DC Tom Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Wouldn't you think they would want to do it on their own? This thread seems to be focusing on the 18 month timeline, which is valid, but I think given an alternative most countries would welcome the option of getting out of the dollar. Why would anyone want money that loses value so quickly? Not in the absence of a viable alternative. Really, I was just contradicting the doom-'n'-gloom "we're !@#$ed" reactionary attitude to the IMF's position and any attempt at implementation they might make. Moving away from the dollar as a reserve currency will happen (eventually), but it won't spiral us into a bottomless economic pit (since that will spiral everyone else into the same pit - who wants to devalue dollars while they're holding them?), and it sure as hell isn't going to happen because the IMF wants to market SDRs as "The New Dollar" - or more accurately, "The New New Dollar," since the Euro was The New Dollar... Hell, for the IMF to implement SDRs as a reserve currency, they'd need the literal approval of the US Government anyway, since we hold veto power over their policy (we're the only country that does - that's how the IMF is organized). When the new reserve currency emerges, it's going to be another country's currency that can reasonably guarantee their own economic and physical security (e.g. the British pound in the 19th century). It sure as **** won't be coming from the IMF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Is it The Hell with... or To Hell with...? I've always thought it was To Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) Also last November, French President Nicolas Sarkozy proposed having the yuan enter the pool of currencies in the International Monetary Fund`s Special Drawing Rights, as a step to wean the international monetary system off its reliance on the dollar. “The smart thing for the IMF to do would be to put the yuan in the SDR basket today,” Jim O`Neill, chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, told Reuters. “Then the SDR would have some obvious appeal to the private sector: this could quite rapidly open the door to less dependence on the dollar.” According to Reuters, the SDR currently accounts for only 4 percent of global reserves, or $308 billion; the four currencies that make up the SDR – the euro, the Japanese yen, the pound sterling and the U.S. dollar – account for only 46 percent of world trade. A five-year review of the SDR basket completed this month excluded the yuan because it is not freely traded on international currency exchanges; the admission of the yuan into the IMF basket comprising the SDR would be a major accomplishment for yuan and a major setback for the dollar. Clearly, Russia, China and France all anticipate the coming day when the dollar will be abandoned as the global foreign-exchange currency and the standard for settling international trades. 18 months If QE continues past June "rapidly open the door to less dependence on the dollar" The Yuan is king if this happens. Edited February 12, 2011 by whateverdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Hell, for the IMF to implement SDRs as a reserve currency, they'd need the literal approval of the US Government anyway, since we hold veto power over their policy (we're the only country that does - that's how the IMF is organized). When the new reserve currency emerges, it's going to be another country's currency that can reasonably guarantee their own economic and physical security (e.g. the British pound in the 19th century). It sure as **** won't be coming from the IMF. Ha...didn't know that. Good stuff. I definitely agree the move away from the dollar will be more gradual, but I guess I just don't see it the same that the rest of the world has to make sure it's a soft landing. I just think the overwhelming speed that we are devaluing the dollar is going to motivate these countries to cut ties and deal with the aftermath as best they can. And as I kind of said before, even if it is a very soft landing, is the US capable of learning how to survive on a level playing field? I'm sure that like all things, we'll find a way, but it's going to be after some very bad times and I doubt we're the same country when it's over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Ha...didn't know that. Good stuff. I definitely agree the move away from the dollar will be more gradual, but I guess I just don't see it the same that the rest of the world has to make sure it's a soft landing. I just think the overwhelming speed that we are devaluing the dollar is going to motivate these countries to cut ties and deal with the aftermath as best they can. And as I kind of said before, even if it is a very soft landing, is the US capable of learning how to survive on a level playing field? I'm sure that like all things, we'll find a way, but it's going to be after some very bad times and I doubt we're the same country when it's over. Didn't know that either until I started looking in to how the SDRs are structured. Apparently it takes a 85% supermajority vote to make any changes...with the US dollar being 17% of the pool. 85%'s not reachable without our acquiescence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Didn't know that either until I started looking in to how the SDRs are structured. Apparently it takes a 85% supermajority vote to make any changes...with the US dollar being 17% of the pool. 85%'s not reachable without our acquiescence. Section 2. Compulsory withdrawal(a) If a member fails to fulfill any of its obligations under this Agreement, the Fund may declare the member ineligible to use the general resources of the Fund. Nothing in this Section shall be deemed to limit the provisions of Article V, Section 5 or Article VI, Section 1. (b) If, after the expiration of a reasonable period following a declaration of ineligibility under (a) above, the member persists in its failure to fulfill any of its obligations under this Agreement, the Fund may, by a seventy percent majority of the total voting power, suspend the voting rights of the member. During the period of the suspension, the provisions of Schedule L shall apply. The Fund may, by a seventy percent majority of the total voting power, terminate the suspension at any time. © If, after the expiration of a reasonable period following a decision of suspension under (b) above, the member persists in its failure to fulfill any of its obligations under this Agreement, that member may be required to withdraw from membership in the Fund by a decision of the Board of Governors carried by a majority of the Governors having eighty-five percent of the total voting power. (d) Regulations shall be adopted to ensure that before action is taken against any member under (a), (b), or © above, the member shall be informed in reasonable time of the complaint against it and given an adequate opportunity for stating its case, both orally and in writing. Edited February 12, 2011 by whateverdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Didn't know that either until I started looking in to how the SDRs are structured. Apparently it takes a 85% supermajority vote to make any changes...with the US dollar being 17% of the pool. 85%'s not reachable without our acquiescence. but what if they give a 110% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 potential buyers for our homes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 This has been happening for awhile - people have been inching towards the exits, the problem is that that the euro isn't a particularly safe option either and there are no other contenders for reserve currency, china has been doing currency swaps and trying to move into tangible assets but it is a slow process as they don't want to destroy either their dollar assets or market for their goods, China's main goals now are improving their own domestic markets and to move up the value chain on their exports. I made a comment almost exactly like this one about a year ago, regarding currency swaps, diversification into tangible assets and China's focus on Domestic growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Is it The Hell with... or To Hell with...? I've always thought it was To I've wondered this for years. I second "to" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Ha...didn't know that. Good stuff. I definitely agree the move away from the dollar will be more gradual, but I guess I just don't see it the same that the rest of the world has to make sure it's a soft landing. I just think the overwhelming speed that we are devaluing the dollar is going to motivate these countries to cut ties and deal with the aftermath as best they can. And as I kind of said before, even if it is a very soft landing, is the US capable of learning how to survive on a level playing field? I'm sure that like all things, we'll find a way, but it's going to be after some very bad times and I doubt we're the same country when it's over. It's in no responsible countries interest to see a mass liquidation of US treasuries. They will attempt to defend this from happening, without a doubt. A mass panicky exodus of the US dollar would bring literal chaos to the world, my guess is that we will see a gradual decline the value of the dollar vs. developing nation currencies and commodities with bouts of mini panic selling along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) youtube.com/watch?v=sHctAPq3ruE potential buyers for our homes? Thanks for posting that, It truly is amazing how far the Chinese have come in such a short time. I remember in the early ninety we had an older client that would insist on showing us his slide shows of places around the world he visited. On one occasion, I managed to stay awake long enough to see his slides from a recent visit to China. The pictures were from a boat tour on the Yangtze river I believe. I was stunned to see many barges of coal being off lifted by hand by hundreds of Chinese with straw made baskets, no motorized equipment. Now, the Chinese buy million dollar homes in the US so their children can have a place to stay while they attend American universities, graduate and take this knowledge back to China to continue kicking our collective asses economically. An't America great! Edited February 14, 2011 by whateverdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thanks for posting that, It truly is amazing how far the Chinese have come in such a short time. I remember in the early ninety we had an older client that would insist on showing us his slide shows of places around the world he visited. On one occasion, I managed to stay awake long enough to see his slides from a recent visit to China. The pictures were from a boat tour on the Yangtze river I believe. I was stunned to see many barges of coal being off lifted by hand by hundreds of Chinese with straw made baskets, no motorized equipment. Now, the Chinese buy million dollar homes in the US so their children can have a place to stay while they attend American universities, graduate and take this knowledge back to China to continue kicking our collective asses economically. An't America great! They haven't come that far, but a handful have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) They haven't come that far, but a handful have. "Of course, I would be lying if I didn't say I was jealous of the big cars being driven around by those rich guys," he said, as his two friends nodded their heads in agreement. "It actually makes we want to work harder, so I can have a car like that one day." Between 1997 and 2007, average annual per capita incomes in rural areas rose to 4,140 yuan from 2,090 yuan. Over the same period, that figure went from 5,160 yuan to 13,786 yuan for farmers' city cousins The per-capita disposable income of urban people was 17,175 yuan ($2,514.6) in 2009, up 8.8 percent from a year earlier, Don't blink they are closing fast. The rich city folks are the ones buying homes in the US. Edited February 14, 2011 by whateverdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) Don't blink they are closing fast. The rich city folks are the ones buying homes in the US. No doubt quite a few people in China have money but in terms of labor rights and people working in terrible conditions--which is what that coal story represented--China is a fuggin' mess. China still has to solve a lot of problems that they are currently putting off. The USA is putting off its spending and debt problem year after year. China is putting off its human rights problem year after year. The good news is that the US debt problem is starting to get something more than lip service, albeit minimally so because both parties ignore the biggest lines on the budget. (Retards.) Edited February 14, 2011 by Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 "Of course, I would be lying if I didn't say I was jealous of the big cars being driven around by those rich guys," he said, as his two friends nodded their heads in agreement. "It actually makes we want to work harder, so I can have a car like that one day.". Those poor laborers having to work to better their position in life while being exploited by the rich. They don't even realize how unfair it is that they should have to work to earn the money they're fully entitled to. That quote is the clearest demonstration yet of how free-market capitalism has failed, and that China must adopt more socialist policies like Europe and the US to be successful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) Those poor laborers having to work to better their position in life while being exploited by the rich. They don't even realize how unfair it is that they should have to work to earn the money they're fully entitled to. That quote is the clearest demonstration yet of how free-market capitalism has failed, and that China must adopt more socialist policies like Europe and the US to be successful... Ironic isn't it the Communist sounds like a capitalist and capitalists are sounding more like communists. So whats next, Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria! (ghost-buster reference) I know this dates me but what the !@#$. Edited February 15, 2011 by whateverdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 So whats next, Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria! (ghost-buster reference) Really? I thought it was from Yentl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 both parties ignore the biggest lines on the budget. (Retards.) And here I thought the military and Social Security were the biggest lines on the budget. I learn something new every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Really? I thought it was from Yentl. What does Sage's new diet have to do with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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