ExiledInIllinois Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 On the river we sometimes get barges with shipments of milk. A standard 35' (wide) x 200' (long) liquid hopper barge will hold about 3200 tons of liquid product... Which is about 800,000 gallons. I am not taking sides here. I do see the absurdity with the EPA and the cost of "doing business." Yet, I do where shippers should have plans and papers laid out soas to facilitate better clean up in case of the unthinkable. Say a barge did split wide open... The Coast Guard would want to know what they are dealing with... Is it 3200 tons of say benzene or "just" milk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Say a barge did split wide open... The Coast Guard would want to know what they are dealing with... Is it 3200 tons of say benzene or "just" milk? I would HOPE no one's confusing the two. Knowing some Coasties, I wouldn't guarantee it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I would HOPE no one's confusing the two. Knowing some Coasties, I wouldn't guarantee it. Of course not! Yet, everything should have a plan with papers... No? After the spill and when the lawyers get innvolved there is going be a need to mitigate the damage. One can't just say: "it is only milk." Well, I guess one can... And that to me is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Yet, everything should have a plan with papers... No? No. There's a big difference between a barge on the intercoastal and a small production dairy farmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 If you ever saw the Salmon carcass's rotting in a river after spawning you would not be worrying about a few gallons of milk. There's a reason drinking water has always been chlorinated. Water ALWAYS has bacteria in it. BearWhizz Beer-'It's in the water, that's why it's yellow!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 What I am trying to say is that people and business are slobs... If anything discharged is not regulated... People and business will just leave it for the next guy. Make a mess... Sure don't cry over spilled milk... Just clean the !@#$ing mess up. No. There's a big difference between a barge on the intercoastal and a small production dairy farmer. I disagree. HOW do you draw the line? Small production dairy farmers add up. Again, I am not taking sides... In a perfect and honorable world I would totally agree with you. We live far from that utopia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 What I am trying to say is that people and business are slobs... If anything discharged is not regulated... People and business will just leave it for the next guy. Make a mess... Sure don't cry over spilled milk... Just clean the !@#$ing mess up. I disagree. HOW do you draw the line? Small production dairy farmers add up. Again, I am not taking sides... In a perfect and honorable world I would totally agree with you. We live far from that utopia. Small production farmers do add up. Now here's a question for you. What are the chances that enough small production dairy farmers are going to have a spill all at the same time in the same proximity that is going to require a government mandated clean up plan. Come on you draw the line on production and storage amounts. Hell their natural fertilizer runoffs cause more of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Of course not! Yet, everything should have a plan with papers... No? After the spill and when the lawyers get innvolved there is going be a need to mitigate the damage. One can't just say: "it is only milk." Well, I guess one can... And that to me is a problem. You never fail to crack me up. A milk spill on the great lakes? What damage? Dead sheepshead on Woodlawn Beach? Dioxin in lake Ontario? Sewer run off into the lakes? It is so much easier to ignore real problems and put up a fake issue I can solve with a new law. And get my Govt check also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 The EPA's assclownery is the finest example of: "Reductio Ad Absurdum (Reduction to the Absurd): A form of argument in which a proposition is disproven by following its implications logically to an absurd consequence." in this thread. Treating a dairy farmer like a big oil company? How is that not the exact definition of "following logical implications to an absurd consequence"? Gotta love it when Gene provides the means of his own demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 You never fail to crack me up. A milk spill on the great lakes? What damage? Dead sheepshead on Woodlawn Beach? Dioxin in lake Ontario? Sewer run off into the lakes? It is so much easier to ignore real problems and put up a fake issue I can solve with a new law. And get my Govt check also. Dude... Who cares about the GL's or really the rivers and streams. I am talking about clean-up. You can't just leave it even if it is just milk... For that reason, products have to be regulated and documented. I could really care less about the actual spill... It is the lawyers and others that have to sift out who is responsible to figure out who will mitigate the effects. Maybe in your world people aren't held accountable... No reason to cry or get mad, just clean it up. Sure maybe the small diary farmer is a bit overblown... Again, how do you drawn the line and stop abuse... Make everybody follow the same rules. That rule is nothing more than having a plan and knowing what you are dealing with... Even if it is "just milk." It is really is no big deal, except by people who want it to be or want to skirt some issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Dude... Who cares about the GL's or really the rivers and streams. I am talking about clean-up. You can't just leave it even if it is just milk... For that reason, products have to be regulated and documented. I could really care less about the actual spill... It is the lawyers and others that have to sift out who is responsible to figure out who will mitigate the effects. Maybe in your world people aren't held accountable... No reason to cry or get mad, just clean it up. Sure maybe the small diary farmer is a bit overblown... Again, how do you drawn the line and stop abuse... Make everybody follow the same rules. That rule is nothing more than having a plan and knowing what you are dealing with... Even if it is "just milk." It is really is no big deal, except by people who want it to be or want to skirt some issue. Is that not what I wrote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Ah, yes. The government needs to drive up the cost of milk even further by forcing companies to develop plans they won't oversee for an incident that will in all likelihood never happen. And the liberals will agree that it's totally necessary because they have no understanding of cause/effect/cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Ah, yes. The government needs to drive up the cost of milk even further by forcing companies to develop plans they won't oversee for an incident that will in all likelihood never happen. And the liberals will agree that it's totally necessary because they have no understanding of cause/effect/cost. Hey don't blame the gov't... Blame the lawyers. Anyway... Have you seen how cheap milk is? $1.99 a gallon in my neck of the woods... On sale. Maybe they should drive it up and stop promoting that diabetes bullet (juvenile). Drive the cost of formula down and the cost of milk up. Is that not what I wrote? Sorry. No. When I said "no big deal"... I meant about having a spill mitigation plan... Oh my God... Milk will skyrocket! Like libertariantard moron Darin is clinging too. Everybody knows the cause/cost/effect. One of the most disgusting field trips I ever took my children on was a "big diary" farm in Northwest Indiana... I really had no idea what I was in store for... Man was it an eye opener. What is stopping a place like that from skirting the issue and trying to lump themselves into the small diary crowd. Man, they were masters at spin... I can easily see it being done. Anyway... The milk subsidies should also stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hey don't blame the gov't... Blame the lawyers. Anyway... Have you seen how cheap milk is? $1.99 a gallon in my neck of the woods... On sale. Maybe they should drive it up and stop promoting that diabetes bullet (juvenile). Drive the cost of formula down and the cost of milk up. I've read nothing but conflicting accounts regarding that subject - nothing credible or absolute. I'd venture to guess milk would be the tiniest of issues where diabetes is concerned and all the other processed crap that is being shoved at our kids would rank much higher on the list. Milk is off the charts expensive in most places. Up about 300% over the last 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hey don't blame the gov't... Blame the lawyers. Anyway... Have you seen how cheap milk is? $1.99 a gallon in my neck of the woods... On sale. Maybe they should drive it up and stop promoting that diabetes bullet (juvenile). Drive the cost of formula down and the cost of milk up. So a growing child should drink what, coffee? Thats good for developing bones. You come up with some wild stuff but artificially driving up the price of milk so kids can't drink it is off the chart, even for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) So a growing child should drink what, coffee? Thats good for developing bones. You come up with some wild stuff but artificially driving up the price of milk so kids can't drink it is off the chart, even for you. Milk is off the charts expensive in most places. Up about 300% over the last 10 years. I must live next to "big diary"... On average one can pick up a gallon of milk for 2 to 3 bucks a gallon. Even if it is going up...Why should the cost stay static? Compare milk to what gasoline has been doing? Why should it be any different. We really don't need the commodity as much as many may think. And sure... JiA... Great for growing bones... Growing bones can get calcium from other sources... Especially early on when it is critical NOT to give children cow's milk. Edited February 4, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 And sure... JiA... Great for growing bones... Growing bones can get calcium from other sources... Especially early on when it is critical NOT to give children cow's milk. Like cheese? Oh wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Like cheese? Oh wait So you are all for milk subsidies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 So you are all for milk subsidies? No. I think the market should determine the price. I DON'T want it artificially driven up by nonsensical Govt regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) No. I think the market should determine the price. I DON'T want it artificially driven up by nonsensical Govt regulations. But milk has gone up 300% the last 10 years in some markets... NEWSFLASH: Milk prices have been low the last few years For now it is double edged sword. How many farmers are willing to agree with you. Take a subsidy, play by the rules laid out. Say they cut the susidies... Where is that extra milk going to end up if wasted? Edited February 4, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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