Kelly the Dog Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Yes I did. Though I rather doubt you have read any of my posts. I did, of course, read your points. Sure, it's a two way street. The point is rather simple, however. If the Rich family wanted to keep all their manufacturing in Buffalo, just to keep people in Buffalo happy, where they would lose money, they wouldn't be able to expand as much. If you're looking at it as a two way street, which I was directly responding to your post, you take the good with the bad. The good was, they expanded all over and moved their production elsewhere (usually just buying existing plants and making them more efficient). That expansion left Buffalo will less manufacturing jobs but far more job all around. In the peak production years of 300 manufacturing job, Rich Products was still a relatively small company, just starting to spread its wings broadly. They wouldn't have had any need for 1000 or 600 Buffalo based World Headquarter jobs because they weren't operating in 31 countries like they are now. The huge worldwide expansion turned out to be good for Buffalo, not bad, even though they lost the manufacturing jobs. They are still investing in Buffalo and have added more jobs to Buffalo in the last several years than they have taken away. That is the two way street. If you want someone like Robert Rich to expand his company like he did AND keep the HQ in Buffalo AND keep the production in Buffalo even though it's a bad economic move for the company, that's asking a lot. Too much, IMO. If he just moved everything out and left Buffalo with nothing for greener pastures, I wouldn't like it one bit. Couldn't blame him but wouldn't like it.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I did, of course, read your points. Sure, it's a two way street. The point is rather simple, however. If the Rich family wanted to keep all their manufacturing in Buffalo, just to keep people in Buffalo happy, where they would lose money, they wouldn't be able to expand as much. If you're looking at it as a two way street, which I was directly responding to your post, you take the good with the bad. The good was, they expanded all over and moved their production elsewhere (usually just buying existing plants and making them more efficient). That expansion left Buffalo will less manufacturing jobs but far more job all around. In the peak production years of 300 manufacturing job, Rich Products was still a relatively small company, just starting to spread its wings broadly. They wouldn't have had any need for 1000 or 600 Buffalo based World Headquarter jobs because they weren't operating in 31 countries like they are now. The huge worldwide expansion turned out to be good for Buffalo, not bad, even though they lost the manufacturing jobs. They are still investing in Buffalo and have added more jobs to Buffalo in the last several years than they have taken away. That is the two way street. If you want someone like Robert Rich to expand his company like he did AND keep the HQ in Buffalo AND keep the production in Buffalo even though it's a bad economic move for the company, that's asking a lot. Too much, IMO. If he just moved everything out and left Buffalo with nothing for greener pastures, I wouldn't like it one bit. Couldn't blame him but wouldn't like it. Fair enough, and much what I had in mind when I responded to your initial, and very simplistic suggestion, complete with wallbash, that one could either praise the Rich family or call them jerks.
JohnC Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Didn't know Mr. Rich was worth that much. You would think he'd be all over a bid to buy the Bills when the time comes, although as I recall it several years ago he came up pretty small with the Major League baseball folks. If someone can correct my recollection of this, I'm all ears. HoustonBill, He was was a serious contender for a MLB expansion team. Buffalo was in contention with Miami, Denver and some other candidate cities. At the end of the process while Buffalo was still (supposedly) in contention for a team he, to the surprise of a lot of people, opted out. He stated that after crunching the $$$ numbers that it was financially not viable. He was right. There was no way that Buffalo could have competed not only due to the then MLB financial structure but also due to the rapidly escalating costs (player salaries) associated with that endeavor. Let me also add that I personally met a baseball owner (refuse to name) who told me a year in advance that Denver and Miami were going to be selected because they were new markets that the owners wanted to cultivate. As it turned out he was correct. The owner I spoke to is now out of the game. Edited February 8, 2011 by JohnC
seq004 Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 Didn't know Mr. Rich was worth that much. You would think he'd be all over a bid to buy the Bills when the time comes, although as I recall it several years ago he came up pretty small with the Major League baseball folks. If someone can correct my recollection of this, I'm all ears. Ditto. I didn't know Rich was worth that much either.
clearwater cadet Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 This goes back years, and years. From what I understand, Wilson and Rich don't care for each other at all. It was always rumored Rich will have liked to buy the team, but Wilson would never sell it to anyone, especially Rich while Wilson was alive. I don't know it Rich has anymore interest in WNY. As we all know being a Bills fan is something you never really choose, you kind of inhert it, and once you become it, you can never really let it go. So maybe he's still interested.
JohnC Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 This goes back years, and years. From what I understand, Wilson and Rich don't care for each other at all. It was always rumored Rich will have liked to buy the team, but Wilson would never sell it to anyone, especially Rich while Wilson was alive. I don't know it Rich has anymore interest in WNY. As we all know being a Bills fan is something you never really choose, you kind of inhert it, and once you become it, you can never really let it go. So maybe he's still interested. For some reason Ralph Wilson despised the idea of selling the naming rights to a stadium. At the time the stadium was built Erie County controlled the naming rights. Rich won the bid for the initial stadium naming rights. Thus the stadium was first called Rich Stadium Ralph was furious. He got so mad that he would not allow any Rich dairy products to be sold in the stadium. He went so far as to make sure that the coffee creamer was not one of Rich's products. Once either the naming contract expired or Rich desired to be let out of his contract for financial reasons (not really sure) the county had the name changed to Ralph Wilson Stadium. Now it doesn't matter because Ralph, although he doesn't officially own the stadium, he has control over the stadium. Needless to say the naming rights to the stadium won't be sold while he is alive because that is the way he wants it.
May Day 10 Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 I really enjoyed that article. Pretty awesome. Hopefully it keeps Mr Rich's interest and the Terriers benefit from their relationship. Im not sold on Rich buying any portion of the Bills. He had the opportunity to buy the Sabres at a bargain price, but never entered the equation. I played baseball with one of his sons (and met an adopted/pseudo son). They are great and very down to Earth and you would never guess they were from the kind of $ they are from. As far as MLB... it was between Buffalo, Denver, Miami, and New Orleans (I think). Rich pulled out at the last second for the economic reasons. The way baseball has gone, it was a wise move. I do recall Florida was a shoe-in and Buffalo had a pretty legitimate shot.
LabattBlue Posted February 8, 2011 Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) I still have nightmares of the news clip of Bob Rich at the owners meeting waving a blank check in front of the camera. As it turns out, it was a bad move by him(dropping out) as even the sisters of the poor(Royals, Pirates, etc...) make money year after year. Edited February 8, 2011 by LabattBlue
lets_go_bills Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 And they could rename the stadium The Rich!
ConradDobler Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 It actually was going to be COFFEE RICH Stadium at first. Named for the non-dairy creamer.
dave mcbride Posted February 9, 2011 Author Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) The most people they ever employed in the manufacturing side was about 300. That was during the 1980s. Because of their massive expansion throughout the US and overseas, they now employ 600 people in Buffalo at the Headquarters. It used to be 1000. What about all those families? Their expansion has made more jobs and put more money into Buffalo, not taken from it. http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article42474.ece I have not read the article (I will), but I'm confused -- it appears from what you say above that Rich now employs fewer people in the Buffalo region than in the past. Is that true? Regarding your other point, despite my innate leftism, I tend to believe in the law of comparative advantage, and low-end manufacturing is pretty much a loser's game for the US ... Edited February 9, 2011 by dave mcbride
Spiderweb Posted February 9, 2011 Posted February 9, 2011 Again, Kelly, that is terrific news for those who have jobs; not so nice for those that don't. The way I read your numbers, it looks like they used to employ ca. 1300 people in Buffalo, and now it is about 600. Is it that hard to see both sides? Being fair and balanced should mean something. Capitalism brings great benefits, and it has social costs as well. It makes no sense on any level to pretend that it is all benefits, or all costs. Fair and Balanced with the right means, "my way or the highway". They have a language all their own you know.....
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