Carucci: Bills GM Nix likes Cam Newton "a great deal"

[DreReed83]

Do you think he is uncoachable?

 

The way I see it, if we do draft a QB, he's not going to be starting this year (or even the next). So unless you think the guy is completely uncoachable, I wouldn't hold his relative "greenness" against him seeing as he's going to get a chance to be with an NFL team for a year or two before being thrown into the fire.

 

(Note: I'm not for or against drafting Newton as a QB pick, I'm a bit neutral on the subject, as I think we need to focus on defense)

 

Which is why I'd take a shot at someone like Jake Locker in the 2nd round. He has all the tools that Cam has. Except he already has 2 years of running a pro style offense, so he's already a step or 2 ahead of Cam. His transition will be a lot smoother even though both have a lot of work to do. I truly think Locker's problems come from him playing 2 sports at the college level but once he focuses on only 1 sport, he'll be fine. Anyways, I think we should go defense now but if we were to take a QB at 3, I hope it's Gabbert and not Newton.

[Dorkington]

I think both Gabbert and Newton could work out well. But as we all know, the Bills tend to draft the wrong potential star. So I'm just going to assume whomever we draft is the wrong guy.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Dorkington

[Bill from NYC]

That's is almost entirely untrue. Toughness is physical. Accuracy is not a mental gift, it's physical. Guys on your list like Danny Weurfell, Detmer, Leinart, etc, along with easily a dozen QBs every year coming out of college have the abilities and mental gifts necessary to become franchise quarterbacks in the NFL. Usually the one thing holding them back is their physical gifts, either they are too short, too slender, lack the arm strength, mechanics, footwork, too slow, etc. NFL's need both the physical gifts and the mental capacity to succeed, and not many become franchise players without both, but most of the great college quarterbacks (that aren't gadget players or runners) lack the size and arm and mechanics to play in the NFL. Kellen Moore is a good example this year. Colt McCoy last year would have been the top overall pick if he had Bradford's size and arm.

 

Teams draft players because of their physical gifts who lack the mental abilities all the time because they HOPE they develop from the neck up because they know you can't succeed without the physical gifts. You rarely see guys drafted high who are great throwers and brilliant football minds without sufficient size and arm. The reason you always see guys with big arms and great size fail is because teams gamble they will pick up the mental game. They don't even try to draft guys high who lack the physical game.*

 

*Leinart, for example, was an exception, but only because some scouts and GMs, like the Cardinals, THOUGHT his physical limitations wouldn't prevent him from succeeding. Many others, including myself, saw him and said the guy has everything BUT he has no arm strength and is too slow to play in the NFL. He'll get killed and he won't be able to get the ball downfield even if he is accurate and can read defenses and is a winner. And that's exactly what happened.

 

 

I tend to agree. I don't think players such as Marino, Bledsoe and Kelly were drafted because of their superior intellect. These guys had various assests that were primarily physical. Kelly and Marino had a quicker release than Bledsoe, but he could throw 60 yard passes with tons of air under them and drop them into a receivers hands. Bottom line is that all 3 were throwers. Peyton Manning would be the most cerebral qb I have ever seen, but he is huge, moves well, and also has a great arm.

Brees doesn't seem to have as many physical gifts as do most great qbs, but he is able to get out of trouble and get the ball where he wants while on the move.

 

The above is not to state that a qb can make it on physical gifts alone, but I agree with you in that the days of being a successful qb without having lots of talent (Billy Kilmer, Joe Kapp, etc.) are probably over.

[JohnC]

Harsh, or something that might sway me from using the franchise's highest draft pick in 26 years on someone who will get 40M+ guaranteed? If I'm the Bills and I want to pick the right player rather than a ticket seller (we'll see there), I'm looking elsewhere. This is a huge investment and one that better be researched to the nth degree. And BTW, isn't Buddy wary of 1 year wonders? Because last I checked Blinn JC isn't Auburn or Alabama.

 

What is it about Newton that is making you queasy? It certainly isn't his performances in college. He was the most impactful player in the SEC and arguably in the country. You and others have concerns relating to his character. Yet, he was one of the most popular players on the team. The team responded to his leadership on and off (practice) the field? The coaches respected him. They marveled at his committment. Are you questioning the judgment of the people who directly know him? There are a lot of people who throw anonymous slings at him and smear him, yet they do it from afar. They don't know him. Those that do know him have a much better judgment of him.

 

Anyone who follows the Bills for an extended period of time knows that the Bills are a failed organization. They will continue to be bad and irrelevant if they continue to not seize the opportunities that are available. This year, the Bills are in position to draft a franchise qb that can solidify the most important position on the field. If the scouts believe that Newton or Gabbert are those type of qbs, why would the front office pass on that opportunity? Do you think Fitz is the answer?

 

I'm not advocating DT necessarily, just saying Cam Newton isn't the player third overall.

 

What will your view be if Newton or Gabbert do move up in the draft rankings in the 1-6 range? Are you still going to argue that a third ranked player shouldn't be drafted at the third spot?

[K Gun Special]

I tend to agree. I don't think players such as Marino, Bledsoe and Kelly were drafted because of their superior intellect. These guys had various assests that were primarily physical. Kelly and Marino had a quicker release than Bledsoe, but he could throw 60 yard passes with tons of air under them and drop them into a receivers hands. Bottom line is that all 3 were throwers. Peyton Manning would be the most cerebral qb I have ever seen, but he is huge, moves well, and also has a great arm.

Brees doesn't seem to have as many physical gifts as do most great qbs, but he is able to get out of trouble and get the ball where he wants while on the move.

 

The above is not to state that a qb can make it on physical gifts alone, but I agree with you in that the days of being a successful qb without having lots of talent (Billy Kilmer, Joe Kapp, etc.) are probably over.

 

 

You have a point.

 

But those mentioned also have/had football smarts, which can be measured on film and not so much from watching TV.

Newton may not be a genius but coaches can get a good idea from watching film and fillling in any holes during the interview, such as why certain packages are employed against defenses. There you can get sense of his intellectual horsepower.

 

Football smarts + the tools = great qb.

[Fan in Chicago]

Harsh, or something that might sway me from using the franchise's highest draft pick in 26 years on someone who will get 40M+ guaranteed? If I'm the Bills and I want to pick the right player rather than a ticket seller (we'll see there), I'm looking elsewhere. This is a huge investment and one that better be researched to the nth degree. And BTW, isn't Buddy wary of 1 year wonders? Because last I checked Blinn JC isn't Auburn or Alabama.

 

I'm not advocating DT necessarily, just saying Cam Newton isn't the player third overall.

Good points. Besides the money (which is ofcoruse a big deal), the state of our roster is such that we cannot afford to have a another failure of such a high pick. Mike Williams set us back a lot and we need to err on the side of a safe pick rather than a high risk-potential high reward. Take a solid player who will make the team better for years to come starting with this season.

[JohnC]

Good points. Besides the money (which is ofcoruse a big deal), the state of our roster is such that we cannot afford to have a another failure of such a high pick. Mike Williams set us back a lot and we need to err on the side of a safe pick rather than a high risk-potential high reward. Take a solid player who will make the team better for years to come starting with this season./font]

 

I don't understand your logic. You are making the case that it is better to draft a solid player at the third pick rather than a more talented player at that lofty draft spot? That doesn't make sense. If you get a chance to draft an impact player, then you do so.

 

Your concern about the amount of money the Bills will have to spend at their high draft positon also has me puzzled. When you draft at the third spot you pay third spot money (qbs get more)? Why would you take a lower risk solid player and pay him at a high talent rate? If the payment system is slotted why wouldn't you want the talent to match the slot?

 

The Bills are not only under the cap they are usually under their self-imposed cash to cap payroll. Don't worry about how much a particular player is going to get because the Bills will not allow the payroll to get out of control. Although Ralph and his minions are not very good at fielding a competent team, they are exceptional at managing a tight payroll.

[Haven Moses]

Why Cam Newton? You can go and get Jamarcus Russell for free. Same thing.

[CosmicBills]

Why Cam Newton? You can go and get Jamarcus Russell for free. Same thing.

[PDaDdy]

In what year of this team's existence are they finally going to focus on stopping the run and protecting the QB? WHAT FREAKING YEAR???

 

The year we become a good team?????

[DreReed83]

What is it about Newton that is making you queasy? It certainly isn't his performances in college. He was the most impactful player in the SEC and arguably in the country. You and others have concerns relating to his character. Yet, he was one of the most popular players on the team. The team responded to his leadership on and off (practice) the field? The coaches respected him. They marveled at his committment. Are you questioning the judgment of the people who directly know him? There are a lot of people who throw anonymous slings at him and smear him, yet they do it from afar. They don't know him. Those that do know him have a much better judgment of him.

 

Anyone who follows the Bills for an extended period of time knows that the Bills are a failed organization. They will continue to be bad and irrelevant if they continue to not seize the opportunities that are available. This year, the Bills are in position to draft a franchise qb that can solidify the most important position on the field. If the scouts believe that Newton or Gabbert are those type of qbs, why would the front office pass on that opportunity? Do you think Fitz is the answer?

 

 

 

What will your view be if Newton or Gabbert do move up in the draft rankings in the 1-6 range? Are you still going to argue that a third ranked player shouldn't be drafted at the third spot?

 

His performance in college doesn't mean jacksht so stop bringin up his college numbers. If you're going by college numbers then Ryan Leaf and his 3968 yds, 34 TDs and 11 INT with a 158.7 rating would've translated to the NFL well. College numbers and awards don't mean sht.

[CosmicBills]

His performance in college doesn't mean jacksht so stop bringin up his college numbers. If you're going by college numbers then Ryan Leaf and his 3968 yds, 34 TDs and 11 INT with a 158.7 rating would've translated to the NFL well. College numbers and awards don't mean sht.

If you can't go by college numbers, and you can't go by his physical skills, what CAN you go by? You seem to be ruling out everything in the "pro" column and saying they don't translate while everything in your "con" column does?

 

You can't have it both ways.

[Fan in Chicago]

I don't understand your logic. You are making the case that it is better to draft a solid player at the third pick rather than a more talented player at that lofty draft spot? That doesn't make sense. If you get a chance to draft an impact player, then you do so.

 

Your concern about the amount of money the Bills will have to spend at their high draft positon also has me puzzled. When you draft at the third spot you pay third spot money (qbs get more)? Why would you take a lower risk solid player and pay him at a high talent rate? If the payment system is slotted why wouldn't you want the talent to match the slot?

 

The Bills are not only under the cap they are usually under their self-imposed cash to cap payroll. Don't worry about how much a particular player is going to get because the Bills will not allow the payroll to get out of control. Although Ralph and his minions are not very good at fielding a competent team, they are exceptional at managing a tight payroll.

Perhaps I did not state my point properly. What I meant is that if there is a choice between a 'project QB' or a can't miss pick, I vote for the can't miss pick. Again, I realize that there really isn't a 'can't miss' when it comes to a draft but every year there is a consensus about some players who are far more NFL ready and unlikely to fail. Sam Bradford comes to mind. In this case, I would rather the Bills make a safe pick than one who is risky. I am not talking about money at all.

[Kelly the Dog]

His performance in college doesn't mean jacksht so stop bringin up his college numbers. If you're going by college numbers then Ryan Leaf and his 3968 yds, 34 TDs and 11 INT with a 158.7 rating would've translated to the NFL well. College numbers and awards don't mean sht.

What does mean sht, however, is pure natural talent, size, arm strength, body strength, speed, passing ability, passing mechanics, accuracy, leadership, winning, mental toughness, physical toughness, production, poise... Newton has all of them. Some of them in awesome amounts.

 

What is unknown is his football IQ, although there is no indication that he lacks it. He may not have enough of it to succeed but his coaches all have said he's done everything we have asked of him. It's something he must prove. It's a lie to say he doesn't possess it because you just don't know (in fact, at this point, probably no one on Earth knows whether he has what it takes or not). It did surprise me, however, that when all the outside pressure mounted on him about the allegations, and the media swarmed, and the intensity mounted, he played his very best football. (The Bowl Game was his worst game of the year, IMO, I'm talking about when the major story broke with a few games left in the schedule)

 

What he doesn't have is experience reading complex defenses, experience under center, experience running pro style offenses. It's a huge question mark, except experience under center (which he has done before and can be learned fairly easily). The other two could easily be his downfall. And it will take a couple years before that is known.

 

He's a huge risk at #3 pick in the draft.

[DreReed83]

If you can't go by college numbers, and you can't go by his physical skills, what CAN you go by? You seem to be ruling out everything in the "pro" column and saying they don't translate while everything in your "con" column does?

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

OK then we should've taken Timmy Chang, Graham Harrell and Colt Brennan. They're college numbers were GREAT. Ryan Leaf should've been the best QB in the NFL. Way better numbers AND better arm than lets say a Drew Brees and a Tom Brady right?

 

If you look at a lot of the successful NFL QB's their numbers in college weren't mindblowing. They were efficient with the ability to play QB. That's what I look at. Can they play the position? Can they read defense? Do they have a high football IQ? Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Joe Flacco put up similar numbers in their last years in college. 20 some TDs and 5-7INTs . Something along those lines. Those aren't record setting numbers but they know how to play QB. That's what I look at. Not college numbers. College stats are skewed by the systems they run so I don't really care to see them. Don't care at all. So drool away at his "NUMBERS"

 

I'll look at the real reasons he'll fail at the next level. Like lack of experience at the college level. Lack of ability to read a defense. Relying too much on his natural abilities. Low football IQ. Stuff like that.

[CosmicBills]

OK then we should've taken Timmy Chang, Graham Harrell and Colt Brennan. They're college numbers were GREAT. Ryan Leaf should've been the best QB in the NFL. Way better numbers AND better arm than lets say a Drew Brees and a Tom Brady right?

 

If you look at a lot of the successful NFL QB's their numbers in college weren't mindblowing. They were efficient with the ability to play QB. That's what I look at. Can they play the position? Can they read defense? Do they have a high football IQ? Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Joe Flacco put up similar numbers in their last years in college. 20 some TDs and 5-7INTs . Something along those lines. Those aren't record setting numbers but they know how to play QB. That's what I look at. Not college numbers. College stats are skewed by the systems they run so I don't really care to see them. Don't care at all. So drool away at his "NUMBERS"

 

I'll look at the real reasons he'll fail at the next level. Like lack of experience at the college level. Lack of ability to read a defense. Relying too much on his natural abilities. Low football IQ. Stuff like that.

In numerous posts you say people can't be blinded by his physical skills. Then you say you can't be blinded by numbers because Leaf was a bust ... You say he has a low football IQ but yet you offer no proof of this other than "he never looks at more than one read" which has been proven to be totally false.

 

Look, you don't like the guy. We get it. You have a hard on for the anti-Cam crowd. It's cool. The dude may be a bust. He may not. You don't know and until you provide some hard data you should just ease up on killing the people who like the dude.

 

(For the record, I'm not an advocate of drafting Newton either, but speaking in absolutes about him right now is just setting yourself up to look like a fool.)

[ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23]

Ability to read defenses is a question all this year's QB have to answer because most of them did not play in a pro style offense where they were required to read defenses. That's not a criticism that applies only to Newton. Also, remember during this time of year that scouts and NFL personnel men will throw out misinformation for different purposes. 1.) To influence opinion on a player they actually want. So they float rumor or lies to attempt to weaken his stock enough to grab him. 2.) To see how the player reacts to the criticism. Does he self-destruct? Does he set out to prove the opinions wrong? Does it affect him at all? Because you hear something about a player does not mean the scouts or personnel men actually believe that about the player.

 

Newton led his JUCO to a national title before he got to Auburn. You might not want to count that, but the scouts will. Why? Because winning is winning. Newton is used to winning. He's used to leading his team successfully. He did it in JUCO then guess what? He did it again at Auburn. Like Buddy Nix said last year, players who have been successful over a period of time usually continue to be successful. Arthur Moats and Danny Batten where small college players who were successful. Neither played in a BCS conference and Nix drafted them so it must not be a pre-requisite that that success comes only in big conferences. Newton happens to have been successful at multiple levels. That's not a one year wonder.

 

Newton screwed up and had to leave Florida. He had to go to college football's minor league. He didn't wash out. He led his team to a national title and he stood out in doing so. His play earned him another chance in the SEC.

 

He outperformed his competition in spring ball and won the starting job. He led his team to comeback wins at home and on the road. In the middle of an adversity filled period when allegations were being made against him and his family on television, newspapers, magazines and blogs, he seemed to play better each week. That's indicative of a strong mind, an ability to focus on his work, an ability to rise to the occasion in spite of external pressure. A lot of people were waiting for him to fail. Many others were hoping he failed. He did not. The bigger the game the better he played: big game player. Got injured in the Championship game. He didn't play his best game by far, but he TOUGHED it out and still led his team to the victory. His teammates obviously followed his lead. They rallied around him and it was easy to see week in and week out. That does not happen if they don't respect him. And remember this is a guy who is in his first year in the program. He had to earn that respect. His strong work ethic has been written about.

 

Call the media day session whatever you will, but it also showed the young man has been working diligently on his skills and has stayed in shape. He did not have to go get a QB coach to help him strengthen his game, but he did. He did not have to take on Warren Moon as an advisor and welcome his feedback, but he did. He's nothing if not serious about football. He's also very polished in front of the camera. He's a guy who has charisma. He has "it." Faces of franchises have this quality.

 

There are questions about any rookie prospect and Newton is no different. But there's a lot to like about Newton outside of 6'6" 250, strong arm, can make all the throws and has good mobility.

 

This brought tears to my eye.. You deserve and oscar for this post... I wanted Cam but now if we don't get Cam after reading this I'll be disappointed...

[Coach Tuesday]

Those of you who want Newton (or any QB) at 3, do you agree that he isn't going to start next year? So that will be two years in a row that the Bills will spend a top ten pick on a player on offense who essentially redshirts.

 

Look, I understand that you need to seize the opportunity to pick a franchise QB when you have the chance, but at some point, some day, the Bills will actually have to try to stop the run. It has to happen if they plan to enter the business of winning games.

[MikeSpeed]

I'm usually not much for hypotheticals, but I think this is a real possibility, so here goes...

Let's say we draft Cam Newton #3, and he spends all of 2011 on the bench (like many here would like to see). The team is so bad that we end up with the #1 pick in 2012. So we are sitting there staring at Andrew Luck with the #1 pick, and have an unknown QB in our pocket. What do we do? There would be options to trade I'm sure, but man, passing on Luck for a still unknown.

[Ozymandius]

Kelly the Dog has demonstrated strong bite in this thread. I agree with everything he's said.