Maybin ??

[iinii]

Chan was interviewed by NFL network after senior bowl practice and Mayock asked him if the light has come on for Maybin and said he still waiting and that he needs to learn to play the run and has only one pass rush move and that is speed. Don't know why after two years a guy can't work on his game and figure out what he needs to do to get better. Last chance for Maybe.

Maybin is a chump.

[Green Lightning]

Just cut him and let him focus on his rap career.

 

PS don’t draft Von Miller.

 

No to the first point, give him one more TC. YES to the second point....we don't need another Maybin.

[JohnC]

If it's not too much trouble, can I get sources and/or links to substantiate the following statements in bold? I may be wrong but I'm not aware of the Bills (or any team for that matter) releasing information of this sort to the public.

 

Do you think the Bills would have drafted Maybin (no matter who was doing the picking) if he didn't have a first grade rating? There is plenty of commentary indicating that other scouts and teams had a much lower rating of Maybin. Russ Lande a former NFL scout who still is involved in draft scouting services said on WGR55 something to the effect that based on what he reviewed on his college tapes that the Maybin pick was absurd.

 

The bottom line is it doesn't really matter who flubbed the pick. It is still an organizational failure which has plagued the Bills for a very long time. The Maybin pick undertandably gets a lot of attention. There are so many other glaringly bad picks at very high draft locations. Whitner, McCargo, Hardy, McKelvin, Mike Williams, LB Paul P, etc. The bottom line is that from a draft standpoint the body of work is very mediocre. What makes the situation more aggravating is that teams such as the Steelers and Ravens draft after us and select better players at a cheaper cost.

 

There is a reason why the Bills have had only one winning record (9-7) over the past decade and have not participated in the playoffs during that period: They draft poorly.

Edited January 27, 2011 by JohnC

[dpberr]

Maybin does not have football smarts or intuition for the game, and that can't be taught.

 

No team is going to be able to turn the lights on.

 

For the hell of it however, I would have spent this offseason trying to see if he could be a TE.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Do you think the Bills would have drafted Maybin (no matter who was doing the picking) if he didn't have a first grade rating?

Jauron had the final vote, but the war room was run by consensus at the time. There can really be little doubt that Modrak, who it is confirmed sets the draft board, must have placed Aaron Maybin in the group of top 1st round talent on that board.

 

Suggesting that in such a consensus-driven process, Jauron simply went off and used his own draft board that nobody else in the room knew anything about is a laughably weak cover-up attempt.

[NoSaint]

Someone pointed out on here, or in an article that if we followed the Kiper's of the world we could have Ngata, Revis and Orakpo. Three of the younger and premier players at their position. Instead we have Whitner, McKelvin, and Maybin. Ouch.

 

In some way I hope Maybin has an amazing camp/offseason and the switch goes on, but I more likely see a cut.

 

Atleast our drafts the last 2 years other than Maybin have had quality players. I do think/hope Spiller will breakout some this year and I liked what I saw from Troup, Carrington, and Moats, especially Carrington and Moats. Add in some of the undrafteds and quality was added to the team.

 

Let's be honest - if we had ngata (by proxy someone other then mccargo- I won't even argue mangold), and revis.... Odds are we wouldn't have had a shot at orakpo. Odds are we'd be drafting late enough that maybin might have seemed like a reasonable pick!

 

Jauron had the final vote, but the war room was run by consensus at the time. There can really be little doubt that Modrak, who it is confirmed sets the draft board, must have placed Aaron Maybin in the group of top 1st round talent on that board.

 

Suggesting that in such a consensus-driven process, Jauron simply went off and used his own draft board that nobody else in the room knew anything about is a laughably weak cover-up attempt.

 

So let's say that he had Cushing 10 but someone was worried about steroids, and maturity, and how much at USC was him vs clay vs Rey - someone calls veto, orakpo in a similar spot but Ralph or someone didn't like the UT work ethic - veto, and maybin was around 20 but Dicky and perry loved him for there scheme.

 

I know these are a string of what ifs but both orakpo and Cushing had those questions and they were raised right here. I'm not saying it did happen that way, but it well could have. If modrak had him 20ish I would not run him out of town. It's easy to say some people had him 3rd round but....

[Sisyphean Bills]

So let's say that he had Cushing 10 but someone was worried about steroids, and maturity, and how much at USC was him vs clay vs Rey - someone calls veto, orakpo in a similar spot but Ralph or someone didn't like the UT work ethic - veto, and maybin was around 20 but Dicky and perry loved him for there scheme.

 

I know these are a string of what ifs but both orakpo and Cushing had those questions and they were raised right here. I'm not saying it did happen that way, but it well could have. If modrak had him 20ish I would not run him out of town. It's easy to say some people had him 3rd round but....

I'd still fault Modrak heavily for putting him in the top 20 group. In hindsight, it is crystal clear Maybin shouldn't have been in the top 200, let alone the top 20.

 

Modrak works for the team and collects a paycheck, no? He supposed to be an expert talent evaluator, no? So, why load the board up with dicey or flat-out bad picks, wash your hands of it, and let a room with the proven evaluation skills of Ralph, Dick Jauron, and Russ Brandon sort the wheat from the chaff in a pressurized decision making environment?

 

There were plenty of reasons NOT to choose Maybin. Just watch the tape of him in the Rose Bowl.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

It's very rare to ever hear a coach talk about a player o ntheir own team in such harsh words. Based on comments like that I'm guessing he will be cut this spring, but no sense cutting him today as it serves no useful purpose to the Bills. Not even sure if you could cut a player right now

[JohnC]

Let's be honest - if we had ngata (by proxy someone other then mccargo- I won't even argue mangold), and revis.... Odds are we wouldn't have had a shot at orakpo. Odds are we'd be drafting late enough that maybin might have seemed like a reasonable pick!

 

 

 

So let's say that he had Cushing 10 but someone was worried about steroids, and maturity, and how much at USC was him vs clay vs Rey - someone calls veto, orakpo in a similar spot but Ralph or someone didn't like the UT work ethic - veto, and maybin was around 20 but Dicky and perry loved him for there scheme.

 

I know these are a string of what ifs but both orakpo and Cushing had those questions and they were raised right here. I'm not saying it did happen that way, but it well could have. If modrak had him 20ish I would not run him out of town. It's easy to say some people had him 3rd round but....

 

How many "what ifs" are you going to come up with for a DECADE of bad drafts- the same period of time when Modrak headed the college scouting department. Not addressing the scouting department as an obvious source of the team's problems on the field qualifies as ownership malpractice. The owner has no difficulty firing Bill Polian and John Butler/A.J. Smith, but for some odd reason he has a soft spot for the person heading one of the worst scouting departments in the league. How much sense does that make?

 

Every team makes mistakes with their picks, even their high picks. It is a very challenging task. But after a decade of drafting futility that results with the current team being little better than an expansion team, what does the goofy owner do? He continues on with the status quo operation. That type of oddball decison-making certainly reflects the caliber of ownership and the dysfunctional nature of the organization he has assembled.

Edited January 27, 2011 by JohnC

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

Maybin does not have football smarts or intuition for the game, and that can't be taught.

 

No team is going to be able to turn the lights on.

 

For the hell of it however, I would have spent this offseason trying to see if he could be a TE.

 

So a guy who "does not have football smarts or intuition for the game" you want to ask him to learn the entire rout tree of the TE position and all the other wide outs for an entire playbook, and ask him to learn how to read defenses? I think you're really on to something. After all its just for the hell of it.

[NoSaint]

I'd still fault Modrak heavily for putting him in the top 20 group. In hindsight, it is crystal clear Maybin shouldn't have been in the top 200, let alone the top 20.

 

Modrak works for the team and collects a paycheck, no? He supposed to be an expert talent evaluator, no? So, why load the board up with dicey or flat-out bad picks, wash your hands of it, and let a room with the proven evaluation skills of Ralph, Dick Jauron, and Russ Brandon sort the wheat from the chaff in a pressurized decision making environment?

 

There were plenty of reasons NOT to choose Maybin. Just watch the tape of him in the Rose Bowl.

 

 

i would say there were a lot of reasons, especially in hindsight, but before the draft putting maybin at 20 when you are looking for the fastest first step as one of your main criteria for rating the position of DE is not absurd. we truly have no idea what values he was pressed to use in his ratings. when drafting for a scheme, and not for raw talent, all kinds of issues pop up.

 

my point wasnt that maybin was a good pick, but that we dont know what was behind the scenes.

 

its funny how as the later rounds roll around we seemed to get great value out of picks that likely didnt have a lot of interest from ralph and what id assume to be nearly as much film study etc... done by dick. logic says in the 7th you are at most a hc is saying get me the best corner or get me the best wr -- more likely just asking who is your BPA here unless they have ties to the player ala cj ah you or that rb ralph really wanted in the fourth that one year - dont remember his name off hand. wright?

 

 

suddenly we start hitting on guys like KW while his first round counterpart that likely had many more voices involved flopped. hitting on steve johnson when likewise his early second round counterpart flopped. even guys like peters, fred jackson, greer, and i know ill get killed but for a 6th, ellison was more then you would expect from his draft slot. dont just take a tackle at 4 because you need one -- id like to see who his bpa would have been at the mike williams pick. do you think that it was his call to trade up for losman? or did someone panic about getting a qb in the first round or else. do you think he made the choice of whitner over ngata? because it sounded like dick was DETERMINED to get his bob sanders to run that defense.

 

 

im not excusing modrak, but saying there might be a reason when all is said and done, there might be a reason that someone like nix would keep him around.

 

i suppose i am playing devils advocate to those hanging it all on him, and saying its likely somewhere in the middle. if you assume some of our flops were overdrafted by others, and dropped them down a handful of slots, i dont think anyone would complain with his rankings based on what we knew about these guys before the draft.

Edited January 27, 2011 by NoSaint

[JohnC]

i would say there were a lot of reasons, especially in hindsight, but before the draft putting maybin at 20 when you are looking for the fastest first step

 

The problem isn't his fast fist step. It is his second and third step when the OT or OG consistently knocks him down on his skinny rear end.

 

 

 

im not excusing modrak, but saying there might be a reason when all is said and done, there might be a reason that someone like nix would keep him around.

 

Have you ever considered that it is the owner who wants to keep him on the payroll? It doesn't matter what others think, if you please the owner and the boss you have solidified your hold on the job, regardless of your record for the past decade.

[Sisyphean Bills]

i would say there were a lot of reasons, especially in hindsight, but before the draft putting maybin at 20 when you are looking for the fastest first step as one of your main criteria for rating the position of DE is not absurd. we truly have no idea what values he was pressed to use in his ratings. when drafting for a scheme, and not for raw talent, all kinds of issues pop up.

 

my point wasnt that maybin was a good pick, but that we dont know what was behind the scenes.

 

its funny how as the later rounds roll around we seemed to get great value out of picks that likely didnt have a lot of interest from ralph and what id assume to be nearly as much film study etc... done by dick. logic says in the 7th you are at most a hc is saying get me the best corner or get me the best wr -- more likely just asking who is your BPA here unless they have ties to the player ala cj ah you or that rb ralph really wanted in the fourth that one year - dont remember his name off hand. wright?

 

 

suddenly we start hitting on guys like KW while his first round counterpart that likely had many more voices involved flopped. hitting on steve johnson when likewise his early second round counterpart flopped. even guys like peters, fred jackson, greer, and i know ill get killed but for a 6th, ellison was more then you would expect from his draft slot. dont just take a tackle at 4 because you need one -- id like to see who his bpa would have been at the mike williams pick. do you think that it was his call to trade up for losman? or did someone panic about getting a qb in the first round or else. do you think he made the choice of whitner over ngata? because it sounded like dick was DETERMINED to get his bob sanders to run that defense.

 

 

im not excusing modrak, but saying there might be a reason when all is said and done, there might be a reason that someone like nix would keep him around.

 

i suppose i am playing devils advocate to those hanging it all on him, and saying its likely somewhere in the middle. if you assume some of our flops were overdrafted by others, and dropped them down a handful of slots, i dont think anyone would complain with his rankings based on what we knew about these guys before the draft.

Actually, I think the consensus choice was a terrible way to run a war room. It eliminates players based on passion and leaves you picking the kid that nobody has a strong opinion on. This may come as a shock to some, but even Bruce Smith was not perfect coming out of college. If the war room was run by consensus, the Bills would've passed on him because one of the numb nuts would've been chirping about how Smith was too small and overweight.

 

I don't give Modrak or the scouting a pass because some late rounders have gotten playing time. I've said it numerous times before, somebody must play. It only underscores just how bad they are that they have to use 5th and 7th round stop gaps to plug holes in the dike because none of their top picks can play.

[NoSaint]

The problem isn't his fast fist step. It is his second and third step when the OT or OG consistently knocks him down on his skinny rear end.

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever considered that it is the owner who wants to keep him on the payroll? It doesn't matter what others think, if you please the owner and the boss you have solidified your hold on the job, regardless of your record for the past decade.

 

 

its very possible its all ralph. but on that token, couldnt the picks just as easily be all ralph?

 

 

 

i think no matter what, its obvious there was and still may be an organizational issue. whether or not that has changed, we can only hope yes.

 

 

whether we went bpa with spiller, or were strong armed into him is a question we may never know. on every ranking he was a top ten player though, which is something we cant say about the spot we took donte, or mccargo, or maybin, or marshawn, or.... even into the second round trading up for poz instead of waiting for either him or harris, taking hardy cause he was tall.... when we very much draft for scheme and need we have failed miserably. i do not think those players were a failure of rankings, but a failure of how we have tried to build this team - create a hole and fill it with whoever happens to be there in round 1 or 2. if huff fell, i have to believe we wouldve taken him over donte. we just had to have to best safety on the board there for some reason.

 

if you told modrak i want the fastest first step, and he said, well heres maybin, hes fast, but hes only had one, albeit good year, and he will get knocked around if he doesnt put on weight.... that wouldnt be a failure on modrak. we really just dont know whats going on, and consensus can do weird things to a room. likewise a poorly educated dictator can be a dangerous drafter.

 

just as those picks are a very good reason to doubt him, there are reasons that you can put that doubt on the system just as easily.

 

all we can do is hope to identify the real issue.

 

Actually, I think the consensus choice was a terrible way to run a war room. It eliminates players based on passion and leaves you picking the kid that nobody has a strong opinion on. This may come as a shock to some, but even Bruce Smith was not perfect coming out of college. If the war room was run by consensus, the Bills would've passed on him because one of the numb nuts would've been chirping about how Smith was too small and overweight.

 

I don't give Modrak or the scouting a pass because some late rounders have gotten playing time. I've said it numerous times before, somebody must play. It only underscores just how bad they are that they have to use 5th and 7th round stop gaps to plug holes in the dike because none of their top picks can play.

 

i agree that straight consensus is awful.. if that was whats going on, i cant put it on modrak though, he built the draft board, not the organizational structure.

 

 

other then the example of ellison, im not sure which late rounder that was playing just because we had no one else you are talking about. i listed greer, jackson, peters, steve johnson, and kyle williams. i included with ellison a disclaimer that i didnt think he was all that good but when you look at 6th round picks, hes generally better then his 6th round peers (cue the brady references). I dont think he belonged as a starter but as a sixth arent you looking for reliable depth? based on the system we had, i would have been fine with ellison being a guy coming off the bench.

Edited January 27, 2011 by NoSaint

[Sisyphean Bills]

other then the example of ellison, im not sure which late rounder that was playing just because we had no one else you are talking about. i listed greer, jackson, peters, steve johnson, and kyle williams. i included with ellison a disclaimer that i didnt think he was all that good but when you look at 6th round picks, hes generally better then his 6th round peers (cue the brady references). I dont think he belonged as a starter but as a sixth arent you looking for reliable depth? based on the system we had, i would have been fine with ellison being a guy coming off the bench.

Not too complicated.

 

Drafted Spiller, they play Fred Jackson.

Drafted Aaron Maybin, they play anyone else.

Drafted McKelvin, they play other corners.

Drafted James Hardy, they cut him and play Johnson and Nelson and ...

Drafted Chris Ellis, they cut him and play anyone else.

Drafted Marshawn Lynch, they play Fred Jackson and dumped him for a 4th rounder.

Drafted Trent Edwards, they cut him and play a journeyman.

Drafted John McCargo, they play anybody else.

Drafted Ashton Youboty, no impact.

Drafted Roscoe Parrish, ... he returns punts, but now we got Spiller.

Drafted JP Losman...

 

When you draft bust after bust after bust, you have to play somebody. That doesn't mean they hit a gold mine. I may cheer for Stevie Johnson, for example, but I'd be kidding myself if I said there weren't real flaws in his game.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Let's compare Modrak's record in Buffalo to the Steelers from 2002-2008 (we fall back 3 years to get a more accurate assessment of long-term impact of picks). Let's break the draft into 3 brackets: rounds 1-3, rounds 4-5, rounds 6-7 for convenience. Now let's list the "productive" players in those brackets, I'll cross out names that the Bills have given up on (i.e., stop gap fillers). (I did this very quickly, so I may have missed some players.)

 

Modrak Bills:

1-3: Josh Reed, Kelsay, Evans, Whitner, Lynch, Pos, Edwards, McKelvin

4-5: McGee

6-7: Ellison, Bell, Johnson

 

Steelers:

1-3: Simmons, Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Starks, Miller, McFadden, Holmes, Timmons, Woodley, Mendenhall

4-5: Foote, Taylor, Colon, Sepulveda

6-7: Kemoeatu

 

So, we see that the Steelers also get some players in the late rounds, but they hit on so many players early that most of their late rounders cannot crack the lineup.

[CardinalScotts]

again we missed the most important numbers about maybin 2 and 1 his age 21. He's been a diappointment to say the least but way to young to cut him

[JohnC]

its very possible its all ralph. but on that token, couldnt the picks just as easily be all ralph?

 

Highly unlikely. Ralph likes to play with his toy franchise. Meddling with the first pick is probable. Getting involved with the later picks simply takes too much energy for the tired owner.

 

 

 

i think no matter what, its obvious there was and still may be an organizational issue. whether or not that has changed, we can only hope yes.

 

The problem with the franchise has little to do with the team, and everything to do with the organization that the zany owner constructed. With Ralph, the franchise is first and foremost a business venture and profit center. Until he leaves the scene the architecture and caliber of staffing of this organization will not meaningfully change.

 

whether we went bpa with spiller, or were strong armed into him is a question we may never know. on every ranking he was a top ten player though, which is something we cant say about the spot we took donte, or mccargo, or maybin, or marshawn, or.... even into the second round trading up for poz instead of waiting for either him or harris, taking hardy cause he was tall.... when we very much draft for scheme and need we have failed miserably. i do not think those players were a failure of rankings, but a failure of how we have tried to build this team - create a hole and fill it with whoever happens to be there in round 1 or 2. if huff fell, i have to believe we wouldve taken him over donte. we just had to have to best safety on the board there for some reason.

 

With respect to Spiller I have little problem with his selection. He was rated as a top ten talent and he demonstrated in college that he was a playmaker. That is something the team sorely lacked. If you expect me to be critical of this organization for drafting on the basis of taking the best player available (especially considering their drafting history) then you are mistaken. It is still too early to conclusively judge that pick. In my mind, there was sound reasoning for taking him, with his talent level being the most persuasive reason. There are not many players on this roster to be excited about. He is one of them.

 

 

 

if you told modrak i want the fastest first step, and he said, well heres maybin, hes fast, but hes only had one, albeit good year, and he will get knocked around if he doesnt put on weight.... that wouldnt be a failure on modrak. we really just dont know whats going on, and consensus can do weird things to a room. likewise a poorly educated dictator can be a dangerous drafter.

 

The mistake made with Maybin and other picks such as Flowers, Hardy etc is that the focus was on particular physical attributes instead of asking the most basic question: Is the player a good football player? Issues regarding football intelligence and instincts should have been considered more when making selections.

 

just as those picks are a very good reason to doubt him, there are reasons that you can put that doubt on the system just as easily.

 

all we can do is hope to identify the real issue.

 

 

 

i agree that straight consensus is awful.. if that was whats going on, i cant put it on modrak though, he built the draft board, not the organizational structure.

 

The organizational structure is a creation of the owner. It works for him. Maybe not on the field but certainly on his ledger books. The owner had people such as Polian and Butler/A.J.Smith working for him who knew how to build a successful franchise. He drove them out. The owner had other priorities. So they were dispatched.

[Gabe Northern]

Do you think the Bills would have drafted Maybin (no matter who was doing the picking) if he didn't have a first grade rating?

 

No.

 

Modrak leaked that he preferred Cushin with the pick.

 

This came to be understood by Modrak supporters as "Modrak didn't want to draft Maybin."

 

In reality, Jauron was simply deciding between the next 2 guys on Modrak's draft board.

[BADOLBILZ]

Does anyone know what is the real issue with Aaron Maybin is? Why he doesn't play in games, and may possibly even be cut? Like many of you I did not want to draft him, and I have watched every game he has played in as a Bill. But what is the underlying reason why? Why he has sometimes not even dressed for games? Does anyone have any insider information?

 

Is it because he is too light? Too weak? Not intelligent? Has no heart, desire, drive? Has no mean streak? Doesn't care? Unable to grasp new position? Doesn't understand scheme? Or he just can't play football or isn't a football player?

 

I am just curious to know if there is any chance for the problem to ever be corrected. Possibly with added weight, weight training, coaching, or even possibly a mentor like Merriman. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

The first time I saw Maybin in preseason I got a feeling like a kick in the gut that this guy was not going to cut it.

 

Simply put, he got smacked around as if he'd never played tackle football. You can't play in the front 7 of an NFL defense if you can't play with power. It's all relative, but there are WR's in the NFL that play with more force than Maybin. He is the opposite of country strong.

 

Forget about his average speed and lack of weight. There are plenty of good players his size and speed in front 7's around the NFL. I don't know if getting stronger in the weight room is going to help, I think it's either about a lack of natural power or a lack of "want to" on the field.