Bill from NYC Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I wouldnt be so insecure as a Bills fan and make that automatic concession. If Carrigton and Troupe show solid progression in their 2nd season, adding them to Williams and the others we have, our Dline is just as good if not better than either. (It's the linebackers where we compare dreadfully.) Same can be said for the OLine. I was not speaking in the hypothetical. This season we were last against the run.
truth on hold Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) I would kill for gb or pitt's def line...hampton, hood, smith, keisel....raji, pickett, jenkins...any one of those guys would start on our def line. drafting aj green i believe would be a mistake. he may very well be the best player in this draft but he wouldn't help build our team for the future. we need to build a team that is balanced and effective in all aspects of the game. we are pretty strong at the wr position at the moment and very weak on our defense line and lb position. where would they be without Harrison, Farrior, Woodley, Timmons and Polomalu (who's almost like an additional LB)? As far as Raji, his rookie #'s last year were unspectacular. In 14 games, he had a whopping 19 tackles and 1 sack. We used high picks on Troupe and Carrington last year, let's give those guys a chance on the line along with pro-bowler Kyle Williams. Edited February 1, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack
Bill from NYC Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 and btw, although I did like his defensive philosophy, I hated everything else about Jauron. Apparently the league agrees with me since he landed a DC job with a successful GM. Yes, this after going from head coach to defensive backs assistant. His philosophy was to play not to lose. This worked against a few awful teams but in the NFL a defense has to attack people and beat them up in order to beat the good teams, ala Pittsburgh. This is even more important in the elements.
truth on hold Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) I was not speaking in the hypothetical. This season we were last against the run. no doubt, but I attribute that to the linebackers more than anything. We had a pro-bowl NT on the line. Edited February 1, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack
EldaBillsFan Posted February 1, 2011 Author Posted February 1, 2011 where would they be without Harrison, Farrior, Woodley, Timmons and Polomalu (who's almost like an additional LB)? As far as Raji, his rookie #'s last year were unspectacular. In 14 games, he had a whopping 19 tackles and 1 sack. We used high picks on Troupe and Carrington last year, let's give those guys a chance on the line along with pro-bowler Kyle Williams. Kyle williams has soo much respect from coaches and other players from around the league, i dont know what kind of leader he is, but because of the respect he gotten for his play he serves as a great example fo the other guys on defense...especially on that line.... All of the Steelers defense had strong veteran leaderships
truth on hold Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Kyle williams has soo much respect from coaches and other players from around the league, i dont know what kind of leader he is, but because of the respect he gotten for his play he serves as a great example fo the other guys on defense...especially on that line.... All of the Steelers defense had strong veteran leaderships yeap, and as far as im concerned, if you have an NT and 4 linebackers, you have yourself a capable 3-4 defense. Everything else is icing on the cake.
aristocrat Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 where would they be without Harrison, Farrior, Woodley, Timmons and Polomalu (who's almost like an additional LB)? As far as Raji, his rookie #'s last year were unspectacular. In 14 games, he had a whopping 19 tackles and 1 sack. We used high picks on Troupe and Carrington last year, let's give those guys a chance on the line along with pro-bowler Kyle Williams. i agree that troupe and carrington will be solid players for us and are part of the team's future but we need to build around them as well. raji had solid rookie #'s especially playing on the def line in the 3-4 system which usually keeps #'s down for the lineman. where would matthews be without the solid play of that def line? where would raji be without the stellar play of matthews? the lb's can make the line look good but the line can also make the lb's look good. we need players at both positions for our future team to be successful.
djrocks Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 If we did not give up like 350 yards per game on the ground I would agree perhaps. Right now sounds a lot like the Spiller pick, and Magahee Pick, and the Evans pick, and the Lynch Pick, and the Losmann pick where we went for skill/talent choice over size and need. dont quite agree with your evaluation here on Green. the book is tilll open on the spiller pick. however comparing Green to the rest of the players you mentioned is not fair or correct. talent wise they are not on the same planet. sometimes players come along that are once every 5 year talents no matter what their position and i think green falls into that catagory. what would be ideal IMO is that with fairley gone @ 3 some team that may covet Green in the top 10 or 12 would want to drop down and offer us @ least a second and most likely additionally a third or fourth. then we could still get a very good player with our first round pick and the additional picks would allow us to get back into the later half of the first round and grab our starting RT for the next 10 years. i would be happy with any of the top 3 Rt's and they are all projected to go late first round.
Mr. WEO Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 How are Dez Bryant and Calvin Johnson considered mistakes? Bryant was hurt for a good portion of the season. But when he was out there he was an impact player. As for Calvin Johnson he is one of the top three receivers in the league. If that is a fair assessment, then how is drafting him at a high position considered a mistake? Of course they are not mistakes. Just pointing out that every year we hear about a "once in a generation" WR. This entices very bad teams (Detroit on many occasions, SF..) to ignore more glaring needs and blow a first round pick on one of these "rare" gems. Without a very good QB, a great receiver will have little impact. The best CB on the planet will have almost no effect on a defense overall. He only eliminates one option for the opposing QB. Most good teams are adept at spreading the ball around and don't rely solely on one or two receivers. It's amazing that half the board here has already reconciled with the possibility that we may actually draft a WR or CB at #3. Sad.
Bill from NYC Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 It's amazing that half the board here has already reconciled with the possibility that we may actually draft a WR or CB at #3. Sad. Sad and rather astounding.
DanInUticaTampa Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I personally wouldn't like the AJ Green pick unless we are trading Evans away. We have too many recievers. They aren't superstars, but they are still growing. But it would be nice to have to upgrade the #1 reciever position, especially if it is a calvin johnson type. And one of the reasons I would be ok with this is because there seems to be so much defensive talent that goes deep. My preference right now is defense rather than green..... but all I really ask for is a good player. I don't care if it is offense or defense, just no more maybins, mccargos, and whitners please.
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Of course they are not mistakes. Just pointing out that every year we hear about a "once in a generation" WR. This entices very bad teams (Detroit on many occasions, SF..) to ignore more glaring needs and blow a first round pick on one of these "rare" gems. Without a very good QB, a great receiver will have little impact. The best CB on the planet will have almost no effect on a defense overall. He only eliminates one option for the opposing QB. Most good teams are adept at spreading the ball around and don't rely solely on one or two receivers. It's amazing that half the board here has already reconciled with the possibility that we may actually draft a WR or CB at #3. Sad. Thanks for this. Great post.
BuffaloFan68 Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 The Bills are not in a position to just pick the best player available (BPA), that is a strategy that only works for established teams. Not addressing our needs and taking the BPA only makes us a revolving door of talent. We could just keep taking WRs, RBs, etc... but that will only take the team longer to get the talent where they really need it. I would like the Bills to get back to the Superbowl sooner - not later. IMO - DE is a position that we are weakest at. If we can trade down for more picks, that is great but we need some help on D that can come in and make an immediate impact.
Just in Atlanta Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Know of any teams with great wide receivers and a horrid defense, other than maybe the Rams 10 years ago, that have ever gotten to a Superbowl? AJ Greene, who I like and played for my alma mater, is a luxury we can't afford. Receivers don't win championships.
truth on hold Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Know of any teams with great wide receivers and a horrid defense, other than maybe the Rams 10 years ago, that have ever gotten to a Superbowl? AJ Greene, who I like and played for my alma mater, is a luxury we can't afford. Receivers don't win championships. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24k3PCL4prU
DreReed83 Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 youtube.com/watch?v=24k3PCL4prU I think the Steelers defense had more to do with them getting to that point. Steelers are doing just fine without Holmes this year.
JohnC Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) Again, we seem to agree more than it would appear. Here is a question: If half of the busts listed above were good players, do you think that the Bills would be a playoff team? I for one do not. They simply lack the strong, solid foundation. As for Newton, I have not seen enough of him to form a pertinent opinion. If they think that he will be great, I am not against them drafting him, Mallett, or any qb who could be a top 10 in this league. But after doing so, they have to find players who make the team bigger and stronger. That, or teams will continue to run all over us and dominate our OL, which is the blueprint for losing football games. This we have already proven. In some comical respect you and I are running around in circles chasing our tails. We do mostly agree. You asked a fair question about whether we would be a playoff team if the players selected were good players yet didn't follow your blueprint. You are not going to like my answer. They will never make the playoffs as long as Ralph Wilson owns the team. The way the organization is structured it is impossible. The business model is similar to the Pirates in MLB and the Clippers in the NBA. The franchise is and has always been merely a lucrative profit center for him. The most influential person in the organization has little to do with football. It is his finance man, Jeff Littman. The Bills are competing with the Patriots and Jets whose ownerships are committed to winning championships. Both of these organizations have more accomplished front offices and rational organizational structures. The main decision-maker as far as staffing is a reclusive Michigan based 92 yr old owner. This is a man who insists Tom Modrak has done an admirable job when the rest of the league knows that the Bills have been not only one of the worst drafting but weirdest drafting team in the league. When you have a 92 yr old owner who has at this very late stage of his life expressed little urgency and desire in doing what it takes to seriously compete then the sanest approach to take is to tamper down one's expectations. Until there is a change at the top the best one can hope for is having a team that can reasonably compete and be somewhat more entertaining. It is what it is. Edited February 1, 2011 by JohnC
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 We're talking about what to do with the #3 pick. Unfortunately a lot of our past failures have been motivated by drafting for need -- Lynch, Whitner, McCargo, McKelvin, Maybin. Had we taken BPA we'd almost certainly have been much better off. I dont see any front 7 defender that justifies such a high pick, so the table would be set for another "need" based failure. Joe, I Get It. You love Green. Bills must draft Green. I have two questions. First question: who do you see as the "BPA" picks in lieu of Lynch, Whitner, McCargo, McKelvin, and Maybin? Just curious, cuz IMO I think on our board at least some of them were BPA picks. Second question: If Green is such a marvelous, can't miss, once in a decade talent to whom no front 7 defender measures up, why will he be on the board at #3? Don't Carolina and Denver need WR and shouldn't they jump at the chance to draft a once-in-a-decade talent? Also, the line will benefit from the maturation of Troupe and Carrington. Personally, I'd leave the line as is this year, and if we're lucky enough to get Green, then Id predominantly look for line backers in the other rounds. The rest of TBD appears to agree with you on the linebackers. I hope Troup and Carrington will become solid contributors. At a minimum, we seem to need another solid DE.
Ramius Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 The Bills are not in a position to just pick the best player available (BPA), that is a strategy that only works for established teams. Not addressing our needs and taking the BPA only makes us a revolving door of talent. We could just keep taking WRs, RBs, etc... but that will only take the team longer to get the talent where they really need it. I would like the Bills to get back to the Superbowl sooner - not later. IMO - DE is a position that we are weakest at. If we can trade down for more picks, that is great but we need some help on D that can come in and make an immediate impact. Reaching for needs is what keeps bad teams bad. The reason good teams are good is becasue they continually take the best talent, and then subsequently keep said talent. The Bills reached for preceived "needs" with Whitner, McCargo, Lynch, Maybin, etc. Look where that got us.
JohnC Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 It's amazing that half the board here has already reconciled with the possibility that we may actually draft a WR or CB at #3. Sad. My position is simple. Make good picks. The problem with the Bills is that they make a pick at whatever positon and when that player fails or is let go because of a contract issue they have to go back and refill the same positon. The Bills have failed at the draft task because they have consistently made bad picks, no matter what postion the prospect plays.
Recommended Posts