truth on hold Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) How did Moss do with the Raiders, or his last 2 teams? What was missing...........? How many championships did Montana play for with Chiefs? What was missing ....... ? Edited February 6, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack
1B4IDie Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Sure think Bucs wish they would have taken Jerry Rice (16th) at #8 that year instead of DE Ron Holmes. And how's your #1 overall Mario Williams DE doing in the ring department, versus #25 pick that year Santonio Holmes? youtube.com/watch?v=24k3PCL4prU Rice #16 overall, 3 rings Holmes #25 overall, 1 ring and super bowl winning catch 2nd year in league Irvin #11 overall, 3 rings Swann #21 overall, 4 rings There are others. Seriously just go away, you're making a complete fool of yourself has less to do with the position and more to do with an impact player and the BPA. Im addressing the silly argument that highly drafted WRs dont win championships. Some more: Keyshawn Johnson #1 Torry Holt #6 Plaxico Burress #8 Marvin Harrison #19 Reggie Wayne #30 Javon Walker #20 may join the list tomorrow. Here is another completely irrelevant list: Doug Atkins #11 Carl Eller #5 Joe Greene #4 Dan Hamption #4 Bob Lilly #11 Leo Nomellini #13 Merlin Olsen #3 Alan Page #15 Lee Roy Selmon #1 Bruce Smith #1 Edited February 6, 2011 by Why So Serious?
truth on hold Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Here is another completely irrelevant list: Doug Atkins #11 Carl Eller #5 Joe Greene #4 Dan Hamption #4 Bob Lilly #11 Leo Nomellini #13 Merlin Olsen #3 Alan Page #15 Lee Roy Selmon #1 Bruce Smith #1 never dumped on highly drafted Dlinemen, or any other position. Again, read previous posts ... my point was to crush the notion that highly drafted WRs dont win championships
1B4IDie Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Just because Detroit picked WR in the first round for three straight years doesn't mean that in 2011, the Bills should pick a much lower ranked defensive player over AJ Green. I see no correlation. You're talking about two teams that regularly draft at the bottom of the round. Apples and oranges. When you're drafting in the top 3, and there's a huge discrepancy between the talent levels of two player like Green and Dareus (or another fill in the blank player), you either draft Green or prepare to look foolish and regret the decision for the next decade. The only discrepancy is of your understanding of AJ Green's rankings and where he really stacks up. There is no correlation between AJ Green being a possible HOF and realistic expectations. Some think Julio Jones may have the better NFL career. If you want to talk rings Julio Jones already has a SEC championship and a BCS championship ring. Just found this thought it was interesting: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Tale-of-the-Tape-A-J-Green-vs-Julio-Jones-th?urn=ncaaf-257892 The real trade down opp happens when AJ Green goes off the board. The next WR is Jon Baldwin (who I actually like he is more of a beast like Andre Johnson) and Wanstache knows him well. But there is still a significant drop off after Julio Jones. So I teal that wants a WR might make a trade if they don't think Jones will last. Edited February 6, 2011 by Why So Serious?
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Aj Green is great. i am a UGA fan. But even after they got him back UGA struggled. If anything go to where he played college and see what happened to a struggling team when he arrived. They still struggled. I am talking about this year. He missed the first 4 games. UGA was 1-3. They ended the year 6-7. And that was college. You think he gonna make a big difference on a 4-12 team with a bad d front 7, and a career back up qb? Edited February 6, 2011 by atlbillsfan1975
1B4IDie Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 never dumped on highly drafted Dlinemen, or any other position. Again, read previous posts ... my point was to crush the notion that highly drafted WRs dont win championships My bad.
truth on hold Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 My bad. no worries. serious question though: the year Rice was drafted #16 overall, Bruce Smith went #1 overall. Did Bills make a mistake taking Smith over Rice?
Mr. WEO Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 How many championships did Montana play for with Chiefs? What was missing ....... ? A franchise QB.
1B4IDie Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) no worries. serious question though: the year Rice was drafted #16 overall, Bruce Smith went #1 overall. Did Bills make a mistake taking Smith over Rice? Not at all. With out Bruce Smith there are no 4 Super Bowls. Jim Kelly spread the ball around too much. Thats why Stevie Johnson almost broke the TD record of 11 TDs last season. Bruce Smith is without question the greatest 3-4 DE in NFL history. The #2 isn't even close. A 3-4 DE isn't supposed to get sacks. (Reggie White, or almost anyone else you are thinking of played a 4-3 for most of their career) A WR is supposed to get TDs and Recs. Jerry Rice was the greatest WR of all time, but the drop off to Andre Reed a top 20 WR of all time wasn't as big a cavern as the next best 3-4 DE. (And as an aside there aren't any mountains to run up in the Buffalo area. That mountain running gave Jerry the edge in the 4th QTR I'm sure Jerry would have found something else to give him an edge or maybe not) Edited February 6, 2011 by Why So Serious?
Simon Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 versus #25 pick that year Santonio Holmes? And how many Super Bowl squads has 1st round pick Santonio Holmes played on in comparison to 1st round draft picks Casey Hampton, Lamarr Woodley, Ziggy Hood, James Farrior, Lawrence Timmons and Troy Polamalu?
NoSaint Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) has less to do with the position and more to do with an impact player and the BPA. Im addressing the silly argument that highly drafted WRs dont win championships. Some more: Keyshawn Johnson #1 Torry Holt #6 Plaxico Burress #8 Marvin Harrison #19 Reggie Wayne #30 Javon Walker #20 may join the list tomorrow. I guess my argument is a good qb can take over a game, a good DE can take over a good, it's hard for a WR to do the same without a lot more help. My point that most were last half of round one, were not with there first team or were pre free agency was that they rarely were on teams that didn't already have a foundation, or one that had time to build that core. I'm not saying green couldn't help, who knows - maybe an explosive WR is that magic we need to open everything up. I advocate bpa as well, and think he is a huge talent, I just don't know if WR can provide the same impact as a great DE could give us. Like I said, wouldn't be mad, just saying a top 5 WR hasn't been the path to getting into the playoffs. Hitting on an QB, LT or DE seems to be a quicker jump. Torry holt is really the only good example and they had pace, little, and lucked into Warner. Edited February 6, 2011 by NoSaint
CookieG Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Rice #16 overall, 3 rings Holmes #25 overall, 1 ring and super bowl winning catch 2nd year in league Irvin #11 overall, 3 rings Swann #21 overall, 4 rings There are others. Seriously just go away, you're making a complete fool of yourself 2 of the 4 listed (Rice and Holmes) went to the defending SB champion the year they were drafted. San Fransisco had won 2 SB's in the 80's before Rice was drafted in 85. The Steelers won a SB in Swann's rookie year, when he accumulated 200 yards in receptions. Would the 49er's have won a SB without Rice? Well yeah, they did. Twice. Would the Steelers have won a SB without Holmes? Well yeah, they did. That doesn't disparage any of those mentioned, and 2 of the 4 (Rice and Swann) are 2 of my all time favorites. But to pretend that drafting them was the reason their teams went to the SB isn't factually correct.
NoSaint Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) 2 of the 4 listed (Rice and Holmes) went to the defending SB champion the year they were drafted. San Fransisco had won 2 SB's in the 80's before Rice was drafted in 85. The Steelers won a SB in Swann's rookie year, when he accumulated 200 yards in receptions. Would the 49er's have won a SB without Rice? Well yeah, they did. Twice. Would the Steelers have won a SB without Holmes? Well yeah, they did. That doesn't disparage any of those mentioned, and 2 of the 4 (Rice and Swann) are 2 of my all time favorites. But to pretend that drafting them was the reason their teams went to the SB isn't factually correct. Not to mention Keyshawn and plax did it with a different team then the one that drafted them. Frankly, it's a shockingly short list even with these guys included. Edited February 6, 2011 by NoSaint
reddogblitz Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 I could support taking Green at #3 if we just didn't have the worst defense in the whole NFL. :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:
Orton's Arm Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 I just watched a good video about the Steelers/Ravens playoff game. For the most part the video focused on the flaws of Baltimore's offensive play calling in the second half. But toward the end, they mentioned how the strength of the Steelers' receiving corps was pivotal to winning that game. They seemed to feel Baltimore's receiving corps was not nearly as good; a fact which harmed its offensive efforts in the second half. I personally feel good receivers can be a very important part of a good offensive unit. Think of how much the Cowboys' offense of the '90s would have been harmed had Michael Irvin been lost. Or what the Bills' Super Bowl era offenses would have lost if they hadn't had Andre Reed. Or what the Cardinals' Warner-era offense would have been like without Larry Fitzgerald. If you can force the other team into double coverage, you're taking away a lot of that defensive coordinator's freedom of action. Think of all the ways that extra defensive player could have been used if the defensive coordinator hadn't been forced into double coverage! With an elite WR, you're getting the benefit of his production and the benefit of a defender being used up in double coverage. That's why it's so nice to have an elite go-to guy. Of course, to maximize that benefit you need a good QB who can get him the ball, and a good OL which can give him the time he needs to get open. Toward that end, the Bills could justify taking Green in the first, Ponder in the second, and a RT in the third. Then their two fourth round picks could be used on LBs. I'm not wedded to the idea of the above draft, and I'd be perfectly willing to go in a different direction with the Bills first round pick if they had some other player more highly rated than Green. But if Green is the best player available, they shouldn't dismiss the idea of drafting him just because he's a WR.
ajzepp Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Javon Walker #20 may join the list tomorrow. The Vikes made the SB?
Bill from NYC Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 What dilemna? You thank your lucky stars the BPA in the entire draft is still available. Then run up to the mic and announce you're taking Green before Carolina or Denver get a chance to say their pick was wrongly entered and they really selected Green. Very good post! Doing the above sure worked with Spiller!!! We are winning so many games with this wonderful philosophy, why stop now?
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 I guess because Spiller worked out so well as a playmaker then Green is given....
1billsfan Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 The only discrepancy is of your understanding of AJ Green's rankings and where he really stacks up. There is no correlation between AJ Green being a possible HOF and realistic expectations. Some think Julio Jones may have the better NFL career. If you want to talk rings Julio Jones already has a SEC championship and a BCS championship ring. Just found this thought it was interesting: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Tale-of-the-Tape-A-J-Green-vs-Julio-Jones-th?urn=ncaaf-257892 The real trade down opp happens when AJ Green goes off the board. The next WR is Jon Baldwin (who I actually like he is more of a beast like Andre Johnson) and Wanstache knows him well. But there is still a significant drop off after Julio Jones. So I teal that wants a WR might make a trade if they don't think Jones will last. It's Green by a knockout! I looked at video of both players and Jones isn't even close to the player that Green is. Green is a day one starting #1 receiver in the NFL (who has a good chance of becoming elite in his first season), Jones is a #2 NFL receiver who will take some time to even earn his starting job. AJ Green http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1632070 "Hands: Unquestionably his best attribute. Long arms, big, soft hands and excellent body control to contort and make the highlight-reel catch, including seemingly impossible one-handed grabs. Rarely allows the ball into his pads, snatching the ball out of the air and securing it quickly when he is anticipating taking a bit hit. Has proven the ability to absorb a pop and maintain control." Julio Jones http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1623794 "Hands: Inconsistent. Drops too many passes due to a lack of concentration - usually when he's trying to make a defender miss before wrapping the ball up securely. Isn't a consistent "hands" catcher and allows too many passes into his pads, resulting in drops. Flashes the ability to extend and make the highlight-reel reception. Willing to run routes across the middle and take a big hit to make the catch." I'd be very surprised if there weren't a few teams wanting to trade into our spot if Green is still there. Green falling is the Bills lottery ticket. However, if the trade offers are lowball offers then the Bills should pick Green and draft heavy on defense with the rest of their picks. Remember, the second rounder will be first round immediate starter quality. I could see where if we get Green, a good starting ILB and a decent DE, and Merriman comes back to form, the Bills being a contender for the AFC East title.
Bill from NYC Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 I could see where if we get Green, a good starting ILB and a decent DE, and Merriman comes back to form, the Bills being a contender for the AFC East title. Do ya think we need much better blocking and an NFL level TE? Maybe not.....perhaps Green is all we need to seal the deal!
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