BuffaloBaumer Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Man, some people on this board come up with some crazy things some times...I love how you ignore Big Ben (2 time SB Champion) who in his last SB appearance won the game for Pitt after the D broke down and gave up a long Fitzgerald TD near the end of the 4th quarter for what looked like a probably game winning TD for AZ. He only led them straight down the field and threw a perfect game winning TD for his SECOND SB win in his still relatively young career. Or how about Rodgers who is playing better than anyone in the NFL right now and dismantling his opponents while carrying his team through the playoffs so far? Or how about Sanchez, who once again is in the AFC Championship in just his 2nd year, and once again is having a strong postseason, including 3 TD's against the Pats this weekend to out duel Brady and Belichick (who is the best coach in the NFl, and probably top 3 all time, at game planning against young QB's). How about Cutler? He is playing at a very high level right now and has been since mid season and he is doing it with a mediocre group of recievers. Coincidentally, all four are first round draft picks, all four teams generally win when the QB plays well and lose when the QB struggles. Defense is an important part of football, but so is the offense. To be a consistently winning team with a below average QB you need to have an ELITE defense...and I am sorry, we are not one or two players away from an ELITE defense. We would be a much better team (including on defense) if we had a much more consistent QB then we would be if we just got one more great player on D. Need more proof...Which team do you HONESTLY think has the better record this year...this exact Bills team with any of the top Defensive guys like Ngata anchoring our D...or this exact Bills team with one of the top QB's leading our team like A. Rodgers, P. Manning, Brees, or Brady? Clearly, anyone with any football sense of any kind would agree, any of those QB's (as well as guys like Big Ben, Rivers, Vick, etc) would clearly impact this teams win loss record greater than adding the best D player to our team. Defense is important, but its easier to win in this league with a solid D and a good QB than a very good D and a weak QB. And there you have it......
RealityCheck Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 This is the dumbest thread ever. Winning the Super Bowl requires an excellent TEAM. Arguing about which positions are most important is an exercise in futility. Great teams require great players, but I guess that is too simple of a concept.
Fan in San Diego Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Yea, Brady, Brees and Manning have not won many games (and Super Bowls) in the league...please Um, ya, they all lost this year because of good defenses. So yes, dude is correct. phhhullleeeeassse.
Maddog69 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 You will waste any QB you draft unless you fix they lines first. PTR can't they be fixed concurrently or slightly after? or is any new QB drafted going to be automatically doomed for their entire career if the lines are not fixed before that players name is spoken at the draft.
RealityCheck Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Um, ya, they all lost this year because of good defenses. So yes, dude is correct. phhhullleeeeassse. You are only half right Einstein, they also lost because of their own defenses. A convenient part of the equation to leave out. One could say that Brady lost because of the Jets defense, but you could also say that Brady lost because of his own defense. In a team sport like football, offense and defense are not exclusive of one another.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 can't they be fixed concurrently or slightly after? or is any new QB drafted going to be automatically doomed for their entire career if the lines are not fixed before that players name is spoken at the draft. In theory, Maddog69, you're absolutely right. Add the pieces in whatever order. In practice, if the line isn't solid, the future QB star is at risk. And paradoxically, the worse the line is, the more polished/pro-ready the QB needs to be. A few years of losing and and the future QB star gets tagged with the "Bust!" label while the team looks for a change. Jason Campbell comes to mind. 1st round draft pick, not terrible stats, just no wins. Off with his head, let's bring in McNabb. Hahahahaha! It seems to me that the high-round draft choices with highest success come in after the coaching's in place and the lines are fixed. Let him learn one system. Give him an experienced line that can help with calling protections. Avoid making him gun-shy or teaching him bad habits. Alex Smith comes to mind- if he'd played for one different system with better coaching, would he have succeeded? It's an impatient age. That's why I don't see the QB thing. If there were a pro-ready guy in the draft, go for it. But I don't see it. Fitz is a competent starting QB, let him start, see what he can become. Build the lines and watch for our chance at a QB star-of-the-future when there's a system in place for him to come into. None of our votes count though
1B4IDie Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 In theory, Maddog69, you're absolutely right. Add the pieces in whatever order. In practice, if the line isn't solid, the future QB star is at risk. And paradoxically, the worse the line is, the more polished/pro-ready the QB needs to be. A few years of losing and and the future QB star gets tagged with the "Bust!" label while the team looks for a change. Jason Campbell comes to mind. 1st round draft pick, not terrible stats, just no wins. Off with his head, let's bring in McNabb. Hahahahaha! It seems to me that the high-round draft choices with highest success come in after the coaching's in place and the lines are fixed. Let him learn one system. Give him an experienced line that can help with calling protections. Avoid making him gun-shy or teaching him bad habits. Alex Smith comes to mind- if he'd played for one different system with better coaching, would he have succeeded? It's an impatient age. That's why I don't see the QB thing. If there were a pro-ready guy in the draft, go for it. But I don't see it. Fitz is a competent starting QB, let him start, see what he can become. Build the lines and watch for our chance at a QB star-of-the-future when there's a system in place for him to come into. None of our votes count though You think Chan Gailey's offensive system is not the perfect system for a young QB? Clearly the idea that the rookie QB will be on the Buddy Nix tested Philip Rivers sit and wait plan. Again 2011 is a great year for the Bills to get on the plan. You have an offensive minded coach with an ability to improve QB play, a smart veteran that is no skilled but is make it the most with the limited tools he has, tons of defensive talent in rounds 2-4, no QB talent in the 2012 draft (after Luck) (with 2013 not looking too hot, but its too early).
DreReed83 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Uhhhh....Sanchez was the 5th overall pick and had 3 TD passes today. I think the Jets would consider him a franchise QB. He's not. If he didn't have the support of a top 3 defense and a top 5 running game, then he wouldn't be sht. He completes a hair over 50% of his passes...has a 35 TD and 37 TOs in his career and has a career high rating of 75. His QB rating would be ranked 27th in the NFL this year. You think these bullsht numbers are worthy of franchise QB title? Sanchez is the most overrated and overhyped QB I've seen in awhile.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 He's not. If he didn't have the support of a top 3 defense and a top 5 running game, then he wouldn't be sht. He completes a hair over 50% of his passes...has a 35 TD and 37 TOs in his career and has a career high rating of 75. His QB rating would be ranked 27th in the NFL this year. You think these bullsht numbers are worthy of franchise QB title? Sanchez is the most overrated and overhyped QB I've seen in awhile. Hmmm...its only his second year and playing on the biggest stage...you talk about his rating, so I would also like to add his QB Rating for the playoffs since you brought up his rating: 2009: 92.7 (rookie year) 2010: 91.6 He has 7 TD's to 3 Int's in the playoffs, completes over 60% of his passes in the playoffs and averages over 7.5 YPA. So for as much as Bills fans want this kid to be a flop, he is pretty good in his very young career on the biggest stage. This kid has a lot of upside, and people forget how little experience he had coming out of college yet has been the QB of a team in his first 2 years that have gotten to the AFC Championship game in a conference with Brady and Manning in it. Sorry, but this kid isnt as bad as board members want him to be and he is just getting started. Is he an Elite QB now? NO, of course not...but this kid has come up big in some big games or with the game on the line several times in his young career. His cieling is high...whether he keeps getting better or not is in his hands, but he definitely has shown he has the potential on more than one occassion to say the least.
bbb Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 This is the dumbest thread ever. Winning the Super Bowl requires an excellent TEAM. Arguing about which positions are most important is an exercise in futility. Great teams require great players, but I guess that is too simple of a concept. I agree that this is the dumbest thread ever, but disagree a little on the reasoning.......I don't think all positions are equal in importance. QB is by far the most important position on the field. Vince Lombardi loved the team concept of football and hated how darned important that QB position was. So, I guess my question to the OP is "Can we draft an entire defense with the 3rd pick?" If so, then I'm on board. (Actually, I officially would be on board with picking a D player, if there are no franchise QBs in this draft, and there just might not be).
Rayzer32 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 There wasn't much defense played in any game this past weekend. The avg points scored between all four games was 58. The lowest team points in a game were 21, ironically by both number 1 seeds Atlanta and NE. Offenses won this past weekend.
McD Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 Man, some people on this board come up with some crazy things some times...I love how you ignore Big Ben (2 time SB Champion) who in his last SB appearance won the game for Pitt after the D broke down and gave up a long Fitzgerald TD near the end of the 4th quarter for what looked like a probably game winning TD for AZ. He only led them straight down the field and threw a perfect game winning TD for his SECOND SB win in his still relatively young career. Roethlisraper again had the benefit of a dominant D and if you remember the play right at the end of the half (an AMAZING defensive TD), you'll see that it wasn't all Big Ben... Or how about Rodgers who is playing better than anyone in the NFL right now and dismantling his opponents while carrying his team through the playoffs so far? Rodgers IS playing great, no doubt, and this is year what for him to finally show something?? Or how about Sanchez, who once again is in the AFC Championship in just his 2nd year, and once again is having a strong postseason, including 3 TD's against the Pats this weekend to out duel Brady and Belichick (who is the best coach in the NFl, and probably top 3 all time, at game planning against young QB's). Sanchez, who has a rating equivilent to Fitz? Sanchez who had to "beat" a NE D that was rated WORSE than the Bills? Hey, I was rooting for him, but again I think Fitz on the Jets plays better than Sanchez. How about Cutler? He is playing at a very high level right now and has been since mid season and he is doing it with a mediocre group of recievers. Cutler has proven nothing except he has a big arm. He's a year removed from 25+ Int's, and was traded (how many "franchise QB's" are traded in their prime? Cutler also had to beat a super scary 7-9 Seahawks team... Coincidentally, all four are first round draft picks, all four teams generally win when the QB plays well and lose when the QB struggles. Defense is an important part of football, but so is the offense. To be a consistently winning team with a below average QB you need to have an ELITE defense...and I am sorry, we are not one or two players away from an ELITE defense. We would be a much better team (including on defense) if we had a much more consistent QB then we would be if we just got one more great player on D. Need more proof...Which team do you HONESTLY think has the better record this year...this exact Bills team with any of the top Defensive guys like Ngata anchoring our D...or this exact Bills team with one of the top QB's leading our team like A. Rodgers, P. Manning, Brees, or Brady? I don't need freaking proof. How the hell do you compare the only position on the field that there is only one of (save the Center), to every other position where you need multiple players.... I mean, no **** a QB is HUGE, but I'd rather have a draft full of D this year instead of "reaching" for Mallett or Newton at 3. THAT is what this entire thread has been based on... Neither are worth it there... and they'd be sitting for how long, while we watch teams run the ball down our throats. Look... if we get some help on D in FA... and I mean A LOT of help, then go for it... Clearly, anyone with any football sense of any kind would agree, any of those QB's (as well as guys like Big Ben, Rivers, Vick, etc) would clearly impact this teams win loss record greater than adding the best D player to our team. Good grief... see above... Defense is important, but its easier to win in this league with a solid D and a good QB than a very good D and a weak QB.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 The Steelers D spotted Balt a bunch of points in the first half. Two great D's. Game won by superior offense. I guess I see it as game won by superior defense (Pitt) supported by adequate offense and fewer mistakes (Pitt). YMMV.
McD Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 I agree that this is the dumbest thread ever, but disagree a little on the reasoning.......I don't think all positions are equal in importance. QB is by far the most important position on the field. Vince Lombardi loved the team concept of football and hated how darned important that QB position was. So, I guess my question to the OP is "Can we draft an entire defense with the 3rd pick?" If so, then I'm on board. (Actually, I officially would be on board with picking a D player, if there are no franchise QBs in this draft, and there just might not be). Dumbest ever huh? Lol... you don't read these boards much do you? Honestly... The OP states that I think we get more impact at a D position at #3 than with Newton or Mallett. Hell, if the D player we need isn't there at #3, then trade the hell down, pick up the "savior" at 10-15 and get some extra picks (to use hopefully on D, TE or OL) I also mentioned a "franchise QB" and everyone ran off with a first round pick at QB... they conviniently leave out the fact that there a way more first round QB busts than their are that are worthy of that pick, but if they leave that out, it makes their arguments better, so whatever. We SUCK at stopping the run... SUCK at it. I don't care if Jesus was playing QB for us, when you give up 200+ yds on the ground for HALF OF YOUR GAMES, you will remain well below .500
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 As Brian Brohm proved, the QB does has a role in protection schemes. That same Bills O-line you are praising in front of Fitz suddenly looked lost and overmatched with Brian Brohm under center. Stick a rookie hotshot there and I expect the same thing to happen. One of Fitz's underappreciated skills is reading defenses, changing protection schemes at the line, and rolling the play away from the rush. Despite how some may feel about Fitz's (exaggerated) inaccuracy and/or arm strength issues, he is one of the best QBs in the NFL when it comes to seeing the field and responding on the fly. PTR I would have given Brady credit for being one of the best at seeing the field and adjusting/finding the open man. Today, he was missing open receivers that were jumping up and down and waving next to the 1st down yard marker. Apparently, being slammed to the FieldTurf a few times and run around the backfield like a headless chicken can have some effect on this skill.
bisonbrigade Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Only an idiot would draft a QB in the 1st round, because you have to have a 1st round QB to win. You need Defense and a QB. It doesn't matter where the QB comes from. When the Bills choose at #3 there is absolutely no QB worth drafting at the position. Reaching for a QB especially with a #3 pick overall is suicidal. Take Defense in the first and if a Jake Locker, Mallet are there in the second or Christian Ponder is there in the third take him.
McD Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 You are only half right Einstein, they also lost because of their own defenses. A convenient part of the equation to leave out. One could say that Brady lost because of the Jets defense, but you could also say that Brady lost because of his own defense. In a team sport like football, offense and defense are not exclusive of one another. True... Brady (considered a Franchise QB) LOST to a superior D Sanchez (decent/solid QB) BEAT an avg/weak D Just a single incident to point out, but there it is.... I would have given Brady credit for being one of the best at seeing the field and adjusting/finding the open man. Today, he was missing open receivers that were jumping up and down and waving next to the 1st down yard marker. Apparently, being slammed to the FieldTurf a few times and run around the backfield like a headless chicken can have some effect on this skill. Yessir... and who do we need to beat to EVER sniff the playoffs? EXACTLY! Only an idiot would draft a QB in the 1st round, because you have to have a 1st round QB to win. You need Defense and a QB. It doesn't matter where the QB comes from. When the Bills choose at #3 there is absolutely no QB worth drafting at the position. Reaching for a QB especially with a #3 pick overall is suicidal. Take Defense in the first and if a Jake Locker, Mallet are there in the second or Christian Ponder is there in the third take him. This is exactly what I'm afraid of. Who knows... there might not be anybody worthy of the #3, and I've have no issues trading down (if we found a partner) and getting some extra picks to fill our numerous holes.
apuszczalowski Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I would say that the reason the Jets won yesterday is because of Revis/Cromartie shutting down Brady and making it impossible for him to get off passes. So I guess the only way to win is to draft DB's early! Theres no right or wrong way to build a team. But the one thing that is obvious is that the best teams all have franchise QBs and good defences. Right now the Bills have neither.
bbb Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Dumbest ever huh? Lol... you don't read these boards much do you? Honestly... The OP states that I think we get more impact at a D position at #3 than with Newton or Mallett. Hell, if the D player we need isn't there at #3, then trade the hell down, pick up the "savior" at 10-15 and get some extra picks (to use hopefully on D, TE or OL) I also mentioned a "franchise QB" and everyone ran off with a first round pick at QB... they conviniently leave out the fact that there a way more first round QB busts than their are that are worthy of that pick, but if they leave that out, it makes their arguments better, so whatever. We SUCK at stopping the run... SUCK at it. I don't care if Jesus was playing QB for us, when you give up 200+ yds on the ground for HALF OF YOUR GAMES, you will remain well below .500 Yeah, it's definitely not the dumbest ever, by far. I just picked that one to reply to. The thing is if Jesus was playing nose tackle, we'd still get killed. Now, if we can draft him and his 12 disciples, all in the third pick, I'm all for that! My only point really is that one QB makes up for a lot of other positions. You only get one pick at #3.....My best example is the '08 season. We won every time Trent played good. We lost every time he sucked or didn't play at all.
Bill4Life Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 So, down goes Manning, down goes Brees, down goes Flacco, down goes Vick, down goes Ryan, down goes Brady.... To all of you that think we NEED a QB at #3 this year (none worthy at #3), once again... here is a CLASSIC example of the need for a solid defense. This years defenses prove once again, that a top D is the tonic this team needs. It will give this team the attitude this team and city needs. You want to grab a QB in the third? Ok... no issues, but that better be after a selection of a DE/DT and a LB. Buddy... SOLIDIFY the D through the draft AND through FA. Don't bank on Merriman being "the man"... he's an unknown at this time. Go draft help, go pay the $$ for FA help... The O can use an RT an TE and some depth too... BUT... I hope you're paying attention this post season... D, D, D, D, D, D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So I suppose that Rodgers, Big Ben, Cutler and dare I say Sanchez are all Bums?? I would take any of those 4 to be the Bills future QB. I agree that a good defense wins championships, but a good QB gets you there. I have my reservations about selecting a qb with the #3 pick, But when you have your choice of 4 first round talents you have to take a chance. And there you have it...... Well said!! AMEN
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