Justice Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 An argument can be made in each direction of this debate of physical freak vs high motor guy/intelligent athletes. Both of these types of athletes had their fair share of busts, but I'd take the physical freak any day of the week over the high motor/intelligent types. When I look at our defense as a whole, I don't really see anyone that looks like a beast. Poz is pretty big, but he isn't a physical specimen. The guy is very stiff and lacks speed. I hope the Bills go after someone that looks and plays the part. You can teach a guy how to play football, but you can never take a guy that lacks physical tools and give him that. Let's take a look at the our recent draft history of first and second rounders and see if any of these guys fit the mold of a "Goliath". 2010 Spiller: Nope. Small guy that plays small. Troup: average size DT. Nothing special about his size/speed. 2009 Maybin: Does the stick man ring a bell? Wood: See Troup Byrd: Small, not fast at all. Levitre: Moved from his college position to guard because he lacked the ideal size. 2008 McKelvin: Ideal size and speed. I still have hope for Leodis. Hardy: Physical freak with good speed. How much did his injuries affect him? 2007 Lynch: Nothing special Poz: same as Lynch. Too slow, as well. 2006 Whitner: Small McCargo: See Troup. 2005 Parrish: Smurf comes to mind. As you can see, the Bills have focused on smaller players in the draft, as of late, and it has cost us dearly. Hopefully, the Bills won't make these same types of mistakes in the upcoming draft and use our premium picks on intimidating, mean-looking sons of b*^$%^s, instaed of the smurfs we've been getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafter Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 You should cite ESPN when you steal their content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Have you ever seen Alex Carrington in person? He is a mammoth individual, and I believe with the proper coaching he is gonna be a very good 3-4 end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffHead Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Have you ever seen Alex Carrington in person? He is a mammoth individual, and I believe with the proper coaching he is gonna be a very good 3-4 end. agreed, he was a jaw dropper at training camp. Billy Fucillo HUGEEEE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 An argument can be made in each direction of this debate of physical freak vs high motor guy/intelligent athletes. Both of these types of athletes had their fair share of busts, but I'd take the physical freak any day of the week over the high motor/intelligent types. When I look at our defense as a whole, I don't really see anyone that looks like a beast. Poz is pretty big, but he isn't a physical specimen. The guy is very stiff and lacks speed. I hope the Bills go after someone that looks and plays the part. You can teach a guy how to play football, but you can never take a guy that lacks physical tools and give him that. Well, opinions will vary. Me, I would say a certain base of physical traits is needed to make a football player. After that, what separates the stars from the duds, it seems to me, are the traits you ostensibly dis: intelligence, and the will to work hard and excel (high motor). Football at the NFL level is a chess game as well as a physical battle. If you have a guy who is strong as an ox and just as dumb, he is seldom going to be in the right place at the right time to use those physical skills to their advantage. If you have a QB who can't process what he's seeing and draw the right solution out of the playbook, he's going to stand in the pocket, well, like Trent Edwards or JP Losman. Do you seriously want to argue that Maybin and McCargo would be football stars if they were only.....bigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 An argument can be made in each direction of this debate of physical freak vs high motor guy/intelligent athletes. Both of these types of athletes had their fair share of busts, but I'd take the physical freak any day of the week over the high motor/intelligent types. When I look at our defense as a whole, I don't really see anyone that looks like a beast. Poz is pretty big, but he isn't a physical specimen. The guy is very stiff and lacks speed. I hope the Bills go after someone that looks and plays the part. You can teach a guy how to play football, but you can never take a guy that lacks physical tools and give him that. Let's take a look at the our recent draft history of first and second rounders and see if any of these guys fit the mold of a "Goliath". 2010 Spiller: Nope. Small guy that plays small. Troup: average size DT. Nothing special about his size/speed. 2009 Maybin: Does the stick man ring a bell? Wood: See Troup Byrd: Small, not fast at all. Levitre: Moved from his college position to guard because he lacked the ideal size. 2008 McKelvin: Ideal size and speed. I still have hope for Leodis. Hardy: Physical freak with good speed. How much did his injuries affect him? 2007 Lynch: Nothing special Poz: same as Lynch. Too slow, as well. 2006 Whitner: Small McCargo: See Troup. 2005 Parrish: Smurf comes to mind. As you can see, the Bills have focused on smaller players in the draft, as of late, and it has cost us dearly. Hopefully, the Bills won't make these same types of mistakes in the upcoming draft and use our premium picks on intimidating, mean-looking sons of b*^$%^s, instaed of the smurfs we've been getting. hardy?? physical freak??..he caught like a girl..a tall girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 You should cite ESPN when you steal their content. I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't steal any content from anyone. Well, opinions will vary. Me, I would say a certain base of physical traits is needed to make a football player. After that, what separates the stars from the duds, it seems to me, are the traits you ostensibly dis: intelligence, and the will to work hard and excel (high motor). Football at the NFL level is a chess game as well as a physical battle. If you have a guy who is strong as an ox and just as dumb, he is seldom going to be in the right place at the right time to use those physical skills to their advantage. If you have a QB who can't process what he's seeing and draw the right solution out of the playbook, he's going to stand in the pocket, well, like Trent Edwards or JP Losman. Do you seriously want to argue that Maybin and McCargo would be football stars if they were only.....bigger? That wasn't my point. We drafted Maybin and he was undersized. With our first round picks we should draft players that have the ideal size, already. We can use later round picks for project players. Besides, a little more size couldn't hurt Aaron's chances of being a better player, could it? hardy?? physical freak??..he caught like a girl..a tall girl James Hardy was 6'5" 220lbs and ran the forty in about 4.4 seconds. Yeah, I'd call him a physical freak,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 That wasn't my point. We drafted Maybin and he was undersized. With our first round picks we should draft players that have the ideal size, already. We can use later round picks for project players. I agree that top round draft choices should not be project players. Physical attributes are only one part of what make a player "NFL ready": understanding of the game, love of the game, coachability, and willingness to work incredibly hard are also needed. Other things being equal, give me a big tall guy with fantastic technique and a "football mind", perhaps that's your point? But other things often aren't equal. The hall of fame is full of players whose "just enough" physical gifts, plus great understanding of the game in addition to drive and will to succeed and improve lifted them past players who had the "look you want in an NFL QB" or "the right size to play nose tackle" Besides, a little more size couldn't hurt Aaron's chances of being a better player, could it? Do you truly think it would help or make the difference? Shawn Merriman interview: "Maybin....has to learn to play football". Everything else I've read seems to indicate his problem isn't the physical skills and size he has, it's figuring out how to use them effectively. The football field is littered with big tall guys who eat dirt at the hands of smaller guys with better technique. It's why I'm opposed to drafting any player who only has a 1 or even 2 year track record. We don't get to see if they seem to have a trajectory and a work ethic, if they can get past the point where the opposing coaches have film on them and are game-planning against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I'd call Spiller, Parrish and Maybin "freaks" as well. You don't have to be big to be a physical specimen. You just have to do something physically well to the point of abnormality. Spiller and Parrish are damned fast and Maybin is very quick for a guy of his size (yes, even if he's small for his position). That being said, in all three's cases, speed doesn't mean everything in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I'd call Spiller, Parrish and Maybin "freaks" as well. You don't have to be big to be a physical specimen. You just have to do something physically well to the point of abnormality. Spiller and Parrish are damned fast and Maybin is very quick for a guy of his size (yes, even if he's small for his position). That being said, in all three's cases, speed doesn't mean everything in the NFL. Ex-act-a-mundo. Same goes for sheer size or strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 An argument can be made in each direction of this debate of physical freak vs high motor guy/intelligent athletes. Both of these types of athletes had their fair share of busts, but I'd take the physical freak any day of the week over the high motor/intelligent types. When I look at our defense as a whole, I don't really see anyone that looks like a beast. Poz is pretty big, but he isn't a physical specimen. The guy is very stiff and lacks speed. I hope the Bills go after someone that looks and plays the part. You can teach a guy how to play football, but you can never take a guy that lacks physical tools and give him that. Let's take a look at the our recent draft history of first and second rounders and see if any of these guys fit the mold of a "Goliath". 2010 Spiller: Nope. Small guy that plays small. Troup: average size DT. Nothing special about his size/speed. 2009 Maybin: Does the stick man ring a bell? Wood: See Troup Byrd: Small, not fast at all. Levitre: Moved from his college position to guard because he lacked the ideal size. 2008 McKelvin: Ideal size and speed. I still have hope for Leodis. Hardy: Physical freak with good speed. How much did his injuries affect him? 2007 Lynch: Nothing special Poz: same as Lynch. Too slow, as well. 2006 Whitner: Small McCargo: See Troup. 2005 Parrish: Smurf comes to mind. As you can see, the Bills have focused on smaller players in the draft, as of late, and it has cost us dearly. Hopefully, the Bills won't make these same types of mistakes in the upcoming draft and use our premium picks on intimidating, mean-looking sons of b*^$%^s, instaed of the smurfs we've been getting. Since you are talking about all high round draft picks the answer is simple!!! Both, if you picking a top player in college football they should be a physical freak AND high motor guy with intelligence. Once you get to the lower rounds in the draft a compromise needs to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) Ex-act-a-mundo. Same goes for sheer size or strength. But when you have the opportunity to draft #3 overall. You must take a player that has NFL Size, Speed, and Football IQ, There is no need to compromise on size and draft a player that isn't already cut from an NFL cloth. We are talking about the 3rd best college player in all of the college football players that declared for the draft. Get the size and motor and football IQ in one package. No matter how unimportant you deem size to be, there are literally not that many Human beings on the planent that are 6'2"+ 290+ that are fast, quick, strong, and smart. If you have a chance to draft one of these rare humans you have to take them. Nick Fairely and Marcell Dareaus are two examples of the type of player you can get if you draft both motor and size. That is an immediate impact. Edited February 5, 2011 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Levitre: Moved from his college position to guard because he lacked the ideal size. If you ragged on every guy who has his position changed position from where he played in college ball, you'd be knocking a LOT of guys. Levitre wasn't drafted to be a T (and yet, in a pinch the last couple of games last season, iirc, he wasn't horrible at tackle). Many NFL LBs were DEs in college. BTW, Wood isn't a DT, and I'm sorry to burst your balloon, but he's a big boy who carries himself well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 An argument can be made in each direction of this debate of physical freak vs high motor guy/intelligent athletes. Both of these types of athletes had their fair share of busts, but I'd take the physical freak any day of the week over the high motor/intelligent types. When I look at our defense as a whole, I don't really see anyone that looks like a beast. Poz is pretty big, but he isn't a physical specimen. The guy is very stiff and lacks speed. I hope the Bills go after someone that looks and plays the part. You can teach a guy how to play football, but you can never take a guy that lacks physical tools and give him that. Let's take a look at the our recent draft history of first and second rounders and see if any of these guys fit the mold of a "Goliath". 2010 Spiller: Nope. Small guy that plays small. Troup: average size DT. Nothing special about his size/speed. 2009 Maybin: Does the stick man ring a bell? Wood: See Troup Byrd: Small, not fast at all. Levitre: Moved from his college position to guard because he lacked the ideal size. 2008 McKelvin: Ideal size and speed. I still have hope for Leodis. Hardy: Physical freak with good speed. How much did his injuries affect him? 2007 Lynch: Nothing special Poz: same as Lynch. Too slow, as well. 2006 Whitner: Small McCargo: See Troup. 2005 Parrish: Smurf comes to mind. As you can see, the Bills have focused on smaller players in the draft, as of late, and it has cost us dearly. Hopefully, the Bills won't make these same types of mistakes in the upcoming draft and use our premium picks on intimidating, mean-looking sons of b*^$%^s, instaed of the smurfs we've been getting. Are we comparing adjectives or players when judging draft prospects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 But when you have the opportunity to draft #3 overall. You must take a player that has NFL Size, Speed, and Football IQ, There is no need to compromise on size and draft a player that isn't already cut from an NFL cloth. We are talking about the 3rd best college player in all of the college football players that declared for the draft. Get the size and motor and football IQ in one package. No matter how unimportant you deem size to be, there are literally not that many Human beings on the planent that are 6'2"+ 290+ that are fast, quick, strong, and smart. If you have a chance to draft one of these rare humans you have to take them. Nick Fairely and Marcell Dareaus are two examples of the type of player you can get if you draft both motor and size. That is an immediate impact. We have a winner! This is the point I was trying to make, WSS just worded it better than I did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 No matter how unimportant you deem size to be Um, are you talking to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Who cares as long as they can play like football players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafter Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't steal any content from anyone. I know you didn't. I was just having fun with your scientific analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) We have a winner! This is the point I was trying to make, WSS just worded it better than I did! Dude, as the OP, let me recap what you said: [begin quote] I'd take the physical freak any day of the week over the high motor/intelligent types. When I look at our defense as a whole, I don't really see anyone that looks like a beast. Poz is pretty big, but he isn't a physical specimen. The guy is very stiff and lacks speed. I hope the Bills go after someone that looks and plays the part. You can teach a guy how to play football, but you can never take a guy that lacks physical tools and give him that. [end quote] Please excuse us for being confused, but I'm finding it hard to interpret what you wrote as equivalent to WSS point at #3 "you must take a guy who has speed size AND football IQ" "Get the size and motor and football IQ in one package." Which is pretty much, to my view, what a bunch of us said in response to you. They are all important: Artmalibu: "Since you are talking about all high round draft picks the answer is simple!!! Both, if you picking a top player in college football they should be a physical freak AND high motor guy with intelligence." Me (hopeful): "Other things being equal, give me a big tall guy with fantastic technique and a 'football mind' " etc etc. Now if you weren't trying to argue that taking a "physical freak" is more important than taking a guy who knows how to play football, but rather were trying to say that in the top rounds we should hold out for "the whole package" or nothing doing - apologies and I absolutely agree. It certainly looked from here as though you were trying to say the "physical freak" is all that is important, and I do disagree with that viewpoint. If Maybin were bigger, heavier, and had his current football knowledge and technique, I think he'd just be a big, strong, tall bust instead of an undersized bust. Edited February 5, 2011 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) Um, are you talking to me? Are you talking to me? Are YOU talking to me? You must be talking to me, because I don't see anyone else . . . No, not directed at you in particular. Maybe, "someone deems" would be the proper term instead of "you". Edited February 5, 2011 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts