Can Kyle Williams play DE in a 3-4?

[DrDawkinstein]

Great link. Thanks.

 

It really shows how weak we are at DE and LB, regardless of scheme or variation.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Currently, yes. But with another decent draft and a FA pickup, we could be very good at DL and ok(and improving) at LB.

 

A DL roster of Edwards, Williams, Troup, Carrington, Dareus, and a FA or Rookie NT, could be very good.

 

LBs, yeah, need some work. But I like Poz and Merriman if we can add around them. (and obviously if Merriman can stay healthy).

[Buffalo Barbarian]

If his skill set translates, he should be moved to DE. Stroud will likely be cut and can't play DE. Carrington has potential and Edwards is likely to return. We then need to add a large NT like Shaun Rogers or other massive size NT. 350 lbs of run stuffing

[boyst]

People forget we have Heart at NT. A rookie and wildcard unknown, but we do have a big massive NT on this team.

[Nasty]

If they sign an NT, it will be Soliai, not Rogers, IMO.

 

I sure hope so myself, anyway.

I am with you a younger NT in Soliai rather then a cancer like Rogers. But like someone else pointed out we don't need to draft a DE like Dareus, we would already have Williams, Edwards, Carrington, and Johnson to play DE heck lets play McCargo at DE although we should cut him and Stroud. We have tons of DL is my point. We need play making LB's.

[LabattBlue]

I am with you a younger NT in Soliai rather then a cancer like Rogers. But like someone else pointed out we don't need to draft a DE like Dareus, we would already have Williams, Edwards, Carrington, and Johnson to play DE heck lets play McCargo at DE although we should cut him and Stroud. We have tons of DL is my point. We need play making LB's.

Quantity does not equal quality!!

[Beerball]

Agreed, I used him in my post just as an example. Would rather have Solai from Miami, or a draft pick, at NT.

Apologies if this has been pointed out (if not here then in the Solai thread)...

 

What you're saying isn't wrong, but have you considered:

 

Solai won't become a FA until a new deal is reached between the league and players. That (barring a miracle) will come after the draft. This offseason is just all screwed up. We could typically look at FA, then the draft, this time it will be reversed.

 

I suppose that teams will have to ignore FA and focus on the draft. Get their guys and then wait until a deal is struck. Once FA does start it's going to be even more of a sprint than it has in the past because teams can't look at a hole on their team and say...we'll fill that in the draft. I wonder how much Buddy's cautious wait and see approach will be impacted?

[DrDawkinstein]

Apologies if this has been pointed out (if not here then in the Solai thread)...

 

What you're saying isn't wrong, but have you considered:

 

Solai won't become a FA until a new deal is reached between the league and players. That (barring a miracle) will come after the draft. This offseason is just all screwed up. We could typically look at FA, then the draft, this time it will be reversed.

 

I suppose that teams will have to ignore FA and focus on the draft. Get their guys and then wait until a deal is struck. Once FA does start it's going to be even more of a sprint than it has in the past because teams can't look at a hole on their team and say...we'll fill that in the draft. I wonder how much Buddy's cautious wait and see approach will be impacted?

 

 

Yeah, it will be very interesting to see what happens and how it goes. Part of me thinks theyll get it done on March 3rd. The whole reversal of "draft before FA" could be a real kick in the crotch to the FO's plan. We'll see

[PDaDdy]

If his skill set translates, he should be moved to DE. Stroud will likely be cut and can't play DE. Carrington has potential and Edwards is likely to return. We then need to add a large NT like Shaun Rogers or other massive size NT. 350 lbs of run stuffing

 

I hope he can move! I now sing KW's praises but a 2 gap anchoring run stuffing NT he is not. The Bills and some fans need to stop trying to be the exception to the rule. Yes small, undersized guys can be very good but the vast majority of the guys that are great NTs have the size and strength. Size isn't everything but it's close.

[PDaDdy]

People forget we have Heart at NT. A rookie and wildcard unknown, but we do have a big massive NT on this team.

 

Who?....riiiiight.

[DrDawkinstein]

OK, well with Solai now franchised, I guess that is out of the picture.

 

I still like the idea of Williams at the end, and think we can run this defense very effectively. That is, as long as we add some LBs and a DL or two.

[Bangarang]

Who?....riiiiight.

 

Kellen Heard. A massive 6'6 355lb gorilla with an attitude. Doubt he turns into a real player but we'll see.

[BillsVet]

Kellen Heard. A massive 6'6 355lb gorilla with an attitude. Doubt he turns into a real player but we'll see.

 

Lonnie Harvey was 342 and he didn't even last through training camp. There's more to playing NT than being the biggest guy on the DL.

[....lybob]

Kellen Heard. A massive 6'6 355lb gorilla with an attitude. Doubt he turns into a real player but we'll see.

6'6 is a little tall for a NT and while he is listed as DL here he spent his last year in college playing RT and I think if he sticks with the Bills that's where he will be playing.

[BillsFan74]

If his skill set translates, he should be moved to DE. Stroud will likely be cut and can't play DE. Carrington has potential and Edwards is likely to return. We then need to add a large NT like Shaun Rogers or other massive size NT. 350 lbs of run stuffing

 

Williams would be a beast as a DE in the 3-4. We need a NT but Shaun Rogers is not a fit as a 3-4 NT he's a 4-3 tackle. I know he played NT in Cleveland but it was not a good fit. Best case for the Bills move Williams to LDE get a NT to go along with developing Troup. I would like to see Cullen Jenkins at RDE.

Edited February 26, 2011 by BillsFan74

[BillsVet]

Williams would be a beast as a DE in the 3-4. We need a NT but Shaun Rogers is not a fit as a 3-4 NT he's a 4-3 tackle. I know he played NT in Cleveland but it was not a good fit. Best case for the Bills move Williams to LDE get a NT to go along with developing Troup. I would like to see Cullen Jenkins at RDE.

 

Why would Williams be a "beast" in the 3-4? As a full time member of the DL, Buffalo yielded 170 yards rushing per game with him playing the nose or almost a 3 tech. He lacks the arm length to handle taller OT's who he'd line up as a 5 tech against. Shaun Rogers, OTOH, while unmotivated at times, is a true 3-4 NT who has played the position 3 seasons and went to a Pro Bowl in 2008 with Cleveland. Not saying Buffalo needs to sign him, but that's the type of player they need. I would guess they're hoping Troup can be the NT, which displaces their best defender in Williams. Either way, the defensive line is a mess of players who are 3-4 or 4-3 types.

 

Buffalo invested some serious resources into their DL last year by signing Dwan Edwards to a 4 yr 18M contract, and then using a 2nd and 3rd on Troup and Carrington respectively. To go back there and use more free agent dollars and/or a high pick is neglecting other areas (OT, LB, TE).

Edited February 26, 2011 by BillsVet

[BillsFan74]

Why would Williams be a "beast" in the 3-4? As a full time member of the DL, Buffalo yielded 170 yards rushing per game with him playing the nose or almost a 3 tech. He lacks the arm length to handle taller OT's who he'd line up as a 5 tech against. Shaun Rogers, OTOH, while unmotivated at times, is a true 3-4 NT who has played the position 3 seasons and went to a Pro Bowl in 2008 with Cleveland. Not saying Buffalo needs to sign him, but that's the type of player they need. I would guess they're hoping Troup can be the NT, which displaces their best defender in Williams. Either way, the defensive line is a mess of players who are 3-4 or 4-3 types.

 

Buffalo invested some serious resources into their DL last year by signing Dwan Edwards to a 4 yr 18M contract, and then using a 2nd and 3rd on Troup and Carrington respectively. To go back there and use more free agent dollars and/or a high pick is neglecting other areas (OT, LB, TE).

 

Your right let's trot out the same DL and just hope for a better result. Plus here what one person says about Rogers. “Playbook” analyst Brian Baldinger suggests that Rogers biggest problem was playing out of position in the Browns’ 3-4 defense. The 6-foot-4 Rodgers is not built in the mold of the more stout nose tackles like Vince Wilfork or Casey Hampton, making it difficult for him to play inside:

 

“He’s not a nose tackle. His strength is that as a player who at 350 pounds looks like he should be a nose tackle, is extremely light on his feet and is very athletic. He’s never really learned the nose tackle position. He’s a 4-3 defensive tackle, much like Albert Haynesworth, and that’s really where he’s more effective. Plus, he’s a good pass rusher. His effectiveness is negated at nose tackle. I still think he has some football left in him. He’s never been an every-down player, and most guys his size aren’t. He is what he is, but he’ll give you 30 good plays a game and is still a good player. I think he’ll be a valuable pickup for a lot of teams.”

 

A three-time Pro Bowler, Rogers played in a 4-3 scheme during his seven seasons in Detroit (2001-07), building a reputation a disruptive interior pass rusher who could penetrate gaps as a three-technique tackle. But many consider his best season to be 2008, when he registered 76 tackles and 4.5 sacks in his first season in Cleveland playing for Romeo Crennel, who currently runs the 3-4 defense in Kansas City.

 

Rogers may no longer be a player you build a defense around, but there’s little doubt teams will be tempted by his combination of size, talent and athleticism. There’s no shortage of contending 4-3 teams who could use an interior player like Rodgers, who many like Baldinger believe can still be a force.

Edited February 26, 2011 by BillsFan74

[BillsVet]

Your right let's trot out the same DL and just hope for a better result.

 

The point is not Rogers' ability to play as a 3-4 NT, it's Buffalo and what they're doing on the DL. In the span of 1 off-season, they signed or drafted 3 defensive lineman for their new defense with only Dwan Edwards getting regular minutes until hurt in 2010. If they were so high on Carrington and Troup based on their draft position, I'd expect those two to be starting at LDE and NT respectively in 2011. If not, and they've used more high picks or free agent dollars, then those players aren't developing as quickly as they should. It's not "trot out the same DL and hope for a better result."

[spartacus]

Williams has been successful at positions that MANY people said he didnt "fit". It's not just that he has played NT while being "undersized", but also that he has played it WELL. I dont ever recall him playing a 4-3 DE, but I might have missed those couple of plays, I know he has almost always lined up inside.

 

Good players are good players. Yes there are some different intricacies and assignments between a 3-4 DE, a 4-3 DT, and an NT, but Williams has been a force no matter where he plays. Ballers are ballers. Get the best guys on the field and tell them to go to work.

 

I dont know what you have seen from him that makes you think he CANT simply slide over a few feet and be just as effective??

 

Williams "success" has translated into the the worst run defense in the league

 

 

maybe the Bills should hire some defensive coaches that actually know how to run the 3-4 to take advantage of his skills

 

 

[Spiderweb]

I think Williams has proven that he can play ANY position in ANY scheme, regardless of his size.

 

So yes, he could move to DE if we pick up a FA NT. I'd love to see us do that AND draft Dareus.

 

So our DL would look like:

 

Williams(Edwards)-Troupe(Rogers)-Carrington(Dareus)

 

Those 6 guys on a rotation would be unstoppable, IMO.

 

I really like Williams blue collar work ethic, but heck keep in mind that he has been a integral member of the leagues worst run defenses in the league for multiple years now. I thought after 2009, we could not get any worse against the run so why not try a 3-4. We were worse.

 

Williams is not a run stuffer, but more of a penetrator and as penetrators go, he's light years less effective than say Sapp, or Randle, or even Sam Adams was.

 

It almost sounds like I don't like Williams, I do, but I can't help from remembering many a run between him and Edwards, and him and Schobel the year before. Our LBs didn't help much, but I'd like to see him not getting pushed out of a hole a sight more often.

[DrDawkinstein]

I really like Williams blue collar work ethic, but heck keep in mind that he has been a integral member of the leagues worst run defenses in the league for multiple years now. I thought after 2009, we could not get any worse against the run so why not try a 3-4. We were worse.

 

Williams is not a run stuffer, but more of a penetrator and as penetrators go, he's light years less effective than say Sapp, or Randle, or even Sam Adams was.

 

It almost sounds like I don't like Williams, I do, but I can't help from remembering many a run between him and Edwards, and him and Schobel the year before. Our LBs didn't help much, but I'd like to see him not getting pushed out of a hole a sight more often.

 

 

Williams was the lone bright spot out of the 14 or so guys available to play the Front 7 positions.

 

Yes, he was part of a horrible run defense, but if everyone else was playing up to his level we would not have been nearly as bad. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Now, with regards to the bold, move him over to 3-4 DE which specifically plays into his penetrating talents, and get a big OLB outside of him and a Big NT inside of him, and we can improve the Defense.