sllib olaffub Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 There is more than one way to get what you want. Sure, Buffalo might not be as high as #3 again for a decade or two - hopefully, if we're as high as #3 we should be lucky to go all the way with it and be #1 - but, if there is a draft again soon where there are 2 or 3 QB's without questions like the one's in this year's draft have, then we could always trade up to get one. Trading into the #1 spot might not be possible, but trading into the top 5, say, should be possible if your team is determined enough. As for F.A. - isn't Kolb available this year? He looks, in potential, to be similar to what Brees was like before he got rolling. I know, they aren't just alike, but they both had potential to be good, and had advocates, both got usurped, etc. So, you can find good QB's in trades - you just can't find one in his prime unless you take risk - like the Kolb trade has inherent in it. I believe if our scouts and personnel men said, this guy is good enough to be a Franchise QB, and we don't think he'll be there in the second round, then you go for him. But, the thought now is most of the QB's in this class are 2-4 rounders. If the Bills feel Gabbert is the next Roethlisberger, or Flacco, then I see no harm in drafting him. But they better be sure about it, because there look to be some very good defensive talent available at #3 that might be just as hard to find elsewhere.
birdog1960 Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 and the real reason why the bills will take a qb in the first round....wilson wants it.
MyHorseAteTheKid Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 I love the Bills just as much as anyone on here but as many Gms as I seem to come across on this site none of them seem to be looking into the "future" of the Bills when they mock our pick. I agree with all of their banter on how we need linbackers and defensive line to stop the run, but lets face the facts, If we decided to draft fairley (who is not suh) and a linebacker in round 2 this team would still be 2-3 years away from winning and would still searching for our QB of the future. Here are my top reasons why I'm sold we take a QB. .7 You could always sign FA def players, how often does anyone sign FA franchise QB in free agency? Never! because no team is stupid enough to let their guy hit the market without compensation. .6 There are proven FA tackles to be had in Free agency: Brandon Mebane, Aubrayo Franklin, Richard Seymor.. How about FA linebackers Lamar Woodley, David Harris, Chad Greenway and Tamba Hali. .5 There are no guarentees that Fairley and Bowers don't turn out to be busts as well. Both are some what of a one hit wonder.. Do think the name Aaron Maybin hasn't scared anyone in the Bills organization when it comes to drafting a player who doesn't have more then a 1 great year to show on his resume? .4 Gailey and Nix say it themselves in an interview with a radio station Gailey is quoted as saying: "How many years do you expect to be able to draft at number three and be able to get a guy like that even if you put him under wraps for a year or two, while you’re grooming him? You have to consider that. We’re not in here just thinking about short term next year what can we do for the Buffalo Bills. Buddy (Nix) and I are committed to the long term success of the Buffalo Bills.” .3 Do people really think that after the combine you won't have the whole nation talking about Blaine Gabbert as the possible #1 overall pick?? Luck is good but he is more the product of Hype than a can't miss prospect.. Going into school it was Gabbert who was the more sought after recruit and he would certainly have been #1 in next years draft. .2 Lets just say we take Gailey at his word and Draft Gabbert if Carolina doesn't select him, well then we have Fitz to show him the ropes and to hold us over while Nix starts putting the rest of the defensive pieces together. Hey apparently it worked for Green bay, they still had Farve while they drafted Rodgers, granted its a lot less of a risk at where they picked him but its a similar idea. They needed to start planning for life without farve and even though they didn't need another QB they still took one because they might not ever be in that position to take another Franchise caliber guy for a while. We've sucked for 11 straight years and when during that time have we ever been able to have our choice of what franchise QB we want?? .1 We are just not that good!!!! We're improving and I do see some light at the end of this tunnel, but its gona take some time and some luck (or should I say Gabbert) When you have a shot at a Franchise QB you have to just take it. How many Franchise Quarterbacks turn out to be busts? Every year teams draft them in the first round and 3 years later they are out of football.. Teams are built on great lines and if you can get a true blue chip big body, you take him... But then again it depends on your teams scouting department, I remember Walt Patulski, Phil Dokes, John Mccargo, Mike Williams, Erik Flowers, Jim Davidson, Ken Rice and Aaron Maybin. All number one picks, all linemen, all busts.. OK.. So maybe you are right... Draft a QB in the first round, the Bills haven't done as bad drafting QB's as they have Big Bodies... lol
The Senator Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 There's probably a few besides me that are very high on Ryan Mallett, but I think everyone would agree he's a ' reach ' with the #3-overall pick. As for the rest of this year's QB's, none of 'em - Kim Newton, Gabe Blabbert, Fake Locker...none - are first-round material. My wish now is for Von Miller in round one, and come back for Christian Ponder in round three. JMO. GO BILLSSS!!!! Fear the 'stache!!!!!
PDaDdy Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) I agree with all of their banter on how we need linbackers and defensive line to stop the run, but lets face the facts, If we decided to draft fairley (who is not suh) and a linebacker in round 2 this team would still be 2-3 years away from winning and would still searching for our QB of the future. I totally disagree. To use a tried and true old phrase, "defense wins championships". That being said I fully believe at the very least you need a good decision maker at QB. Fitz being stuck behind the organizations ridiculous, misguided and just plain BONE HEADED decision to waste the time of the fans for the last 4 years waiting for Trent to grow a set and learn how to read and anticipate like a real NFL career has prevented us from seeing Fitz true potential. Being the man going into all OTAs and preseason work for the 2011 season should start to give us a better picture of what Fitz can really be. Fitz played pretty damn well most of the time last year. We will see if he can continue to show improvement and progress. That all being said. Who is your QB of the future? I don't see one that's even remotely in the conversation at #3. EVERY QB in this draft class pails in comparison to Andrew Luck. This guy will have the biggest impact on this years draft by virtue of not signing. Cam Newton? We could take him but does a team this bad really need a guy that will take at the very least 1 year to even have the hope of seeing the field? A guy that in all likelihood would take 3 years to be competent and know how to run and NFL offense? You could make a case that we should eventually get yet another guy to groom this year. IMO I think we wait until next year. If we really feel that strongly we sell the farm and do what it takes to get Andrew Luck in 2012. Depending on our record it might not take too much in the way of picks to move up. The problem as always is getting the other team to agree to the trade. For what I think we need check the signature. Edited February 3, 2011 by PDaDdy
Bill4Life Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) .7 You could always sign FA def players, how often does anyone sign FA franchise QB in free agency? Didn't New Orleans? I can see your point, but remember this, Brees was expendable only because the chargers drafted Rivers while they had him. They didn't think Brees was the answer and having a top 5 pick they new they couldn't pass up on a Franchise QB. Now do I think Gabbert and Locker turn out to be the next Rivers? I don't know, but I do know that even with all the first round busts there is still a greater chance we hit pay dirt with someone that all scount would agree is top 10 talent then trusting our ability to find a diamond in the rough like Tom Brady. As for Arizona, Warner was not drafted so he does not fit the criteria. Edited February 3, 2011 by Bill4Life
Bill4Life Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 I think we should pass on a developmental QB and only draft a QB in round 1 that can start right now. However I still feel it is more important for this team to address the trenches with this draft and mostly on the D side of the ball. We can draft a developmental QB in 3 - 6 rounds or wait till next year for a shot at Luck or any other franchise QB. Woud you really want to go through another season like we just had to have the opportunity to draft Luck?? The team that has the # 1 pick is going to be asking a Kings Randsom for him. Luck is still no sure thing either, he's good but more the product of hype. Lets take Locker for example last year at the time he was a guarenteed to be the 1st pick. If we ended up the 1st pick then of course draft him, but he's not gona be worth all the picks we have to give up to get him, I'd rather just take a developmental QB this year. Besides I think the Bills will win atleast 7 games this year, which is way to many to get the 1st pick in the draft.
yungmack Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 And just who would be that can't-miss QB prospect? As I see it, there is NO player available in this year's draft at a "position of need" for the Bills that is worth a #3 pick. The names I keep seeing on this board are either questionable or not what's most needed. The names brought forward that might help the Bills this year are all rated much lower than #3.
JohnC Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Last but not least franchise QB -- can you say J.P. Losman ???? Can you say Rodgers and Roethlesberger. Both qbs in the SB and both drafted by their respected teams.
LabattBlue Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Key is, is Gabbert a franchise player? Why not draft superstar Robert Quinn at 3 and take Kaepernick in the second and groom him when he has just as much if not more upside than Gabbert? If this was the case, you would see a lot of people talking about Kaepernick at #3 overall along with Gabbert. It is clear that they are not rated the same which is why one guy will be taken in the top 1/2 of the first round and the other guy in round 2, 3 or later. I would agree with the OP if there was a FQB worth taking at #3 but there isn't. It's a moot point. Let's build our D. ...and you know this how?
MikeSpeed Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 And just who would be that can't-miss QB prospect? As I see it, there is NO player available in this year's draft at a "position of need" for the Bills that is worth a #3 pick. The names I keep seeing on this board are either questionable or not what's most needed. The names brought forward that might help the Bills this year are all rated much lower than #3. I'll never understand why trading back is so difficult. The stupid draft points system should be revised especially after a rookie cap gets implemented. If we get the guy in the first round we are targeting anyways, why should it matter that we swap firsts and only get a 3 rounded and not a 2nd rounder if we move down 3 or 4 spots? To me we got what we wanted and got a bonus. Instead teams demand too much, end up staying where they are, and "reach" for someone. Teams meaning the Buffalo Bills.
Bill4Life Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 I definitely agree that it is a lot easier to sign a big-time LB in FA than a QB and anyone who says otherwise is just playing devil's advocate. I was with you until #3 when you try to minimize Luck's talents. He is/will be the highest touted QB prospect maybe ever. I'm not against drafting a QB though, as long as they believe he is THE MAN and not taking one for the sake of taking one, which I trust they won't do anyway. Bottom line, they won't be picking first in 2012, so they can't not take Gabbert or whoever, banking on taking Luck next year. I'm not saying that Luck isn't talented, I was just saying that he is over hyped as a lot of these prospects often are.. I would love to have him, but not at the cost of a season like we just had, and we would obviously have to be worst then that to get the # 1 pick.
Adam Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 I love the Bills just as much as anyone on here but as many Gms as I seem to come across on this site none of them seem to be looking into the "future" of the Bills when they mock our pick. I agree with all of their banter on how we need linbackers and defensive line to stop the run, but lets face the facts, If we decided to draft fairley (who is not suh) and a linebacker in round 2 this team would still be 2-3 years away from winning and would still searching for our QB of the future. Here are my top reasons why I'm sold we take a QB. .1 We are just not that good!!!! We're improving and I do see some light at the end of this tunnel, but its gona take some time and some luck (or should I say Gabbert) When you have a shot at a Franchise QB you have to just take it. We could take any of the available QB's and likely we will still end up looking for our QB of the future, but still have holes at all of the other positions to fill....
PDaDdy Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) I'll never understand why trading back is so difficult. The stupid draft points system should be revised especially after a rookie cap gets implemented. If we get the guy in the first round we are targeting anyways, why should it matter that we swap firsts and only get a 3 rounded and not a 2nd rounder if we move down 3 or 4 spots? To me we got what we wanted and got a bonus. Instead teams demand too much, end up staying where they are, and "reach" for someone. Teams meaning the Buffalo Bills. Agreed. Unfortunately it's just the nature of the beast. There isn't too much movement in the draft especially in the top 3rd of the first round. The Patriots are a rare exception the way they move around. I'll bet that the NFL draft "point system" for trading picks is based on salary compensation. There are huge differences just between players from 1 - 5 vs 6 - 10. As an example I could guess that the draft pick compensation is somewhat based upon the total average salaries of the picks you gain versus the difference in compensation between the pick you gave up in the first and how many spots you dropped in the first. Edited February 3, 2011 by PDaDdy
JohnC Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) I'll never understand why trading back is so difficult. The stupid draft points system should be revised especially after a rookie cap gets implemented. If we get the guy in the first round we are targeting anyways, why should it matter that we swap firsts and only get a 3 rounded and not a 2nd rounder if we move down 3 or 4 spots? To me we got what we wanted and got a bonus. Instead teams demand too much, end up staying where they are, and "reach" for someone. Teams meaning the Buffalo Bills. One of the primary reason why teams at the top of the draft find it so hard to trade down is the current rookie salary structure. The salary scale for the top of the draft is exhorbitant. There is better value per player in the second half of the first round. If the rookie salary structure was tapped down, as the owners and even the players want, then you would see more trades being executed. Edited February 3, 2011 by JohnC
PDaDdy Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 One of the primary reason why teams at the top of the draft find it so hard to trade down is the current rookie salary structure. The salary scale for the top of the draft is exhorbitant. There is better value per player in the second half of the first round. If the rookie salary structure was tapped down, as the owners and even the players want, then you would see more trades being executed. That would probably be a huge help.
mikey98277 Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 I promise you that there will be a franchise QB in this up coming draft, problem is we just dont know who it is, just have to trust that Buddy will know more than us.
iinii Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 This thread is wacked. QB? Seriously? there are probably some Mallett supporters out there still, even though Kiper's hair has taken him off the big board.
tonyjustbcuz Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) I love the Bills just as much as anyone on here but as many Gms as I seem to come across on this site none of them seem to be looking into the "future" of the Bills when they mock our pick. I agree with all of their banter on how we need linbackers and defensive line to stop the run, but lets face the facts, If we decided to draft fairley (who is not suh) and a linebacker in round 2 this team would still be 2-3 years away from winning and would still searching for our QB of the future. Here are my top reasons why I'm sold we take a QB. .7 You could always sign FA def players, how often does anyone sign FA franchise QB in free agency? Never! because no team is stupid enough to let their guy hit the market without compensation. .6 There are proven FA tackles to be had in Free agency: Brandon Mebane, Aubrayo Franklin, Richard Seymor.. How about FA linebackers Lamar Woodley, David Harris, Chad Greenway and Tamba Hali. .5 There are no guarentees that Fairley and Bowers don't turn out to be busts as well. Both are some what of a one hit wonder.. Do think the name Aaron Maybin hasn't scared anyone in the Bills organization when it comes to drafting a player who doesn't have more then a 1 great year to show on his resume? .4 Gailey and Nix say it themselves in an interview with a radio station Gailey is quoted as saying: "How many years do you expect to be able to draft at number three and be able to get a guy like that even if you put him under wraps for a year or two, while you’re grooming him? You have to consider that. We’re not in here just thinking about short term next year what can we do for the Buffalo Bills. Buddy (Nix) and I are committed to the long term success of the Buffalo Bills.” .3 Do people really think that after the combine you won't have the whole nation talking about Blaine Gabbert as the possible #1 overall pick?? Luck is good but he is more the product of Hype than a can't miss prospect.. Going into school it was Gabbert who was the more sought after recruit and he would certainly have been #1 in next years draft. .2 Lets just say we take Gailey at his word and Draft Gabbert if Carolina doesn't select him, well then we have Fitz to show him the ropes and to hold us over while Nix starts putting the rest of the defensive pieces together. Hey apparently it worked for Green bay, they still had Farve while they drafted Rodgers, granted its a lot less of a risk at where they picked him but its a similar idea. They needed to start planning for life without farve and even though they didn't need another QB they still took one because they might not ever be in that position to take another Franchise caliber guy for a while. We've sucked for 11 straight years and when during that time have we ever been able to have our choice of what franchise QB we want?? .1 We are just not that good!!!! We're improving and I do see some light at the end of this tunnel, but its gona take some time and some luck (or should I say Gabbert) When you have a shot at a Franchise QB you have to just take it. I want to point out some things for arguments sake even though I do agree with many things you said... I do believe the Bills need to grade each QB (and of course they have been..and will continue to do so during the upcoming combine..) and I think they should focus on the QB that they feel would be the best QB for the Bills. I am not convinced that B. Gabbert is/or isn't the right choice to date. Statistically he clearly isn't, but there are many other factors to consider. I don't claim to know all of those factors, but I guess he has the build you would want, including great arm strength which is important. In my opinion there is no clear-cut can't miss QB, but that can be said for most draft classes. I felt good about Peyton Manning and a couple of others, but it's sometimes is a crap shoot. I would like for someone to explain why Blaine Gabbert is recently becoming the media favorite QB in this year's draft class? No sarcasm here, as I'm not sure as to why Gabbert is the new golden egg once Andrew Luck elected to stay in college. What I am trying to lead up to is that I don't think the Bills neccesarily have to use their #3 pick in the draft on a QB if they like best a QB who may fall to the second round or late in the first. It happens often that a QB who is a high to mid first rounder slides drastically. Last year Jimmy Claussen was that Guy..and I forget the name, but Arizona got one of them several years ago. I don't want to spend the pick, to say...there we did it! We got a QB in the first round...How did Lossman work out? If the Bills think that Ryan Mallet is the guy I'm fine with that, or Collin K...whatever his name is? is the guy in the 2nd or 3rd that's great! Look at New England...Their guy, if we have to name names..(Tom Brady) was what a 6th rounder I think? But, the Patriots liked him, graded him high and selected him. As a matter of fact the Patriots out draft us every year yet they pick way lower than we do every year!!! Huge point there!!! So does Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, Philadelphia, and a few other excellent organizations. The biggest (by far) glaring weakness on the team last year..(and a problem prior to last year too..) was the run defense! It's a bad joke that kept us from winning overtime games against some pretty good teams! That is why the Bills were either the least or 2nd least team that other teams passed against! Why would they when they could run all over us, right down the middle, over the top, etc? That also meant less interceptions if opposing teams throw less to their wr's(ask Byrd!)This is a stat that directly affects rather a team wins or loses. Usually the team that throws more interceptions loses as a rule! We were working against the grain all season! Also our defense was on the field longer..The opposing teams can eat up more of the clock by running the ball on us! Therefore reducing our offensive capabilities by keeping the ball longer. Also if we find ourselves down by more than 10 points..like we normally were at half time it also forces our QB's hand in the second half to throw the ball and take more risks in the hopes of closing the gap in the score. In return the high risk/reward chances that Fitzpatrick was forced into taking often resulted in interceptions! This isn't rocket science!!! If you run well, and stop the run you cure a lot that ails this team and you probably win many more games!!! So do you want to go through another year of giving up 3rd down and 12 yards only to have a team run for a first down, time after time???? It wasn't the QB that was the problem! Fitzpatrick did something no other QB has did for the Bills since 2004! He passed for over 3,000 yards and threw a lot of touchdowns too! Considering he didn't even play in the first two games as Trent Edwards was still the starter he did darn good! That was only his first year as a starter and probably will progress as his offensive line gets better and he can have a chance to play with the same wr's on a weekly basis as they were injured more than they weren't! So overall what am I saying...Yes, the Bills should try to improve the position, but unless the Bills are outright sold on a QB based on their talent evaluation..then I think it would be foolish to draft a QB at the #3 positon! If their guy is Gabbert...and they are sold..and he may be gone before they can trade up or pick again then I agree..Go For It!! But, otherwise you get that DT ie: Fairley or DE Bowers if one of them are available! One year wonders? Maybe..but unfortunately, that is something that is widespread through the draft, and Aaron Maybin had some question marks attatched besides being a one year wonder ie: he was undersized and needed much development. He also was a player that they wanted to switch positions, but he doesn't play enough if at all to know if they did change him to OLB or not. He seems to have an arrogance and doesn't seem to work hard enough to succeed at the next level. I wonder how much of that isn't the fault of the Scouting Department and Tom Modrak? All that being said, I would be excited if the Bills drafted QB at #3 daydreaming of the possibility that we may have drafted our future franchise QB! So even though I'm pulling for Fairley and Bowers I can understand and appreciate the appeal that drafting Blaine Gabbert may bring! Whatever happens let's all pray that it one day leads to the Buffalo Bills being Super Bowl Champions!!! Let's go Bills..Let's Go Bills..Let's Go Bills..babababa Billllllllllz! Edited February 3, 2011 by tonyjustbcuz
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