To me Coach Lovie Smith showed a lot of class.

[BuffOrange]

Perhaps they did. But the trainers, who should have been worried about the long term health of the franchise QB, should have been more concerned.

 

Really though, since when do you care about the PR effect of the Bears trainers? That's all such obvious backpedalling after being wrong for calling out the guy's toughness/heart.

 

And to think MJD "I sat out the last two games which my team needed to win" was leading the cheapshot parade

[NoSaint]

Cutler is tough. He has taken a lot of hits and never pointed fingers. He has terrible receivers, and nothing special at running back. He is definitely "tough enough".

 

Problem is he's a douche.

 

 

i know he hasnt this year, but i think his past pointing of fingers is catching up now. it was part of his rep coming out of vandy. at the very least it isnt helping his case.

 

i think he is physically tough, but emotionally, no so much.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Really though, since when do you care about the PR effect of the Bears trainers? That's all such obvious backpedalling after being wrong for calling out the guy's toughness/heart.

 

And to think MJD "I sat out the last two games which my team needed to win" was leading the cheapshot parade

 

 

Backpedaling? I apologize for upsetting you, Mrs. Cutler, but ask you to read my actual post. I said that this was a "perception problem," and that it was too bad for Cutler that his reputation had left him vulnerable to such charges. You may think that no one should ever have questioned Cutler in the first place. That is a debatable but intellectually defensible position, but it begs the question of what could have been done to avoid the controversy that actually exists.

[NoSaint]

Really though, since when do you care about the PR effect of the Bears trainers? That's all such obvious backpedalling after being wrong for calling out the guy's toughness/heart.

 

And to think MJD "I sat out the last two games which my team needed to win" was leading the cheapshot parade

 

 

are you implying even if the injury warranted him being on the sideline, how he handled that showed either heart, or toughness? you are applying what is valid broad range criticisms, and applying them to solely the fact that he got pulled.

 

if he were on the sideline engaged in the game, or getting real treatment, i would not imply he quit or that he was mentally not as tough as he should be. that said, he quit on his team regardless of the extent of the injury, and the team handled it all like they had no idea what to do.

[MRW]

Backpedaling? I apologize for upsetting you, Mrs. Cutler, but ask you to read my actual post. I said that this was a "perception problem," and that it was too bad for Cutler that his reputation had left him vulnerable to such charges. You may think that no one should ever have questioned Cutler in the first place. That is a debatable but intellectually defensible position, but it begs the question of what could have been done to avoid the controversy that actually exists.

Honestly? I don't think anything could've been done. I think fans form irrational perceptions of players and everything gets filtered through that lens. Someone who hates Cutler sees a 5-second shot of him listening to an earphone on the sidelines and it's just confirmation of their belief that he's not a team player. Wrap his leg up and put him on crutches, the complaint would be that's he's milking his injury and trying to make it look worse than it really is. In the middle of a conference championship game, the team has more important things to worry about than how irrational fans are going to twist the situation to fit their preconceived notions.

[stevestojan]

Martz's call on third down when he handed off to the WR crossing over an empty backfield was a complete joke.

 

 

i heard reports today of unnamed teammates making comments in the locker room including "he isnt even in a brace."

 

i also stand by every comment ive made about his sideline demeanor, and that he needed to be in treatment off his knee, or helping hanie. he did neither

 

 

 

 

Cutler is tough. He has taken a lot of hits and never pointed fingers. He has terrible receivers, and nothing special at running back. He is definitely "tough enough".

Problem is he's a douche.

 

This. (or should I say "These")

[reddogblitz]

Don't tell me you guys are disagreeing with the expert analysis of Me-ion Sanders.

I had to laugh at DeeOn on that one. I lived in Dallas when he played for Cowboys. He missed several games including a playoff game one season with turf toe. But, did play in the Pro Bowl that year.

 

I think Cuttler's getting a raw deal.

[NoSaint]

I had to laugh at DeeOn on that one. I lived in Dallas when he played for Cowboys. He missed several games including a playoff game one season with turf toe. But, did play in the Pro Bowl that year.

 

I think Cuttler's getting a raw deal.

 

yea some of the comments were very off base, but i do think theres still an issue there. When you give up picks, and big money like that, i think there are certain expectations. this was supposed to be their manning, brady, brees.... that he was not, on or off the field. and because of that some people are being very hard on him. im trying to seperate it from the press conferences, the interceptions and just isolate it as "franchise qb is hurt, what should he do?" and the answer was not what he did. i could come up with a solid 6-8 things off hand that would have been better. the fact that he and the organization didnt see that is bad news for the bears.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Honestly? I don't think anything could've been done. I think fans form irrational perceptions of players and everything gets filtered through that lens. Someone who hates Cutler sees a 5-second shot of him listening to an earphone on the sidelines and it's just confirmation of their belief that he's not a team player. Wrap his leg up and put him on crutches, the complaint would be that's he's milking his injury and trying to make it look worse than it really is. In the middle of a conference championship game, the team has more important things to worry about than how irrational fans are going to twist the situation to fit their preconceived notions.

 

 

That is an excellent point about preconceived notions, and I agree with you. It may very well be that the Bears could not have done anything else, and it was just unfortunate that Cutler got hurt.

 

What fascinates me about this whole case, though, is how it is possible that someone as central to a team's planning as the starting QB can simply be cast aside and ignored like Cutler was, or allowed himself to be, in the second half of a championship game. Did he have nothing at all of use for the team in the game once he was no longer playing? No knowledge, no insight into the preparations, no advice for a kid who was playing in his first live NFL action? Now, I was not on the Bears' sideline; none of us was. Maybe he was full of advice and bonhomie. But it is worth noting that I have not heard Lovie Smith or anyone say, "Jay was totally into the game, giving good advice, and was an active teammate while on the sideline." If someone did say that, it would certainly go a long way toward undercutting the preconceived notion. If he could not play because of the injury, I completely understand that, as I am not of the "kitty vs. caveman" school. I am nevertheless amazed he did not choose to be more active in helping his team. (Based admittedly on nothing more than the assumption that if he were actively involved, there would be evidence of it.) Which comes right back to the character questions.

 

Then again, maybe all this proves is that the players really are just interchangeable cogs, and the coaches do not really need to know or care what any of them think when they are not actually playing. That, of course, is another conversation entirely.

Edited January 27, 2011 by RJ (not THAT RJ)

[MRW]

That is an excellent point about preconceived notions, and I agree with you. It may very well be that the Bears could not have done anything else, and it was just unfortunate that Cutler got hurt.

 

What fascinates me about this whole case, though, is how it is possible that someone as central to a team's planning as the starting QB can simply be cast aside and ignored like Cutler was, or allowed himself to be, in the second half of a championship game. Did he have nothing at all of use for the team in the game once he was no longer playing? No knowledge, no insight into the preparations, no advice for a kid who was playing in his first live NFL action? Now, I was not on the Bears' sideline; none of us was. Maybe he was full of advice and bonhomie. But it is worth noting that I have not heard Lovie Smith or anyone say, "Jay was totally into the game, giving good advice, and was an active teammate while on the sideline." If someone did say that, it would certainly go a long way toward undercutting the preconceived notion. If he could not play because of the injury, I completely understand that, as I am not of the "kitty vs. caveman" school. I am nevertheless amazed he did not choose to be more active in helping his team. (Based admittedly on nothing more than the assumption that if he were actively involved, there would be evidence of it.) Which comes right back to the character questions.

 

Then again, maybe all this proves is that the players really are just interchangeable cogs, and the coaches do not really need to know or care what any of them think when they are not actually playing. That, of course, is another conversation entirely.

Well, here's what Caleb Hanie had to say about Cutler's input. It doesn't show heavy involvement in breaking down defenses, but it does indicate engagement in the game. Specifically these quotes from Hanie mirror what my overall point would be:

 

"He helped me out numerous times throughout the game," Hanie said. "When I went in, first of all he came and talked to me and said, 'Hey, trust yourself, trust your reads, use your feet if you have to; don't be afraid to do that. Trust the o-line and you'll be fine.' That calmed me down a little bit.

 

"Then after we went down and scored, I had the adrenaline going a little bit after that touchdown and it was the same thing. Right when I got to the sidelines he was the first one to say 'Great job, now you've just got to go get another one. Make sure you stay calm and composed in there.' So he helped me. He did that numerous times throughout the game. I guess people didn't see that on TV but it definitely happened."

 

None of us were there on the sidelines, at best we saw tiny snippets of what was going on. I don't think it's possible for us to know how involved and enthusiastic Cutler really was.

 

On the other hand, to engage in some speculation based on my own preconceived notions, it would not surprise me one bit if Mike Martz didn't care about the players' thoughts when they weren't on the field, and basically told Cutler to butt out of his coaching. That's admittedly unfair based on the argument I've just been making on behalf on Cutler, but hey, I just don't like Martz.

[dave mcbride]

I had to laugh at DeeOn on that one. I lived in Dallas when he played for Cowboys. He missed several games including a playoff game one season with turf toe. But, did play in the Pro Bowl that year.

 

I think Cuttler's getting a raw deal.

Turf toe is a serious injury. It's essentially a torn ligament in your big toe. You can't plant on your foot. It's brutal for a cornerback.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Well, here's what Caleb Hanie had to say about Cutler's input. It doesn't show heavy involvement in breaking down defenses, but it does indicate engagement in the game. Specifically these quotes from Hanie mirror what my overall point would be:

 

 

 

None of us were there on the sidelines, at best we saw tiny snippets of what was going on. I don't think it's possible for us to know how involved and enthusiastic Cutler really was.

 

On the other hand, to engage in some speculation based on my own preconceived notions, it would not surprise me one bit if Mike Martz didn't care about the players' thoughts when they weren't on the field, and basically told Cutler to butt out of his coaching. That's admittedly unfair based on the argument I've just been making on behalf on Cutler, but hey, I just don't like Martz.

 

Thanks MRW, that is some interesting stuff, and I am glad that Hanie spoke up. It would have been better all around for Cutler if those comments had gotten more play.

 

And I am totally with you on Martz.

[1B4IDie]

A grade II sprian means that the ligaments tore away from the bone.

 

Id like to see someone try to plant and throw with no ligament on the their knee. Especially Cutler whose whole game is about his arm

 

That is not the definition of a Level II Sprain.

 

This is the definition of a Level II ACL Sprain

 

Grade 1 Sprains. The ligament is mildly damaged in a Grade 1 Sprain. It has been slightly stretched, but is still able to help keep the knee joint stable.

 

Grade 2 Sprains. A Grade 2 Sprain stretches the ligament to the point where it becomes loose. This is often referred to as a partial tear of the ligament.

 

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00549

 

 

RBs and WRs sometimes play with a Grade 2 Sprain and they have to run. Cutler could have stood planted and thrown with no problem. Numb it up and go out and play.

 

Anyone defending Cutler that isn't involved with the Bears 1.) Never played team sports. 2.) Never had a sprain

 

The QB of the team needed to be out there to guide them to a win.

 

If for some reason he or they wouldn't let him play he needed to be in the locker room away from the cameras not sulking on the bench.

 

Lovie Smith handled it horribly and turned it into a cluster.

 

If Cutler is in the locker room most of these questions don't happen.

 

Philip Rivers played with an actual torn ACL (Level 3) AND sprained MCL (Level 1 or 2) in the 2007 AFC Championship. He could barely walk. That is a franchise QB.

Cutler has just made the case in point as to why he is a whinny douche that is out for himself and not a franchise QB that will do whatever it takes to lead his team to a championship.

 

Urlacher is going to continue to find Cutler's battles for him because Cutler clearly can't fight for himself.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Why So Serious?

[reddogblitz]

Anyone defending Cutler that isn't involved with the Bears 1.) Never played team sports. 2.) Never had a sprain

I defend Cuttler and I have played team sports and had a sprain. It's real easy to sit on my couch and say a guy should play after diagnosing his injury from thousands of miles away.

The QB of the team needed to be out there to guide them to a win.

Mr. Hanie said he did and he was there. He should have a lot better idea on what Cuttler did than us watching on TV.

If Cutler is in the locker room most of these questions don't happen.

If people aren't trying to diagnose and judge him based on a few 1-2 second clips on the sidelines, these questions don't happen. Jay said he was too hurt to play. The Chicago Bears medical staff said he was too hurt to play. His coach said he was too hurt to play. Who knows, maybe he was too hurt to play?

 

I don't know that much about Jay Cuttler and his mental toughness etc. But I do know that playing professional sports with type 1 diabetes is tough. If he can do that, he is one tough hombre. If you don't believe that then you don't know much about type 1 diabetes.

 

This whole "controversy" is just plain silly. It's just the NFL Channel's version of Entertainment Tonight.

[BuffOrange]

are you implying even if the injury warranted him being on the sideline, how he handled that showed either heart, or toughness? you are applying what is valid broad range criticisms, and applying them to solely the fact that he got pulled.

 

if he were on the sideline engaged in the game, or getting real treatment, i would not imply he quit or that he was mentally not as tough as he should be. that said, he quit on his team regardless of the extent of the injury, and the team handled it all like they had no idea what to do.

 

 

I think fans form irrational perceptions of players and everything gets filtered through that lens. Someone who hates Cutler sees a 5-second shot of him listening to an earphone on the sidelines and it's just confirmation of their belief that he's not a team player. Wrap his leg up and put him on crutches, the complaint would be that's he's milking his injury and trying to make it look worse than it really is. In the middle of a conference championship game, the team has more important things to worry about than how irrational fans are going to twist the situation to fit their preconceived notions.

 

This x100.

 

It's sort of like a speech from the President. If you vote for the other party you invent a reason to say it sucked.

Edited January 27, 2011 by BuffOrange

[1B4IDie]

 

Mr. Hanie said he did and he was there. He should have a lot better idea on what Cuttler did than us watching on TV.

 

 

Standing on the sideline talking to a 3rd string QB is not "out there."

 

And what was Haine supposed to say? "Ah no he didn't help at all he just cried on the bench and said something about his Momma."

Haine gave a PR answer.

 

 

If people aren't trying to diagnose and judge him based on a few 1-2 second clips on the sidelines, these questions don't happen. Jay said he was too hurt to play. The Chicago Bears medical staff said he was too hurt to play. His coach said he was too hurt to play. Who knows, maybe he was too hurt to play?

 

 

No one is trying to judge based on 1-2 second clip. People are judging based on the medical information that was released after the game.

Grade 2 ACL sprain.

You're a QB in the NFC Championship game. You have all offseason to get surgery if it gets worse. It's either you or 15 year do nothing vet or a 3rd stringer "never will be" emergency QB.

 

You have all ofseason to rehab, get out there and be a franchise QB. You don't get paid 10s of Millions of dollars have your franchise trade tons of pick to whisper sweet nothings in your 3rd stringer's ear.

 

This is the NFC championship game we're talking about not week 3.

 

Philip Rivers and Cutler used to have shoot outs and Cutler just proved he can't hold Rivers' jock strap.

 

Now I will say this, Grade 2 ACL sprain often does not require surgery a Grade 3 requires surgery. If there is a higher risk of complications in surgery because of Type I Diabetes, which there probably is and if the staff was being conservative because they were worried about long term complications then I am a gigantic Richard head for calling this out.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Why So Serious?

[NoSaint]

 

 

 

This x100.

 

It's sort of like a speech from the President. If you vote for the other party you invent a reason to say it sucked.

 

 

i think youre short changing me -- ive defended cutler plenty of times over the years, but there are clear issues with what happened.

 

i guess ill leave you with this question -- same situation happens in greenbay, pittsburgh, indy, new england, or new orleans - do you think they (both team and player) handle it differently?

 

I do think that they would handle it differently.

 

im not saying jay cutler is a pansy and needs to quit football, but its a rep that hes had trouble with for years, and the bears have had a rep for not knowing what to do with the qb position. both of those seemed to be on display that afternoon. will it ruin his career? no. in fact i imagine he comes back trying extra hard to prove everyone wrong.

 

heaven forbid someone applies rational thought to a situation, and comes to a different conclusion then you. it must be that i have some preconceived hatred of cutler -- im not sure where i picked it up, but.... thats clearly the best explanation for why we lean separate ways on this one incident. is this the part where we agree to disagree and start pointing out grammar, spelling, and typos?

 

Well, here's what Caleb Hanie had to say about Cutler's input. It doesn't show heavy involvement in breaking down defenses, but it does indicate engagement in the game. Specifically these quotes from Hanie mirror what my overall point would be:

 

 

 

None of us were there on the sidelines, at best we saw tiny snippets of what was going on. I don't think it's possible for us to know how involved and enthusiastic Cutler really was.

 

On the other hand, to engage in some speculation based on my own preconceived notions, it would not surprise me one bit if Mike Martz didn't care about the players' thoughts when they weren't on the field, and basically told Cutler to butt out of his coaching. That's admittedly unfair based on the argument I've just been making on behalf on Cutler, but hey, I just don't like Martz.

 

 

 

 

ill be frank here about that quote-- short of a picture of cutler putting in his ipod earbuds, i cant think of anything worse for the perception that he wasnt engaged in the game. his third string, no experience backups biggest compliment was that when he went in the game, and when he scored the touchdown he gave a 10 second "keep at it and dont get flustered" speech. if that counts as engaged in the game, and supportive of his team, i dont know what you would call disengaging.... napping? actively feeding them misinformation?

 

i dont dislike the guy but its sad that we somehow take that as the best he could do for his team in that situation.