Good Scouting Report on DE's in the draft

[box0life]

Wow - Some Pass Rusher Scouting Reports

by ForeignArrow on Jan 26, 2011 4:01 PM EST

 

 

9 COMMENTS EMAIL PRINT

This year's top pass rushing prospects... a deep draft for DE/OLB's

 

 

 

Von Miller - as much as I hate player comparisons, Von Miller compares very well to Aaron Maybin. Ultra quick off the snap, good agility, but utterly awful at the physical aspects of the game. Engaging, disengaging, fagettaboutit. I wouldn't even draft Von Miller in the 1st round based on his lack of size AND strength. Speed will get you sacks in college... but alone will not get you sacks in the NFL.

 

Da'Quan Bowers - after looking into Bowers I came away pretty unimpressed. He was smart to come out after getting 15.5 sacks, because the likelihood of him following that up is very low. He holds his ground against the run well, but isn't that good at getting off blocks to make tackles and pursue. Pass rush is limited, usually gets coverage sacks or takes advantage of a QB that gets happy feet. Many of the plays he made were due to his sheer physical advantage, as with Von Miller, that won't cut it in the NFL. Bowers will likely need a couple of seasons to develop some pass rush moves and learn how and when to disengage blocks. But that goes for most DL. Either way he's not a particularly good fit for Buffalo's 34, he absolutely cannot play in coverage and is not exactly best suited for the 5-tech, either. I think his measurables will be a disappointment to most people when the combine/pro days come around.

 

Robert Quinn - Absolutely could not find many flaws in his game. He played a little high sometimes against the run, but it didn't seem to matter. He's one of those players that's almost impossible to block. He consistently split double teams, set the edge on perimeter running plays, and almost never failed to at least make the QB know he was coming. He thoroughly beat Blake Costanzo of Boston College, considered a top OL prospect, in spite of TE help throughout the game. His athleticism is unmatched for a player his size. He can make the play on the QB no matter where he is in the pocket, finishing his sacks. He showed a variety of pass rush: speed, swim, change-up, bull. He showed good instincts against the run, not too hasty to crash inside and lose contain. No doubt in my mind he can drop back in coverage, it's more of an issue of him getting used to it. The big concern with him is he's been out of football for a year. That will have to be dealt with in the pre-draft stuff.

 

Aldon Smith - This is a guy who is dubbed as a classic raw high-ceiling prospect. I don't know how I feel about that. He's not a good combatant for a guy who plays in the trenches. He's rangy, quick, and agile... but not elite at any of them. He lacks strength to "set the edge" against the run. Another classic speed-rusher with no ability to power thru an OT or TE. He got around a lot of OT in college, but he was often side-stepped by QB's and he didn't have the agility finish those sacks.

 

Akeem Ayers - Here's a player a lot of people are high on. He looks good on paper: nice size at 6'4" @ +250 lbs. When you watch him play, though, he is very easily blocked. He makes plays by avoiding blocks, which is one strategy. But, to be a complete player in the NFL, in particular an OLB in a 34, you need to be more physical. He lacks strength to incorporate power moves into his pass rush, something he was good at, but was by no means a world-beater. IMO he projects more to a true OLB in a 43 defense. He simply isn't good enough at mixing it up with O-linemen to consistently play with his hand on the ground. I also question his demeanor: he doesn't have that tenacious or aggressive demeanor I want in my front 7.

 

Justin Houston - This is a guy that will probably climb draft-boards throughout the process. His athleticism and size (6'3" @ 260 lbs) are phenomenal. He is Mr. Versatility. He played DE and OLB almost equally as much for the Dawgs. His speed rush off the edge is devastating. He needs to expand that, but he showed potential to do so because he's good at hand-to-hand combat and has phenomenal balance. Of all of these pass rushers, he is the surest one to project to OLB in the 34, simply because he actually played OLB with 3 down linemen in some of Georgia's fronts. And he actually looks smooth in coverage, but doesn't have a lot of experience in man coverage. He holds up well against the run, always scrapping and his instincts funnel him to the ball. His biggest area for improvement would be taking on blocks but keeping track of the ball, as he likes to beat the block and then relocate the ball. In the NFL, the play would already be by him. He's not worthy of Buffalo's top pick, but if Buffalo found themselves somehow after that with Houston on the board, it's a no-brainer.

 

Bottom Line: The only player to live up to any of their hype SO FAR was Robert Quinn. He and Justin Houston are the only ones that could probably contribute to the Bills right away and warrant a high selection. If the Bills plan on getting a developmental guy, then they should do it in later rounds. Only teams with established starters at most positions should be taking developmental players in the 1st round. I would say Quinn is as good as any prospect out there, although he lacks as much the fan-fare that comes with a name like AJ Green or Patrick Peterson, or even a Nick Fairley.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Quinn was my pick in the begging of the season and would be happy to have him but Dareus is my pick now, Brooks Reed or Sam Acho would be great OLBs latter. Glad to see that someone isn't ga-ga for bowers I think he will be a bust.

[Pete]

I would be ok with Quinn, Fairley, or Green with the 3rd pick. Miller, Dareous, Newton wouldn't make me nauseus if selected them at 3. Any other selection at 3 would make me vomit

[Thoner7]

These are easily the most accurate reports on all these guys I have read. I didnt see any of Ayers so I cant say one way or the other on him. I do disagree with Bowers though. I thought he disengaged extremely well and easily controls the man attempting to block him. He essentially can go wherever he wants, and plays very sound TEAM defense. He isnt super quick off the ball like Quinn, but I really think he is a prototype 5 tech. I havent seen Cameron Jordan from Cal but I am looking forward to on Saturday because the reports have him dominating the Sr bowl and being a great 5 tech prospect.

 

I think Jordan or Quinn could be the pick if we end up trading back into the 8-12 range.

[Magox]

These are easily the most accurate reports on all these guys I have read. I didnt see any of Ayers so I cant say one way or the other on him. I do disagree with Bowers though. I thought he disengaged extremely well and easily controls the man attempting to block him. He essentially can go wherever he wants, and plays very sound TEAM defense. He isnt super quick off the ball like Quinn, but I really think he is a prototype 5 tech. I havent seen Cameron Jordan from Cal but I am looking forward to on Saturday because the reports have him dominating the Sr bowl and being a great 5 tech prospect.

 

I think Jordan or Quinn could be the pick if we end up trading back into the 8-12 range.

I dont believe Quinn will be there by the time 8 picks

[Estro]

Wow - Some Pass Rusher Scouting Reports

by ForeignArrow on Jan 26, 2011 4:01 PM EST

 

 

9 COMMENTS EMAIL PRINT

This year's top pass rushing prospects... a deep draft for DE/OLB's

 

 

 

Von Miller - as much as I hate player comparisons, Von Miller compares very well to Aaron Maybin. Ultra quick off the snap, good agility, but utterly awful at the physical aspects of the game. Engaging, disengaging, fagettaboutit. I wouldn't even draft Von Miller in the 1st round based on his lack of size AND strength. Speed will get you sacks in college... but alone will not get you sacks in the NFL.

 

Da'Quan Bowers - after looking into Bowers I came away pretty unimpressed. He was smart to come out after getting 15.5 sacks, because the likelihood of him following that up is very low. He holds his ground against the run well, but isn't that good at getting off blocks to make tackles and pursue. Pass rush is limited, usually gets coverage sacks or takes advantage of a QB that gets happy feet. Many of the plays he made were due to his sheer physical advantage, as with Von Miller, that won't cut it in the NFL. Bowers will likely need a couple of seasons to develop some pass rush moves and learn how and when to disengage blocks. But that goes for most DL. Either way he's not a particularly good fit for Buffalo's 34, he absolutely cannot play in coverage and is not exactly best suited for the 5-tech, either. I think his measurables will be a disappointment to most people when the combine/pro days come around.

 

Robert Quinn - Absolutely could not find many flaws in his game. He played a little high sometimes against the run, but it didn't seem to matter. He's one of those players that's almost impossible to block. He consistently split double teams, set the edge on perimeter running plays, and almost never failed to at least make the QB know he was coming. He thoroughly beat Blake Costanzo of Boston College, considered a top OL prospect, in spite of TE help throughout the game. His athleticism is unmatched for a player his size. He can make the play on the QB no matter where he is in the pocket, finishing his sacks. He showed a variety of pass rush: speed, swim, change-up, bull. He showed good instincts against the run, not too hasty to crash inside and lose contain. No doubt in my mind he can drop back in coverage, it's more of an issue of him getting used to it. The big concern with him is he's been out of football for a year. That will have to be dealt with in the pre-draft stuff.

 

Aldon Smith - This is a guy who is dubbed as a classic raw high-ceiling prospect. I don't know how I feel about that. He's not a good combatant for a guy who plays in the trenches. He's rangy, quick, and agile... but not elite at any of them. He lacks strength to "set the edge" against the run. Another classic speed-rusher with no ability to power thru an OT or TE. He got around a lot of OT in college, but he was often side-stepped by QB's and he didn't have the agility finish those sacks.

 

Akeem Ayers - Here's a player a lot of people are high on. He looks good on paper: nice size at 6'4" @ +250 lbs. When you watch him play, though, he is very easily blocked. He makes plays by avoiding blocks, which is one strategy. But, to be a complete player in the NFL, in particular an OLB in a 34, you need to be more physical. He lacks strength to incorporate power moves into his pass rush, something he was good at, but was by no means a world-beater. IMO he projects more to a true OLB in a 43 defense. He simply isn't good enough at mixing it up with O-linemen to consistently play with his hand on the ground. I also question his demeanor: he doesn't have that tenacious or aggressive demeanor I want in my front 7.

 

Justin Houston - This is a guy that will probably climb draft-boards throughout the process. His athleticism and size (6'3" @ 260 lbs) are phenomenal. He is Mr. Versatility. He played DE and OLB almost equally as much for the Dawgs. His speed rush off the edge is devastating. He needs to expand that, but he showed potential to do so because he's good at hand-to-hand combat and has phenomenal balance. Of all of these pass rushers, he is the surest one to project to OLB in the 34, simply because he actually played OLB with 3 down linemen in some of Georgia's fronts. And he actually looks smooth in coverage, but doesn't have a lot of experience in man coverage. He holds up well against the run, always scrapping and his instincts funnel him to the ball. His biggest area for improvement would be taking on blocks but keeping track of the ball, as he likes to beat the block and then relocate the ball. In the NFL, the play would already be by him. He's not worthy of Buffalo's top pick, but if Buffalo found themselves somehow after that with Houston on the board, it's a no-brainer.

 

Bottom Line: The only player to live up to any of their hype SO FAR was Robert Quinn. He and Justin Houston are the only ones that could probably contribute to the Bills right away and warrant a high selection. If the Bills plan on getting a developmental guy, then they should do it in later rounds. Only teams with established starters at most positions should be taking developmental players in the 1st round. I would say Quinn is as good as any prospect out there, although he lacks as much the fan-fare that comes with a name like AJ Green or Patrick Peterson, or even a Nick Fairley.

 

 

Are these your observations, becuase I gotta say I agree with almost all of them? Especially on Akeem Ayers and Von Miller. Ayers plays too upright and is blocked easily by offensive lineman in the second level. I too would not touch Von Miller with a 1st round pick. I don't care how much havoc he wreaked in the Big 12, after the Maybin disaster I'd be too afraid to go down that road again. He's been getting his fair share of hype from Mayock this week, but Mayock carefully states that he's a beast getting after the passer, not sure about him in the other areas. Once 300 lb. OL get there hands on him coming off the edge, which they will more often than not he'll be totally neutralized.

There isn't much else to say, these reports are right on the money. I think Bowers is a nice player, but agree he's not dominant in any phase of the game, which a top 3 pick should be. The fact that we're sticking with the 3-4 (listen to Buddy Nix's video w/ Chris Brown) means Bowers doesn't fit into our defense. Quinn was an absolute beast last year, and I don't think you can take that away from him. The fact that he hasn't played live football in over a year though is surely going to hurt his stock. #3, IMO is too risky for Quinn, and I don't think it fits Nix' drafting philosophy. Once again, if you listen to Buddy's video with Brown today he seems much more concerned with acquiring ILB and DL than he does finding OLB, and I think that's what Quinn would be in a 3-4 defense. I still think OLB is an area of major need regardless of what Nix says (lot of posturing during this time of year), and if the Bills were to trade down, Quinn would certainly be an option.

 

My Top 5 Prospects as of now:

 

1 - A.J. Green - I love everything about him as a receiver, only downside is he has a thin build. A luxury pick for sure, but you never know. Reminds me of a young Larry Fitzgerald.

2 - Nick Fairley - Big time prospect for a 4-3 team looking for a penetrating DT. Don't think he fits Buddy'd philosophy, only did it for 1 year.

3 - Marcel Dareus - Think he'd be a great 3-4 DE who can kick inside on passing downs and collapse the pocket. Strong and surprisingly athletic. More in line with Buddy's philosphy, played at a high level for a few years.

4 - Robery Quinn - Won't go this high because of the suspension, but he's a physical specimen. If teams believe he can play OLB in the 3-4 he's a top 10 pick.

5 - DaQuan Bowers - A 4-3 DE, that's it. So IMO, no way the Bills take him. Above average in a lot of areas, not dominant in any.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Estro

[Green Lightning]

If you guys are actually down there and watching the practices, thanks. Great service to TSW. I've seen Bowers play on the tube and wans't blown away. I was more impressed with Fairley and Dareus, but that's on TV. Thanks for the reports.

[WVUFootball29]

Defensive line is the strongest position in this draft. It is imperative that the Bills take at least 1 if not two Dlineman in the first 3 rounds.

[Rockinon]

Why is Cameron Jordan not in this list?

[thebandit27]

Von Miller is a 3-year starter (whereas Maybin started 11 games), has played as a rush LB for 2 full seasons (whereas Maybin spent 11 games as a LDE exclusively), and is a graduating senior (whereas Maybin declared as a red-shirt sophomore), that doesn't sound like Maybin to me.

 

Additionally, it's not like the guy hasn't faced solid OTs in college. He wreaked havoc against DeMarcus Love vs. Arkansas, sacking Ryan Mallett once, forcing several incompletions, and pressuring him into an interception. Miller also took Danny Watkins of Baylor to school--a guy some analysts believe could go as high as the top 45 come April. And let's not forget Miller's 2009 abuse of Nate Solder of Colorado, who will likely be the first tackle off the board in 2011; Miller ate him up for 2.5 sacks and 3 other QB pressures.

 

Yeah, sounds just like Maybin, who people rail on for getting all of his sacks against sub-par competition.

Edited January 27, 2011 by thebandit27

[Webster Guy]

Defensive line is the strongest position in this draft. It is imperative that the Bills take at least 1 if not two Dlineman in the first 3 rounds.

completely agree. Despite what Nix is saying about sticking with 3-4, i believe this draft and how our new talent shakes out in training camp will determine what style of defense we play. My hunch is that Wannstedt is going to push for a 4-3 based on our personnel (and the fact that he prefers it). Moats and Poz for sure starters, upfront kyle, Dwan, our 1st round pass rusher and 4th spot open in camp for guys like Spencer J, Carrington, Troupe etc.

 

I think this senior bowl coaching thing is a huge help for us, and that Chan will find us one late round gem in outside linebackers: Mississippi State's K.J. Wright, Arizona's Brooks Reed or inside linebackers Miami's Colin McCarthy, LSU's Kelvin Sheppard or N.C. State's Nate Irving.

 

We need a tough front seven. I would burn my first three picks in this area.