Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) I wouldn't be opposed to them using it on him to make sure they retain him. The franchise amount in 2010 for an LB was $9.6 million, due to youth and stats Poz will probably sign a contract worth more than what Gary Brackett got last offseason, which was 5 years-$33 million but with a $12 million signing bonus. The $9.6 would actually save them money for next year and give them exclusive negotiating rights to ensure a long term deal. Also, I know it doesn't tell the whole story, but Poz had 52 more tackles than Harris last season while playing 2 less games with both in a 3-4 defense. Edited February 6, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 You know what it means most to me? This is why you have to draft well and keep your own players......no way we give up first round picks for David Harris......what we need to be doing is drafting OUR David Harris and then retain him. This is why you biuld through the draft because you dont know whats gonna happen in free agency. It's easier to draft and subsequently keep your own players when you have an actual general manager (of football I might add) running the show. Instead, the owner decided it was better for him to have an old hand that he knew. This went on for 4 seasons, encompassing several draft picks and free agency periods which produced almost nothing. Buddy Nix isn't off to all that great a start, but I have more faith in him than I do non-personnel people like Marv Levy and Mr. Smithers heading up the football side of the house. Too bad it's taken moves like this to demonstrate how far the Bills are behind in building a team to even be respectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I wouldn't be opposed to them using it on him to make sure they retain him. The franchise amount in 2010 for an LB was $9.6 million, due to youth and stats Poz will probably sign a contract worth more than what Gary Brackett got last offseason, which was 5 years-$33 million but with a $12 million signing bonus. The $9.6 would actually save them money for next year and give them exclusive negotiating rights to ensure a long term deal. Also, I know it doesn't tell the whole story, but Poz had 52 more tackles than Harris last season while playing 2 less games with both in a 3-4 defense. Tackles are the most useless stat when determining a players worth. Pox had 52 more tackles because the bills d was on the field more than the jets who produced far more three and outs. Also I'm sure if you looked at each tackle you'd find a large percentage of Pozs tackles were 8 yards downfield. Poz is an average (at best) LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 People get on Whitner because Marv drafted him at #8. The Poz draft giving up a pick to move up 9 spots was worse because we lost 2 high picks for.....Poz. Levy said on Sirius Radio that he turned down a trade down offer of a second AND another pick in 06 in order to draft Whitner. Sorry, but the Whitner pick was far worse imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 oy vey...A Poz thread. PP is not the worst thing at ILB, nor is he the best. The greater problem with the play of him is the front 3 / 4. Keep him around a few more years, get the blockers off of him, because I do not know any WLB's who can win a fight against a 300# OL. If you think there are better answers out there that will not set us back 2 or 3 years you are mistaken. We have a better chance to fill other needs and keep him for 2 to 3 years while we work on the DL, TE, etc. Nonetheless, if we let PP walk without a clear plan to replace him we are making a mistake. If we can resign him and move back to the 4-3 base D he will provide good depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Poz is best as a 4-3 OLB, IMO. He needs to work on his coverage skills, but his athletic ability, high "motor" and moderately good pass rushing skills would work well there. If the Bills are committed to a 3-4, then he probably needs to be eventually replaced with a bigger and more physical player. The Bills need to resign him anyway though because they don't have much at that position and need him for the next couple of years. Edited February 6, 2011 by vincec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I have to laugh at the gist of this thread. Was he drafted too high given his productivity? Perhaps. Would he start for practically every team in the NFL? Yes. People need to get over their small resentments regarding the Marv years. It's so over. He's a pretty solid player, and the Bills don't have enough of them. Jeez. Agree, McBride. There are several categories of players 1) stars. the guys who define their position in almost every category. troy polamolu. peyton manning. 2) playmakers. guys who would be top-performers for almost any team in the league. they can "do it all" at their position. 3) solid players. guys who get it done, and would likely start for most teams in the league. they can't do it all 4) up-and-comers. guys who get playing time, show flashes, and may become 1 - 3 with some more time, depending upon how hard they work and what their ceiling turns out to be 5) subpar players. guys who create "positional needs" 6) busts. guys who can't see the field, who wind up backing up rookies or UDFA. This is determined looking at the player's on-field performance in the NFL and has nothing to do with their draft position. What I read a lot on TBD is disgruntled fans who are disgusted with the Bills drafting over the last decade and evaluate players on-field performance against their position in the draft. According to this evaluation, a bunch of guys who are actually 3) and 4) are evaluated as 5) or 6) because they don't fulfill the expectations created by their draft position. In his 4 years, Poz has played about 2 1/2 seasons due to 2 broken arms. The talent around him has been very thin, meaning few role models for how one really has to train and prepare to be top-notch. Compare and contrast to Pittsburgh where coach Keith Butler was quoted in the NY Times as saying he usually gets comfortable with LB around the third year -- IN THE SAME SYSTEM. David Harris has been playing with 3 very solid veterans (some might say playmakers) in the same system for 4 years, and with a strong line in front of him. I would rank Poz in between 3) and 4). Most of the people who are dissing or dismissing him IMO A) are judging him by draft expectations, not his actual on-field performance 2) are missing the impact a mediocre to poor DL has on LB play 3) missing the impact of changing systems and missing games due to injury. The jokes that Posluzny is Polish for "made of glass" have some basis. The rest.... he's not the problem. Keep him and fix the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) Poz flat out cannot play middle linebacker in the NFL. He's pretty bad. It's one thing to make the pick. It's quite another to give up a high 3rd to move up 9 spots when both Poz and David Harris were on the board. Good teams have a board, understand the value of picks and make their trade decisions accordingly. Inept teams overpay in draft day trades and pigeon-hole themselves into drafting a single player. They did it the year before with McCargo and they did it yet again for Poz. There were a ton of reasons to avoid making that trade. 1) David Harris was a better prospect than Poz coming out of college. It's up to the paid talent evaluators to make this assessment. 2) Solid defensive players were available. David Harris, Justin Durant, and Lamaar Woodley were on the board, rendering a high priced trade all the more questionable. 3) The Bills let London Fletcher walk. In making that explicit decision, Marv and his croneys were claiming that Poz would be a better long-term solution than Fletcher at the all-important MLB position. They were dead wrong. As for Dave McBride's questioning of the original post's intent, I think it's perfectly legitimate to evaluate how this draft turned out 4 years later. It was bad. Very bad. And we can thank Marv Levy and Tom Modrak for that. Good thing they're gone... oh wait... Modrak still manages the draft board. Dawgg, you know I respect you, but come on. He's not a pretty bad player. He's no better or no worse than AJ Hawk (#5 overall!), and would start for practically every team in the NFL. He really, really would. Yet he's not as good as David Harris--I will grant you that. Harris is a very good player; Poz is decent (in fact, he was in the top three in stuffs--tackles at or behind the LOS--in 2009). As for your "four year" evaluation of the draft if I hadn't heard the same line at the end of the to 2008 season, or the 2009 season, or the midway and quarterpoints for all of these seasons, I would take your argument more seriously. You, sir, have a decidedly unhealthy obsession with the Levy drafts. Get over it -- it's just football. The Bills suck in any case, and will probably suck next year. At least try to enjoy the nice moments and the decent playing hard workers ( I know Whitner is a lost cause with you) given that you're condemned to be a Bills fan. Edited February 7, 2011 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) Levy said on Sirius Radio that he turned down a trade down offer of a second AND another pick in 06 in order to draft Whitner. Sorry, but the Whitner pick was far worse imo. Lets deal with the reality of our picks that we made and not the would have should have of could have been. As stated we lost two high picks for mediocre fan favorite. It's tough trying to measure the best of two bad picks. But we wasted 2 picks with Poz and only one with Whitner although it was a first rounder. Edited February 7, 2011 by VADC Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Levy said on Sirius Radio that he turned down a trade down offer of a second AND another pick in 06 in order to draft Whitner. Sorry, but the Whitner pick was far worse imo. Wasnt Denver supposedly trying to move up to draft Cutler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Poz is pedestrian at best. I just watched the Packer's back up, AJ Hawk play a whale of a game. Hawk would be a upgrade over Poz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 It's a good thing Marv Levy gave up a high 3rd round pick just to move up 9 spots in the second round to pick Poz when Harris was on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Wasnt Denver supposedly trying to move up to draft Cutler? Yes, as I recall. Levy said that there were numerous offers. Again, I heard this interview on Sirius after the draft. I don't have a link, and I don't blame you if you choose not to believe me, but I did hear Levy say this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 It's a good thing Marv Levy gave up a high 3rd round pick just to move up 9 spots in the second round to pick Poz when Harris was on the board. No I wouldn't franchise Poz, but I would resign him without a doubt. He wants to stay in Buffalo (why I don't know), and nobody is going to pay him the 9+ million I think it is for the franchise tag at LB. I think you could resign him for much less than the franchise amount and still keep him. Most websites that rank the free agents available have him in the top 10-15 out there from all the positions. He hasn't been great but if you let him go, who do you get to replace him? All you do is add another hole to this swiss cheese of a team, and you can only fill in so many holes at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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