "rebuilding", the same old fox who missed the calls from the Saints who would have given up a 3rd days before he was traded to Seattle for a 4th. Ironically that Run by Lynch won the game for Seattle against the Saints in the playoffs, wonder if the Saints FO thinks Nix is an old fox? http://gridironfans....hawn-lynch.html The same old fox who went into last years draft stating that the O line was a "priority", then took OL at 5th and 7th. The 7th was cut in preseason and the 5th never made it to the starting lineup even though the team was desperate for stability at RT. The same old fox who let his HC coach up Trent Edwards all off season-preseason and gave fitz back up reps... to cut the guy after 2 games and get nothing for him. At his first presser the man himself stated he wasn't the smartest guy in the room, I for one believe him. I think you got the old and the F right, the rest is debatable. You left out his first classic move Brought in before the 2009 draft for his expertise, he and the Magnificent Modrak were both somehow overruled on the Maybin pick. (yeah right) Looks to me like Buddy is suffering the same memory lapses and judgment problems that any 70 year retired person experiences on a daily basis. '
Ozymandius Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 they openly talked about how much they liked Spiller last year and how they wanted a "waterbug" RB. Apparently nobody believed them until they raced to the podium and picked him. Maybe that was all part of their elaborate ruse so that team would really believe they were interested in Newton and be forced to pay a King's ransom for our pick. Or, just maybe, they like Newton and are strongly considering drafting him. Exactly right. There was no attempt at deception last season. Why expect it now? Old fart is more like it. And old people tend to be old school and don't lie and stuff.
BillsPhan Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 I love all the talk about Buddy being interested in Cam Newton... It appears other teams are watering at the mouth to also get him... If they think he will be gone at #3, maybe Nix can get a good trade for the pick... Let me ask you a few questions: 1) Are you old enough to have enjoyed watching Jim Kelly's career as the Bills HOF quarterback from 1986 - 1996? 2) If you are, did you enjoy the excitement of Kelly leading the Bills to 4 consecutive SB appearances, despite not winning any of them a feat that I cannot imagine ever being repeated by one single team again?? 3) Do you know the winning quarterbacks for the past 10 SB teams?: Let me renind you: Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Tom Brady, Brad Johnson and Tom Brady. 6 of those 7 different winning SB QB's are franchise QB's and everyone of them are still top 5 QB's in the NFL today. Brad Johnson is the only one of those 10 that we might compare favorably to Ryan Fitzpatrick, but even he had a better career then Fitzy to this point in Fitzy's career. I don't know, I certainly can see the light, but it seems you and hundreds of others on this forum and the Bills organization refuse to accept it. Ever since 1997, the Bills have either refused to or have been unable to draft or trade for their next franchise QB after Jimbo. We are now going on our 15th season without one. Do you think it's just a coincidence that over those 14 seasons without a franchise QB, the Bills have a record of 0-2 in the playoffs?? Yet in the previous 11 seasons Kelly was their franchise QB, their playoff record was 11-8-0 including their unfortunate 0-4-0 in SB's?? 19 playoff games in just 11 seasons with a franchise QB and 2 playoff games in 14 seasons without one. Gee, can I get a big DUH? But despite these FACTS, there still are only a few of us out here that think Nix would be a "fox" to just draft Newton or Ponder or Gabbert or whoever is at the top of his QB board with the number 3 pick in this years draft!! "Oh no, that would be a waste of a draft pick with all of our needs on defense", right???" "Oh, Nix should trade down for extra picks", right? So Von Miller is the "smart" pick, or, trading down later in the first round and taking someone out of the top 5 range along without getting our QB is the "smart choice"?? No, the smart choice to choose the QB first, and work on the rest of the team second. That formula has been proven 100% CORRECT in about 90% of the franchises that have gone on to win Super Bowls. I like taking the 90% correct route myself, but that is just my own humble opinion.
JohnC Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Let me ask you a few questions: 1) Are you old enough to have enjoyed watching Jim Kelly's career as the Bills HOF quarterback from 1986 - 1996? 2) If you are, did you enjoy the excitement of Kelly leading the Bills to 4 consecutive SB appearances, despite not winning any of them a feat that I cannot imagine ever being repeated by one single team again?? 3) Do you know the winning quarterbacks for the past 10 SB teams?: Let me renind you: Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Tom Brady, Brad Johnson and Tom Brady. 6 of those 7 different winning SB QB's are franchise QB's and everyone of them are still top 5 QB's in the NFL today. Brad Johnson is the only one of those 10 that we might compare favorably to Ryan Fitzpatrick, but even he had a better career then Fitzy to this point in Fitzy's career. I don't know, I certainly can see the light, but it seems you and hundreds of others on this forum and the Bills organization refuse to accept it. Ever since 1997, the Bills have either refused to or have been unable to draft or trade for their next franchise QB after Jimbo. We are now going on our 15th season without one. Do you think it's just a coincidence that over those 14 seasons without a franchise QB, the Bills have a record of 0-2 in the playoffs?? Yet in the previous 11 seasons Kelly was their franchise QB, their playoff record was 11-8-0 including their unfortunate 0-4-0 in SB's?? 19 playoff games in just 11 seasons with a franchise QB and 2 playoff games in 14 seasons without one. Gee, can I get a big DUH? But despite these FACTS, there still are only a few of us out here that think Nix would be a "fox" to just draft Newton or Ponder or Gabbert or whoever is at the top of his QB board with the number 3 pick in this years draft!! "Oh no, that would be a waste of a draft pick with all of our needs on defense", right???" "Oh, Nix should trade down for extra picks", right? So Von Miller is the "smart" pick, or, trading down later in the first round and taking someone out of the top 5 range along without getting our QB is the "smart choice"?? No, the smart choice to choose the QB first, and work on the rest of the team second. That formula has been proven 100% CORRECT in about 90% of the franchises that have gone on to win Super Bowls. I like taking the 90% correct route myself, but that is just my own humble opinion. Your main point is on the mark. When you have an opportunity to draft a talented franchise qb prospect then you are foolish not to take advantage of that situation. If Newton is on the board when our turn comes up and we don't seize it, then again, this very unimaginative franchise will let an opportunity slip away. If the front office believes that Gabbert is a better prospect then pick him. The Bills are in a positon to get a cornerstone position set. Not doing so will reflect the standard mediocre and cautious mentality that this antiquated organization is noted for. If you review the four last participants in the SB their respective qbs were Brees, Manning, Roethlisberger and Rodgers. All those qbs are top tier qbs. Three with them were first round picks with Brees being the first pick in the second round. Those people who are advocating that Fitz is developing into a good qb are deluding themselves. He is a below-average starting qb in a league dominated by top-shelf qbs. You go nowhere with that caliber of player as your starting qb. What I don't want to hear from the clones on this board is that we have to avoid taking any particular player because he is not a sure thing. What an absurd thing to say. Since no draftee is a sure thing. So please stop parroting out that nonsensical drivel. Over the past few years there is ample evidence that talented young qb such as Ryan with the Falcons, Bradford with the Rams and Freeman with the Bucs can have a rathor quick uplifting affect to to a struggling team. If a franchise has an opportunity to get that critical position filled with an impact player then you don't act on it.
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Your main point is on the mark. When you have an opportunity to draft a talented franchise qb prospect then you are foolish not to take advantage of that situation. If Newton is on the board when our turn comes up and we don't seize it, then again, this very unimaginative franchise will let an opportunity slip away. If the front office believes that Gabbert is a better prospect then pick him. The Bills are in a positon to get a cornerstone position set. Not doing so will reflect the standard mediocre and cautious mentality that this antiquated organization is noted for. If you review the four last participants in the SB their respective qbs were Brees, Manning, Roethlisberger and Rodgers. All those qbs are top tier qbs. Three with them were first round picks with Brees being the first pick in the second round. Those people who are advocating that Fitz is developing into a good qb are deluding themselves. He is a below-average starting qb in a league dominated by top-shelf qbs. You go nowhere with that caliber of player as your starting qb. What I don't want to hear from the clones on this board is that we have to avoid taking any particular player because he is not a sure thing. What an absurd thing to say. Since no draftee is a sure thing. So please stop parroting out that nonsensical drivel. Over the past few years there is ample evidence that talented young qb such as Ryan with the Falcons, Bradford with the Rams and Freeman with the Bucs can have a rathor quick uplifting affect to to a struggling team. If a franchise has an opportunity to get that critical position filled with an impact player then you don't act on it. That being said about the QB position is true, however didanyone see the size of the DL and LBs in this years S Bowl???
BillsVet Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 The old fox... The same old fox who brought in Cornell Green at RT and paid him 3mill, guys off the street played better. The same old fox who could have traded Marshawn Lynch at last years draft to numerous teams for a 3rd the Bills could have used that pick in last year for their ( before the season, "not that far away") (after 5 games, "this is going to take some time") "rebuilding", the same old fox who missed the calls from the Saints who would have given up a 3rd days before he was traded to Seattle for a 4th. Ironically that Run by Lynch won the game for Seattle against the Saints in the playoffs, wonder if the Saints FO thinks Nix is an old fox? http://gridironfans....hawn-lynch.html The same old fox who went into last years draft stating that the O line was a "priority", then took OL at 5th and 7th. The 7th was cut in preseason and the 5th never made it to the starting lineup even though the team was desperate for stability at RT. The same old fox who let his HC coach up Trent Edwards all off season-preseason and gave fitz back up reps... to cut the guy after 2 games and get nothing for him. At his first presser the man himself stated he wasn't the smartest guy in the room, I for one believe him. I think you got the old and the F right, the rest is debatable. How many fans will think Buddy's an old fox if the defense becomes more 4-3 than 3-4 this season? He and his head coach have made conflicting comments about their scheme, and have signed players and coaches who are either 4-3 or 3-4 types. This is the same guy who re-signs Chris Kelsay to a decent contract extension, despite the fact he can't play LOLB in a 3-4 and his pass rushing ability as a 4-3 LDE are marginal at best. The same Buddy Nix who makes fun of the equally dysfunctional Raiders at his HC's introductory press conference and rambles on about getting 35 calls a day for the HC job. This is not a man who is savvy or capable of subterfuge during the off-season. He's a former national scout not qualified to be the top football man for a NFL franchise but gets the position because he's the only quasi-personnel man RW still knows. Buddy said on 12/31/09 that the Bills weren't that far away. I laughed then and I'm still incredulous that he's saying anything but that he's got a lot of work to do. Eventually the team has to play games, and after year 1, Buddy's work hasn't translated into much but suspect draft picks and UFA's who aren't much either. Buddy flunked year 1 as Bills GM.
JohnC Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) That being said about the QB position is true, however didanyone see the size of the DL and LBs in this years S Bowl??? Your make a good point. You have to have a complete team to be successful. But when you have an opportunity to address the most impactful position on the field, then you do so. Getting a legitimate qb in place doesn't translate into success if the other critical parts of the team are not also addressed. What good is it having a superb qb, rb or receiver if your OL is in shambles? The point I am making is that the Bills are in a good positon to finally address the qb position. Why waste that opportunity.? If you are going to be subjected to a dismal season, then, if you can, make it work for you. Turn a bad situation into a good opportunity. Last year, there was only one highly ranked qb in the draft. The Rams, with the first pick, took advantage of their high draft status. Do you think they have regrets about taking Bradford? This year we might be in position to take one of the limited number of highly rated qb prospects. There comes a time when you have to take the plunge and get that position solidified. Then you systematically address the other many needs on the team. Edited February 12, 2011 by JohnC
Tcali Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Let me ask you a few questions: 1) Are you old enough to have enjoyed watching Jim Kelly's career as the Bills HOF quarterback from 1986 - 1996? 2) If you are, did you enjoy the excitement of Kelly leading the Bills to 4 consecutive SB appearances, despite not winning any of them a feat that I cannot imagine ever being repeated by one single team again?? 3) Do you know the winning quarterbacks for the past 10 SB teams?: Let me renind you: Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Tom Brady, Brad Johnson and Tom Brady. 6 of those 7 different winning SB QB's are franchise QB's and everyone of them are still top 5 QB's in the NFL today. Brad Johnson is the only one of those 10 that we might compare favorably to Ryan Fitzpatrick, but even he had a better career then Fitzy to this point in Fitzy's career. I don't know, I certainly can see the light, but it seems you and hundreds of others on this forum and the Bills organization refuse to accept it. Ever since 1997, the Bills have either refused to or have been unable to draft or trade for their next franchise QB after Jimbo. We are now going on our 15th season without one. Do you think it's just a coincidence that over those 14 seasons without a franchise QB, the Bills have a record of 0-2 in the playoffs?? Yet in the previous 11 seasons Kelly was their franchise QB, their playoff record was 11-8-0 including their unfortunate 0-4-0 in SB's?? 19 playoff games in just 11 seasons with a franchise QB and 2 playoff games in 14 seasons without one. Gee, can I get a big DUH? But despite these FACTS, there still are only a few of us out here that think Nix would be a "fox" to just draft Newton or Ponder or Gabbert or whoever is at the top of his QB board with the number 3 pick in this years draft!! "Oh no, that would be a waste of a draft pick with all of our needs on defense", right???" "Oh, Nix should trade down for extra picks", right? So Von Miller is the "smart" pick, or, trading down later in the first round and taking someone out of the top 5 range along without getting our QB is the "smart choice"?? No, the smart choice to choose the QB first, and work on the rest of the team second. That formula has been proven 100% CORRECT in about 90% of the franchises that have gone on to win Super Bowls. I like taking the 90% correct route myself, but that is just my own humble opinion. Good points re: franchise QBs.-However,many people don't think Newton is that kinda QB.I was more impressed with Vick as a collegian-and they were similar QBs.-And I don't think ELI is a franchise QB.Yes he had a great run in the playoffs that one year.But remember that Giant fans wanted to run him out of town for his first few years.And I think if you polled Giant fans on whether they think he is a 'franchise' QB you may be surprised by the results .
PDaDdy Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 I love all the talk about Buddy being interested in Cam Newton... It appears other teams are watering at the mouth to also get him... If they think he will be gone at #3, maybe Nix can get a good trade for the pick. Bills need additional draft picks. What a better way then to say, he may pick him. He is planting seeds if you ask me... When it comes down to the first two picks for the Bills, if no trade is possible, I believe Von Miller and Ponder are the players who will be chosen...... It is strickly a guessing game right now and everyone is right untill the draft...Go Bills Sorry to burst the bubble. I think Buddy is more a straight shooter than a bluffer. If he is talking up Cam Newton and I hear Gailey say a single thing about wanting a dynamic player/mobile QB of the future type talk....Cam will be our pick. I wouldn't "hate" the pick but I don't think QB is our biggest need.
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Sorry to burst the bubble. I think Buddy is more a straight shooter than a bluffer. If he is talking up Cam Newton and I hear Gailey say a single thing about wanting a dynamic player/mobile QB of the future type talk....Cam will be our pick. I wouldn't "hate" the pick but I don't think QB is our biggest need. Gailey already made said comment at the Senior Bowl. Well, the comment wasn't that he wanted said player but, just that the spread option running QB was coming and the choice (implication) was to be ready for it (smart) or not (dumb).
spartacus Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 Gailey already made said comment at the Senior Bowl. Well, the comment wasn't that he wanted said player but, just that the spread option running QB was coming and the choice (implication) was to be ready for it (smart) or not (dumb). in addition to any comments made this year, you need to include the Bills aborted attempt last year to move up and get Tebow to run the spread. Chan has run it before and Buddy's comments about the future of QBing reinforce that belief. Cam is bigger, stronger and a better athlete than Tebow. the only uncertainty is how long will it take to get the card to the podium
1B4IDie Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 in addition to any comments made this year, you need to include the Bills aborted attempt last year to move up and get Tebow to run the spread. Chan has run it before and Buddy's comments about the future of QBing reinforce that belief. Cam is bigger, stronger and a better athlete than Tebow. the only uncertainty is how long will it take to get the card to the podium What? Do you have any links that support this theory?
spartacus Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 What? Do you have any links that support this theory? What link? - the Bills never discuss the draft (except for when the Magnificent Modrak tells us after the season who he wanted on draft day) The Bills try to trade back in to the 1st round. Denver does manage to trade up and select Tebow. Ralph breaks with a 50 year history of not commenting on the draft and almost has a coronary as he blasts the Denver move. all Bills fans believe the resulting denial from OBD of any interest in Tebow
1B4IDie Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 What link? - the Bills never discuss the draft (except for when the Magnificent Modrak tells us after the season who he wanted on draft day) The Bills try to trade back in to the 1st round. Denver does manage to trade up and select Tebow. Ralph breaks with a 50 year history of not commenting on the draft and almost has a coronary as he blasts the Denver move. all Bills fans believe the resulting denial from OBD of any interest in Tebow Yeah I guess having made failed trade attempts for Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Matt Ryan. The Tim Tebow failed trade up didn't seem so bad.
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