Do we really care if the Muslims take over Egypt?

[chicot]

I think we should give North America back to the Indians or maybe split power in both houses with them. Their customs are eggzactery like ours!!. I think it could work!!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the Indians have the right to become full and equal citizens of the US?

 

Likewise, I think Israel shoud have the right to strike any such nation when their security is threatened without interference.

 

Yes, they should have the same right of self defence that any other nation has.

[3rdnlng]

I don't intend to. I dont think any Arab nation should normalize relations with Israel or have peace treaties with them until there is a fair resolution to the Palestinian plight.

 

Sounds very Canadianesque.

[whateverdude]

Ragheads, kikes, spooks, honkies, canucks, micks, krauts, dagos, redskins, spics...I hate 'em all equally.

 

 

 

1) Hate won't keep me safe.

2) Since I suspect your definition of "radical islamist" is "someone who wants to kill me" anyway, your statement is silly.

3) Most radical islamists who espouse any sort of hatred for me are engaged in little more than rhetoric...of the kind akin to putting crosshairs over the democratic districts of a US map. So please, can someone tell if there's a consistent standard for establishing the kind of rhetoric we are and aren't supposed to fear?

You assume too much. Fear, killing, these are your words and very telling. Most people who espouse any sort of hatred for me are engaged in little more than rhetoric but this does not mean I keep my doors unlocked at night.

Edited February 3, 2011 by whateverdude

[GG]

Not in the least. I would like to see the end of the current Israeli state and it's replacement with a bi-national state in which the rights of all it's citizens (both Jewish and Arab) would be guaranteed. I believe that both Israelis and Palestinians have an equal right to the land of Israel/Palestine and thus it should be shared by them both. That does not mean that I wish all Israelis to be killed.

 

So if I understand you correctly, it's wrong for a nation to self determine that it wants to be a Jewish state and it should open its borders to those who wish to eliminate it, because it's the right thing to do?

 

Since there's likely trepidation on the Israeli Jews' part about the Arab world's intentions if the Palestinians actually gain the right of full return to Israel proper, let's have the Arab world extend an olive branch and open up an Arab country to returning Jews & Christians and see how that works out.

[RkFast]

BOO!!! Scary muzzie around the corner! BOO!!!

 

 

 

Conversely, I always knew you were this stupid. You're really saying that because I saw five guys fly a plane into a building, I should hate all Islamists.

 

 

Thats wasnt the issue or the question.

 

YOU stated that American's fear of Islamists is based on false propaganda and is baseless.

 

I'm challenging you on that.

 

So the question is....Do you think that American's fear of Islamists is baseless?

 

3) Most radical islamists who espouse any sort of hatred for me are engaged in little more than rhetoric...of the kind akin to putting crosshairs over the democratic districts of a US map. So please, can someone tell if there's a consistent standard for establishing the kind of rhetoric we are and aren't supposed to fear?

 

The rhetoric which leads to widespread violence and the killing of thousands?

Edited February 3, 2011 by RkFast

[Jim in Anchorage]

Thats wasnt the issue or the question.

 

YOU stated that American's fear of Islamists is based on false propaganda and is baseless.

 

I'm challenging you on that.

 

So the question is....Do you think that American's fear of Islamists is baseless?

Tom's a bit hung up on the Nazi comparisons. I can't recall a single instance of Jewish terrorism against Germany. Really a poor analogy.

[DC Tom]

Thats wasnt the issue or the question.

 

YOU stated that American's fear of Islamists is based on false propaganda and is baseless.

 

I'm challenging you on that.

 

I didn't say that. You're challenging me on something I didn't say?

 

So the question is....Do you think that American's fear of Islamists is baseless?

 

Also not what I said. But since you asked...BOO!!!!! Scary sand !@#$s taking over our ports! BOO!!!!

 

The rhetoric which leads to widespread violence and the killing of thousands?

 

And Rep. Gifford's. Don't forget about her.

[Jim in Anchorage]

I was wondering why you were even bothering to this point.

 

It's not a PPP thing, either...it's an American thing. Most Americans have an image of "islamist" similar to the caricatures the Nazis used to publish about the Jews - the omnipresent hook-nosed boogeyman skulking in dark corners waiting to steal innocent children.

 

 

Thats wasnt the issue or the question.

 

YOU stated that American's fear of Islamists is based on false propaganda and is baseless.

 

I'm challenging you on that.

 

So the question is....Do you think that American's fear of Islamists is baseless?

 

 

 

The rhetoric which leads to widespread violence and the killing of thousands?

 

 

I didn't say that. You're challenging me on something I didn't say?

 

 

 

 

I think your post could be interpreted as saying that, yes.

[chicot]

So if I understand you correctly, it's wrong for a nation to self determine that it wants to be a Jewish state and it should open its borders to those who wish to eliminate it, because it's the right thing to do?

 

Since there's likely trepidation on the Israeli Jews' part about the Arab world's intentions if the Palestinians actually gain the right of full return to Israel proper, let's have the Arab world extend an olive branch and open up an Arab country to returning Jews & Christians and see how that works out.

 

Maybe they wouldn't want to eliminate it if they were allowed to live in it as equal citizens. It's quite hard to look kindly upon a nation whose creation caused you to lose everything and whose laws forbid you to return on the grounds that you are of the wrong ethnic group.

 

As I have always said, the right of return whether based on actual return or financial compensation should apply equally to Palestinians forced to leave Palestine and Jews forced to leave Arab nations.

 

BTW what do you think of the goings on in Egypt? Are you in favour of democracy in Egypt, no matter what form of government they choose or would you prefer a friendly dictator?

[....lybob]

RK is the John Bolton to Tom's Pat Buchanan, really Tom you should pay RK for making you seem like a reasonable person.

 

 

On another note I wonder if (other than Tom) anyone on this board knows what percentage of the Jews in Israel are Semitic,or have any ancestry from the holy land,- or any belief in any type of God.

[whateverdude]

Maybe they wouldn't want to eliminate it if they were allowed to live in it as equal citizens. It's quite hard to look kindly upon a nation whose creation caused you to lose everything and whose laws forbid you to return on the grounds that you are of the wrong ethnic group.

 

As I have always said, the right of return whether based on actual return or financial compensation should apply equally to Palestinians forced to leave Palestine and Jews forced to leave Arab nations.

 

BTW what do you think of the goings on in Egypt? Are you in favour of democracy in Egypt, no matter what form of government they choose or would you prefer a friendly dictator?

If it wasn't for oil nobody but people in the middle east would care about the middle east, except for maybe a few peace-nix hippie do-gooders.

 

I just as soon get off oil as soon as possible and leave the middle east to the arabs and their coconut shell battery chargers, bamboo telescopes, bamboo xylophones, bamboo sewing machines, "electric" razor made from a clam shell, vibrating from a honey-bee inside, "automatic" windows and doors powered by monkeys on the outside, and cars made out of stone, wood, and animal skins powered by the passengers' feet.

Edited February 3, 2011 by whateverdude

[GG]

Maybe they wouldn't want to eliminate it if they were allowed to live in it as equal citizens. It's quite hard to look kindly upon a nation whose creation caused you to lose everything and whose laws forbid you to return on the grounds that you are of the wrong ethnic group.

 

As I have always said, the right of return whether based on actual return or financial compensation should apply equally to Palestinians forced to leave Palestine and Jews forced to leave Arab nations.

Are you talking about Palestinians or the kurds? Can't keep the two straight.

 

But that's the beauty of the argument about Israel. Polite society wants to ignore that they live among a backward societies, and expect them to behave as if they're having tea with the Queen. But that cannot happen - so it's either wait for the arab world to join the modern age, or have Israel descend into middle ages. You cannot strike a bargain with a party that lives in a different world.

 

 

BTW what do you think of the goings on in Egypt? Are you in favour of democracy in Egypt, no matter what form of government they choose or would you prefer a friendly dictator?

 

I think people get caught up in the democracy word But without the proper institutions and laws, there's no difference from a mob rule, and that's where this is heading. There's absolutely no reason to wish Mubarak to stay. There's even a worse reason to wish him leave prematurely.

[chicot]

Are you talking about Palestinians or the kurds? Can't keep the two straight.

 

But that's the beauty of the argument about Israel. Polite society wants to ignore that they live among a backward societies, and expect them to behave as if they're having tea with the Queen. But that cannot happen - so it's either wait for the arab world to join the modern age, or have Israel descend into middle ages. You cannot strike a bargain with a party that lives in a different world.

 

 

 

I think people get caught up in the democracy word But without the proper institutions and laws, there's no difference from a mob rule, and that's where this is heading. There's absolutely no reason to wish Mubarak to stay. There's even a worse reason to wish him leave prematurely.

 

Revolutions are seldom neat and tidy. You chide the arab world about being "backwards" and want them to join the modern age and yet when they try to do so, you get nervous. The demonstrations in Egypt were quite peaceful until Mubarak decided to send his goons into action. Institutions and laws do not just come into being - they need to be created. Getting rid of a corrupt dictator is a first step on the road to doing that.

[Wacka]

Israel offered the Arabs ("palesteinians" is made up recently) the same rights when it was formed. They wanted it all, so Israel told the to get out if they didn't like it. Jordan wised up to these a-holes and kicked them out too. Syria is hiding behind them to constantly shell Israel. When ISrael retaliates to protect itself, it gets lambasted for "attacking".

[GG]

Revolutions are seldom neat and tidy. You chide the arab world about being "backwards" and want them to join the modern age and yet when they try to do so, you get nervous. The demonstrations in Egypt were quite peaceful until Mubarak decided to send his goons into action. Institutions and laws do not just come into being - they need to be created. Getting rid of a corrupt dictator is a first step on the road to doing that.

 

Revolutions are messy, and often they produce worse outcomes. The only reason I get nervous is that Mubarak created this mess precisely for this reason. His ace in the hole is knowing that West will not force him to stand down, because the west fears the alternative. Meanwhile from the Egyptian side, his ushered disposal will surely tank an already fragile economy because his cronies are still in control of many things.

 

Wishing for him to go away sooner than a semblance of a rational replacement process is put in place is like screaming to fire Greggo only to land Mularkey.

 

He has to go, and he will go, just not today or next week, but definitely before September.

[KD in CA]

Revolutions are seldom neat and tidy. You chide the arab world about being "backwards" and want them to join the modern age and yet when they try to do so, you get nervous. The demonstrations in Egypt were quite peaceful until Mubarak decided to send his goons into action. Institutions and laws do not just come into being - they need to be created. Getting rid of a corrupt dictator is a first step on the road to doing that.

 

And it won't be easy. Nassar's lust for power stifled democracy for the next 60 years and his misguided economic policies of consolidating wealth in the government had the predictable results: destruction of those necessary institutions, a bloated, corrupt, unresponsive gov't, increased poverty, and the impetus for millions of educated Egyptians to seek greener pastures in the West.

 

Lets hope the new revolutionaries don't repeat those mistakes.

[Jim in Anchorage]

And it won't be easy. Nassar's lust for power stifled democracy for the next 60 years and his misguided economic policies of consolidating wealth in the government had the predictable results: destruction of those necessary institutions, a bloated, corrupt, unresponsive gov't, increased poverty, and the impetus for millions of educated Egyptians to seek greener pastures in the West.

 

Lets hope the new revolutionaries don't repeat those mistakes.

Word for word Castro's Cuba, yet the liberals love him.

[dpberr]

This revolution is all for show. The Egyptian military is the alpha dog in that country. It's well financed, well equipped, with an outstanding intelligence network. Every President of Egypt is former military. Sadat was assassinated by elements within the Army. Mubarak is former Air Force. His new VP is former Army.

 

All of what you see...the riots, the attacks on western press, etc. is all casus belli of the big bad military crackdown soon coming. As long as the military runs the country, groups like the Brotherhood will be lucky to remain a relevant political organization and not to end up dead, in prison, or on the run.

 

This revolution could be put down in ten minutes. It soon will. Just have to build enough cover story for the coming brutality.

Edited February 4, 2011 by dpberr

[chicot]

And it won't be easy. Nassar's lust for power stifled democracy for the next 60 years and his misguided economic policies of consolidating wealth in the government had the predictable results: destruction of those necessary institutions, a bloated, corrupt, unresponsive gov't, increased poverty, and the impetus for millions of educated Egyptians to seek greener pastures in the West.

 

Lets hope the new revolutionaries don't repeat those mistakes.

 

To be honest, I dont know that much about Nasser save for that fact that many Arabs revere him even today as he is seen as the only Arab leader willing to stand up to the West and Israel (noble failure being considered preferable to subservience). Your criticisms of him may be fair and valid as far as I know. Having said that, he was in control of Egypt for under 20 years. Sadat and Mubarak together had 40 years in which they could have rectified matters. They did not do so, instead using their time in office to line their own pockets and those of their cronies. For all his faults, that is one thing that Nasser never did.

Edited February 4, 2011 by chicot

[DC Tom]

I think your post could be interpreted as saying that, yes.

 

Or, more accurately, it could be inferred by halfwits.