Carucci: Bills GM Nix likes Cam Newton "a great deal"

[JohnC]

Why Cam Newton? You can go and get Jamarcus Russell for free. Same thing.

 

Utter nonsense not worthy of a response.

 

His performance in college doesn't mean jacksht so stop bringin up his college numbers. If you're going by college numbers then Ryan Leaf and his 3968 yds, 34 TDs and 11 INT with a 158.7 rating would've translated to the NFL well. College numbers and awards don't mean sht.

 

You can say that about any qb or player in the draft playing any position. So what is your point? Don't assess their play in college? That is a very odd approach to take.

[DDD]

As I am unimpressed with any position player at #3 in the draft, I am not at all averse to the Bills taking

a QB.

Think about it; what is newton's upside?

 

Sure, he could be Jamarcus Russell, but he could - from what I've seen - be a much better Donavan McNabb, and I've seen people on this board wanting to spend first round picks on McNabb for the last ten years or so. Newton could be a McNabb, a Vick, a better Randall Cunningham, a Steve Young without the brains but better size, a guy that Belichick and fatso in NY just might have problems defending.

 

Sure, it would take him a few years, but in the meantime all the Fitz-lovers would be happy anyway.

 

People would still btch that we didn't pick some DT or LB instead. Why? Newton could be THE ANSWER

and to me that's worth a shot.

 

Not to play the race card but there are those who would interpret your comments as racist. Ever hear Steve Young speak on ESPN. All I can say was Steve Young was one hell of an athlete but I'd hardly refer to him as having "brains."

[Dorkington]

Steve Young is hardly a brains player. He had great instinct though, which is just as good in some cases.

[DDD]

Steve Young is hardly a brains player. He had great instinct though, which is just as good in some cases.

 

Agreed.

[JohnC]

Perhaps I did not state my point properly. What I meant is that if there is a choice between a 'project QB' or a can't miss pick, I vote for the can't miss pick. Again, I realize that there really isn't a 'can't miss' when it comes to a draft but every year there is a consensus about some players who are far more NFL ready and unlikely to fail. Sam Bradford comes to mind. In this case, I would rather the Bills make a safe pick than one who is risky. I am not talking about money at all.

 

You answered your own question: There is no can't miss pick. Even Bradford had his detractors prior to the draft. With respect to Newton, and a little more vague with Gabbert, there is a consensus forming. The consensus is that CN is an extraordinary talent. If that is the case then why shy away from that caliber of talent to fill a qb need? The Bills are in an excellent position to draft a highly rated qb with their third pick because they already have an adequate qb in Fitz to serve as a bridge qb. If you think that Fitz is a longterm answer then you and I have major differences in judgment.

 

Anyone who has an iota of realism about the Bills recognizes that they are years away from being a serious team. As it stands they are closer to being an expansion caliber team than a playoff caliber team? This is a very flawed team created by a very flawed organization. Does anyone realistically expect us to jump ahead of the Jets or the Pats over the next couple of years? The only way this franchise can eventually overtake these teams and earn a playoff spot is to get a talented qb prospect on the roster and develop him. The Bills are in position to get that caliber of talent with the third pick in this year's draft. It would be a big mistake to not seize the opportunity. The Rams took the plunge with Bradford and it worked out well. The Falcons took the plunge with Ryan and it worked out well. The Bucs took the plunge with Freeman and it worked out well. Why can't the Bills do the same?

Edited February 14, 2011 by JohnC

[Dorkington]

Ability to read defenses is a question all this year's QB have to answer because most of them did not play in a pro style offense where they were required to read defenses. That's not a criticism that applies only to Newton. Also, remember during this time of year that scouts and NFL personnel men will throw out misinformation for different purposes. 1.) To influence opinion on a player they actually want. So they float rumor or lies to attempt to weaken his stock enough to grab him. 2.) To see how the player reacts to the criticism. Does he self-destruct? Does he set out to prove the opinions wrong? Does it affect him at all? Because you hear something about a player does not mean the scouts or personnel men actually believe that about the player.

 

Newton led his JUCO to a national title before he got to Auburn. You might not want to count that, but the scouts will. Why? Because winning is winning. Newton is used to winning. He's used to leading his team successfully. He did it in JUCO then guess what? He did it again at Auburn. Like Buddy Nix said last year, players who have been successful over a period of time usually continue to be successful. Arthur Moats and Danny Batten where small college players who were successful. Neither played in a BCS conference and Nix drafted them so it must not be a pre-requisite that that success comes only in big conferences. Newton happens to have been successful at multiple levels. That's not a one year wonder.

 

Newton screwed up and had to leave Florida. He had to go to college football's minor league. He didn't wash out. He led his team to a national title and he stood out in doing so. His play earned him another chance in the SEC.

 

He outperformed his competition in spring ball and won the starting job. He led his team to comeback wins at home and on the road. In the middle of an adversity filled period when allegations were being made against him and his family on television, newspapers, magazines and blogs, he seemed to play better each week. That's indicative of a strong mind, an ability to focus on his work, an ability to rise to the occasion in spite of external pressure. A lot of people were waiting for him to fail. Many others were hoping he failed. He did not. The bigger the game the better he played: big game player. Got injured in the Championship game. He didn't play his best game by far, but he TOUGHED it out and still led his team to the victory. His teammates obviously followed his lead. They rallied around him and it was easy to see week in and week out. That does not happen if they don't respect him. And remember this is a guy who is in his first year in the program. He had to earn that respect. His strong work ethic has been written about.

 

Call the media day session whatever you will, but it also showed the young man has been working diligently on his skills and has stayed in shape. He did not have to go get a QB coach to help him strengthen his game, but he did. He did not have to take on Warren Moon as an advisor and welcome his feedback, but he did. He's nothing if not serious about football. He's also very polished in front of the camera. He's a guy who has charisma. He has "it." Faces of franchises have this quality.

 

There are questions about any rookie prospect and Newton is no different. But there's a lot to like about Newton outside of 6'6" 250, strong arm, can make all the throws and has good mobility.

 

As I've said elsewhere. I'm agnostic on if we take him or not for a QB, because I prefer we draft defense and concentrate on QB another time.

 

That being said... this is a great, logical and well thought out post.

 

Cheers.

[Kelly the Dog]

Steve Young is hardly a brains player. He had great instinct though, which is just as good in some cases.

Steve Young was known for being an incredibly smart guy, on and off the field. This doesn't mean much but it rated him the 8th smartest player ever to play in the NFL (Fitz was 14).http://bleacherreport.com/articles/533920-ryan-fitzpatrick-and-the-25-smartest-players-in-nfl-history#page/19

He won an NCAA Top VIII award for student athletes (that is half sports, half academics/leadership). He got a law degree (and I've read he got a med degree, too, but havent seen it elsewhere). Successful venture capitalist. He was asked to speak at the Republican National Convention. It's easy not to like some of his views, and he's quite outspoken, not to mention several concussions which probably affect him to this day. But he's known as highly smart player and guy.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog

[DDD]

You answered your own question: There is no can't miss pick. Even Bradford had his detractors prior to the draft. With respect to Newton, and a little more vague with Gabbert, there is a consensus forming. The consensus is that CN is an extraordinary talent. If that is the case then why shy away from that caliber of talent to fill a qb need? The Bills are in an excellent position to draft a highly rated qb with their third pick because they already have an adequate qb in Fitz to serve as a bridge qb. If you think that Fitz is a longterm answer then you and I have major differences in judgment.

 

Anyone who has an iota of realism about the Bills recognizes that they are years away from being a serious team. As it stands they are closer to being an expansion caliber team than a playoff caliber team? This is a very flawed team created by a very flawed organization. Does anyone realistically expect us to jump ahead of the Jets or the Pats over the next couple of years? The only way this franchise can eventually overtake these teams and earn a playoff spot is to get a talented qb prospect on the roster and develop him. The Bills are in position to get that caliber of talent with the third pick in this year's draft. It would be a big mistake to not seize the opportunity. The Rams took the plunge with Bradford and it worked out well. The Falcons took the plunge with Ryan and it worked out well. The Bucs took the plunge with Freeman and it worked out well. Why can't the Bills do the same?

 

They will. Just next year when the Bills will draft Andrew Luck with the #1 overall pick in 2012.

[bananathumb]

Not to play the race card but there are those who would interpret your comments as racist. Ever hear Steve Young speak on ESPN. All I can say was Steve Young was one hell of an athlete but I'd hardly refer to him as having "brains."

 

 

Yeah, right, Young is not a smart guy. Someone has already listed his achievements here, but if you have just watched football, you know he's intelligent. He was also very athletic, but nowhere near Newton's size.

Nothing racist, just trying to estimate what we could have in Cam Newton at 3. I would be happy if he was anything close to Young or any of the other QBs I mentioned. he is certainly worth a shot in the first round unless something very negative crops up as the Bills study him.

[Orton's Arm]

That's is almost entirely untrue. Toughness is physical. Accuracy is not a mental gift, it's physical. Guys on your list like Danny Weurfell, Detmer, Leinart, etc, along with easily a dozen QBs every year coming out of college have the abilities and mental gifts necessary to become franchise quarterbacks in the NFL. Usually the one thing holding them back is their physical gifts, either they are too short, too slender, lack the arm strength, mechanics, footwork, too slow, etc. NFL's need both the physical gifts and the mental capacity to succeed, and not many become franchise players without both, but most of the great college quarterbacks (that aren't gadget players or runners) lack the size and arm and mechanics to play in the NFL. Kellen Moore is a good example this year. Colt McCoy last year would have been the top overall pick if he had Bradford's size and arm.

 

Teams draft players because of their physical gifts who lack the mental abilities all the time because they HOPE they develop from the neck up because they know you can't succeed without the physical gifts. You rarely see guys drafted high who are great throwers and brilliant football minds without sufficient size and arm. The reason you always see guys with big arms and great size fail is because teams gamble they will pick up the mental game. They don't even try to draft guys high who lack the physical game.*

 

*Leinart, for example, was an exception, but only because some scouts and GMs, like the Cardinals, THOUGHT his physical limitations wouldn't prevent him from succeeding. Many others, including myself, saw him and said the guy has everything BUT he has no arm strength and is too slow to play in the NFL. He'll get killed and he won't be able to get the ball downfield even if he is accurate and can read defenses and is a winner. And that's exactly what happened.

Your definition of "physical" is considerably broader than mine. Let's say you have two guys in a weight room; and it quickly becomes clear both guys are equally strong. After they're done lifting weights, the guys head over to the basketball court to start shooting free throws. One guy makes a lot more of his throws than the other. I'd call that a mental difference between the two guys. Maybe you explain that by eye-hand coordination, or more practice time (learning) how to shoot, or a better (learned) throwing technique. Regardless, accuracy (whether in football or basketball) is the result of what your brain chooses to do with the strength/physical gifts you have; and is not explainable merely by a player's muscle mass, skeletal structure, or other physical traits.

 

It's true that every player needs a certain minimal level of physical traits to succeed in the NFL. Players who fall below that level are almost never drafted early. Nor should they be: physical traits are easily measured; and there's generally little sense in using an early pick on a guy who lacks the physical tools necessary to do his job.

 

But once you have the bare minimum physical tools necessary to succeed as an NFL QB (such as the arm strength to make all the throws, for example), then your mental traits become considerably more important. Can you read defenses? Can you process information quickly? Can you throw the ball accurately? Do you have the will to succeed? Once a QB's physical gifts are above a certain minimal level, questions like those decide whether he's going to be a successful NFL QB.

[Kelly the Dog]

Your definition of "physical" is considerably broader than mine. Let's say you have two guys in a weight room; and it quickly becomes clear both guys are equally strong. After they're done lifting weights, the guys head over to the basketball court to start shooting free throws. One guy makes a lot more of his throws than the other. I'd call that a mental difference between the two guys. Maybe you explain that by eye-hand coordination, or more practice time (learning) how to shoot, or a better (learned) throwing technique. Regardless, accuracy (whether in football or basketball) is the result of what your brain chooses to do with the strength/physical gifts you have; and is not explainable merely by a player's muscle mass, skeletal structure, or other physical traits.

 

It's true that every player needs a certain minimal level of physical traits to succeed in the NFL. Players who fall below that level are almost never drafted early. Nor should they be: physical traits are easily measured; and there's generally little sense in using an early pick on a guy who lacks the physical tools necessary to do his job.

 

But once you have the bare minimum physical tools necessary to succeed as an NFL QB (such as the arm strength to make all the throws, for example), then your mental traits become considerably more important. Can you read defenses? Can you process information quickly? Can you throw the ball accurately? Do you have the will to succeed? Once a QB's physical gifts are above a certain minimal level, questions like those decide whether he's going to be a successful NFL QB.

Yeah, eggheads at MIT and Berkeley are always much, much better free throw shooters than boneheads at Buff State or Oneonta.

[Dorkington]

Steve Young was known for being an incredibly smart guy, on and off the field. This doesn't mean much but it rated him the 8th smartest player ever to play in the NFL (Fitz was 14).http://bleacherreport.com/articles/533920-ryan-fitzpatrick-and-the-25-smartest-players-in-nfl-history#page/19

He won an NCAA Top VIII award for student athletes (that is half sports, half academics/leadership). He got a law degree (and I've read he got a med degree, too, but havent seen it elsewhere). Successful venture capitalist. He was asked to speak at the Republican National Convention. It's easy not to like some of his views, and he's quite outspoken, not to mention several concussions which probably affect him to this day. But he's known as highly smart player and guy.

Really?

 

Thats surprising. He always came off as a bit of a dolt to me, and most people I watch football with. I guess he's a book smart guy, but has a hard time with social situations. Which, is actually fairly normal. Thanks for the education.

[DreReed83]

You answered your own question: There is no can't miss pick. Even Bradford had his detractors prior to the draft. With respect to Newton, and a little more vague with Gabbert, there is a consensus forming. The consensus is that CN is an extraordinary talent. If that is the case then why shy away from that caliber of talent to fill a qb need? The Bills are in an excellent position to draft a highly rated qb with their third pick because they already have an adequate qb in Fitz to serve as a bridge qb. If you think that Fitz is a longterm answer then you and I have major differences in judgment.

 

Anyone who has an iota of realism about the Bills recognizes that they are years away from being a serious team. As it stands they are closer to being an expansion caliber team than a playoff caliber team? This is a very flawed team created by a very flawed organization. Does anyone realistically expect us to jump ahead of the Jets or the Pats over the next couple of years? The only way this franchise can eventually overtake these teams and earn a playoff spot is to get a talented qb prospect on the roster and develop him. The Bills are in position to get that caliber of talent with the third pick in this year's draft. It would be a big mistake to not seize the opportunity. The Rams took the plunge with Bradford and it worked out well. The Falcons took the plunge with Ryan and it worked out well. The Bucs took the plunge with Freeman and it worked out well. Why can't the Bills do the same?

 

Because all 3 of those QBs are pocket passers that think pass first and not run first? At the NFL level, you have to be able to read the defense.

 

Cam Newton came out of an option spread offense. Please name ONE QB that came out of an option offense in college that became successful at the next level. Name ONE. If we go QB with the 3rd i'll take my chances with Gabbert.

Edited February 15, 2011 by DreReed83

[Kelly the Dog]

Please name ONE QB that came out of an option offense in college that became successful at the next level. Name ONE..

Sam Bradford.

 

The Patriots PLAY a spread offense right now.

 

All rookies have to completely relearn how to read defenses when they come into the NFL. They all basically start from scratch. It's nice when they come from pro style offenses, and probably makes the transition a little easier, but the guys that do it don't do it because they ran pro style offenses in college, they do it because they have the talent and mental and physical capabilities of reading NFL defenses after playing, studying, and being coached well AFTER they get into the NFL.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog

[Beerball]

Really?

 

Thats surprising. He always came off as a bit of a dolt to me, and most people I watch football with. I guess he's a book smart guy, but has a hard time with social situations. Which, is actually fairly normal. Thanks for the education.

If I have to listen to someone discuss football...he's in my top 2. To each his own, eh?

[CosmicBills]

Sam Bradford.

 

The Patriots PLAY a spread offense right now.

 

All rookies have to completely relearn how to read defenses when they come into the NFL. They all basically start from scratch. It's nice when they come from pro style offenses, and probably makes the transition a little easier, but the guys that do it don't do it because they ran pro style offenses in college, they do it because they have the talent and mental and physical capabilities of reading NFL defenses after playing, studying, and being coached well AFTER they get into the NFL.

Stop being logical and rational. DreReed doesn't speak that language.

[DreReed83]

Sam Bradford.

 

The Patriots PLAY a spread offense right now.

 

All rookies have to completely relearn how to read defenses when they come into the NFL. They all basically start from scratch. It's nice when they come from pro style offenses, and probably makes the transition a little easier, but the guys that do it don't do it because they ran pro style offenses in college, they do it because they have the talent and mental and physical capabilities of reading NFL defenses after playing, studying, and being coached well AFTER they get into the NFL.

 

You do know theres a difference between a spread option and a spread offense right? So you still havent named an option QB thats made it successfully to the next level. Try again.

 

Stop being logical and rational. DreReed doesn't speak that language.

 

I clearly do. So how did Vick improve his completion percentage from 45% and 55% career to 62% this year? Please tell me. Also tell me how U of Washington is an "elite" program? I'd love to hear this.

Edited February 15, 2011 by DreReed83

[b.ball17]

Another running back.

 

 

Why would we draft another RB?? Fred Jackson is a great part of the bills offense and on the off chance something happens to him we have CJ Spiller who i know didnt have a good season this year but has great potential to be and elite running back.... Right now the Bills are in a position where they need to be a young "work in progress" team where we are developing young guys. Spiller is a good option to keep with as well as, I think, Newton and take him and develop him

[b.ball17]

They will. Just next year when the Bills will draft Andrew Luck with the #1 overall pick in 2012.

 

 

Thats kinda a dumb thing to say. Are you saying you WANT the Bills to go 0-16?? Why pass on a quarterback that has just as much skill as Luck but with better vision and speed?? If you ask me who can play THE POSITION better my answer is Luck..... But Luck's got nothing on Newton in terms of ability to move and improvise. Dont get me wrong, Luck is one hell of an athlete and a damn good quarterback but Newton can make things happen in a quicker and more successful way than Luck. I say Newton with #3 pick and see where that takes us.

[DrDawkinstein]

Thats kinda a dumb thing to say. Are you saying you WANT the Bills to go 0-16?? Why pass on a quarterback that has just as much skill as Luck but with better vision and speed?? If you ask me who can play THE POSITION better my answer is Luck..... But Luck's got nothing on Newton in terms of ability to move and improvise. Dont get me wrong, Luck is one hell of an athlete and a damn good quarterback but Newton can make things happen in a quicker and more successful way than Luck. I say Newton with #3 pick and see where that takes us.

 

Anyone that talks about Andrew Luck, or "next year's draft" is out of their mind.

 

Here is the reality we are dealing with: The Bills have the #3 pick in the 2011 draft. The #3 pick is the best pick we've had in over 25 years. The plan is that this year's team will improve over last year's team.

 

Those are the facts. Any talk about "next year" or making a play for Luck is based in pure fantasy.

 

We (the Bills) can only deal with the reality of the situation that is in front of us. It will be up to Buddy to decide who to pick at #3 out of the players available. If that is Newton, so be it. If that is Dareus, so be it. If that is Green, so be it. If that is Miller, so be it.

 

But I guarantee that NO decision will be made with "Well, we can get so-and-so next year". If we do somehow end up with the #1 or #2 pick next year, so be it as well. We will then deal with our options and needs at that time.