McD Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 couldn't have said it better myself, although I still think you need a franchise QB but a good running game and defense are more important. If you look at who is left I would say each team considers their QB a franchise QB even if Sanchez has been off since the shoulder injury. 1. Dareus 2. Paea 3. Acho ... after that its all good. I'd be happy as HELL with that draft! Sanchez missed on as many throws as he hit today. And he would be licking his wounds if his defense didn't punch Brady in the vagina. PTR Almost poetic.... If the Jets didn't get all up in Brady's grill, NE would be moving on today. NE's D gave up 5 more yds a game than we did... Sanchez's win today was akin to him beating the Bills... Mark my words... NE will get their hands on some D this draft.
1B4IDie Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Here are your Top 10 QB's... Hmmm.. no Cutler, Roethlisberger, or Sanchez... Just because you were drafted in round one DOESN'T make you a "franchise QB". 1 Philip Rivers SD No playoffs 2 Peyton Manning IND Out of playoffs 3 Drew Brees NO Out of playoffs 4 Matt Schaub HOU No playoffs 5 Eli Manning NYG No playoffs 6 Carson Palmer CIN No playoffs 7 Aaron Rodgers GB Still in playoffs 8 Tom Brady NE Out of playoffs 9 Matt Ryan ATL Out of playoffs 10 Kyle Orton DEN No playoffs Here are your Top 10 D's... 1 San Diego Chargers No playoffs, QB better than Fitz 2 Pittsburgh Steelers Still in playoffs 3 New York Jets Still in playoffs 4 New Orleans Saints Out of playoffs 5 Green Bay Packers Still in playoffs 6 Miami Dolphins No playoffs, Fitz better 7 New York Giants No playoffs, QB not much better than Fitz 8 Minnesota Vikings No playoffs, QB sitaution a mess... I'd go with Fitz 9 Chicago Bears Still in playoffs 10 Baltimore Ravens Out of playoffs All 4 teams remaining = TOP 10 D! Fail may a$$! Still 4 1st round QBs are left. Still a fail. I don't know where you got your list from but here is the real regular season QB ratings: 1 Tom Brady NE 111 2 Philip Rivers SD 101.8 3 Aaron Rodgers GB 101.2 4 Michael Vick PHI 100.2 5 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 97 6 Josh Freeman TB 95.9 7 Joe Flacco BAL 93.6 8 Matt Cassel KC 93 9 Matt Schaub HOU 92 10 Peyton Manning IND 91.9 11 Matt Ryan ATL 91 12 Drew Brees NO 90.9 8/12 are 1st round picks 9/12 were picked in the first 32 picks Double Fail. 10/12 are playoff bound. Seems like QB rating is a better playoff indicator than defense ranking. Triple Fail Edited January 17, 2011 by Why So Serious?
McD Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 Still 4 1st round QBs are left. Still a fail. I don't know where you got your list from but here is the real regular season QB ratings: 1 Tom Brady NE 111 2 Philip Rivers SD 101.8 3 Aaron Rodgers GB 101.2 4 Michael Vick PHI 100.2 5 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 97 6 Josh Freeman TB 95.9 7 Joe Flacco BAL 93.6 8 Matt Cassel KC 93 9 Matt Schaub HOU 92 10 Peyton Manning IND 91.9 11 Matt Ryan ATL 91 12 Drew Brees NO 90.9 Double Fail. 10/12 are playoff bound. Seems like QB rating is a better indicator than defense ranking. Triple Fail Ha ha ha... Fail... why because YOU say so? So damned childish... Big flipping deal... hell, the Seahawks were playoff bound at 7-9... it's about WINNING THE BIG ONE brother... not just making the damned playoffs. You going to be ok with a Wild Card? Of all of the Top 12 QB's that you show only 2 are left. What's that %...16%?? Now, there are 4 of the Top 12 (why you grabbed 12 is beyond me... oh, yeah you were trying to fudge your numbers, but I digress....) D's still playing... that % is 32%. Last time I checked 32% was better than 16%... And "Roethlisraper" wouldn't be doing jack **** without a D and a running game. Seems like QB rating is a better playoff indicator than defense ranking. QB rating "can" be a sham and if you were a real fan, you'd know this. Brady has such a good QB rating because he doesn't throw much of anything past 6 yds, plus he has a helluva O line. Plus, you're again proving my point. You show 12 guys on there yet only 2 are left. However 4 of the top 12 D's are left. Of course you need more proof... so, you have 2 of the Top 5 QB's still playing for an impressive 40% way to go!! But... before you get too excited 4 of the Top 9 D's are still playing... that's 44%... again, the numbers don't lie... But... you should prob go re-read the OP again... because what I am trying to say is that WE NEED !@#$ING DEFENSE this draft!!! There is NO QB worth the #3!!!
1B4IDie Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Ha ha ha... Fail... why because YOU say so? So damned childish... Big flipping deal... hell, the Seahawks were playoff bound at 7-9... it's about WINNING THE BIG ONE brother... not just making the damned playoffs. You going to be ok with a Wild Card? Of all of the Top 12 QB's that you show only 2 are left. What's that %...16%?? Now, there are 4 of the Top 12 (why you grabbed 12 is beyond me... oh, yeah you were trying to fudge your numbers, but I digress....) D's still playing... that % is 32%. Last time I checked 32% was better than 16%... And "Roethlisraper" wouldn't be doing jack **** without a D and a running game. Why did you grab 10? There are 12 playoff teams. Its a fail because you were wrong about 1st round QBs left in the playoffs. Wrong about QB ratings. and wrong that a 1st round QB isn't a need for the Buffalo Bills. You can keep deluding yourself though.
McD Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 Why did you grab 10? There are 12 playoff teams. Its a fail because you were wrong about 1st round QBs left in the playoffs. Wrong about QB ratings. and wrong that a 1st round QB isn't a need for the Buffalo Bills. You can keep deluding yourself though. I'll stick to my post, I took Top 10 because... truly in the real world, it's all about the Top 10, just look at Letterman. Nno, actually I wasn't thinking or caring about the 12 playoff teams, was looking at stats and they were Top 10. I wont say I was wrong about ****. There is not a QB worthy of a top 3 pick... If the Bills find someone to trade down with and want to try their luck with Newton, or Mallett and pick up an additional 2nd, I'd be ok IF they could get their hands on some LB's and a DT that can play teh run and pass. After that they need a RT, TE and continue to pound D. No delusion there... but I see you like to argue for the sake of it... all good. Why did you grab 10? There are 12 playoff teams. Its a fail because you were wrong about 1st round QBs left in the playoffs. Wrong about QB ratings. and wrong that a 1st round QB isn't a need for the Buffalo Bills. You can keep deluding yourself though. Oh... and you ignored all of my %'s... how come? Facts are facts man... just because you ignore them doesn't make them untrue...
1B4IDie Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Oh... and you ignored all of my %'s... how come? Facts are facts man... just because you ignore them doesn't make them untrue... You mean like how you keep ignoring that all four QBs left in the playoffs were all 1st round picks and this whole thread is based on ignoring that fact?
BiggieScooby Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Due to our need for a LT, DE, DT, OLB, the Bills should draft a mid-round QB with "Brady" like intangibles and give Fitzpatrick 10 games in '11. Let's assume Fitz stays healthy but we manage 4 wins or less after 10 games. At that point put in the rookie. If Fitz goes .500 or better than allow him to fail. Once we are mathmatically eliminated I think you insert the rookie for the last 6 games or whenever we are out. Let's assume the rookie plays like Jimmy Clausen and we finish in the running again for Andrew Luck. We all know a team is built around the QB position. If we need to hit rock bottom in the 2011 season than I say do it. I am a Fitz fan, I think he could benefit from a better line, and a real TE. I think like a baseball pitcher he could work on the location of his pitches by excercising his arm and perfecting his technique in the offseason. While Fitz has a career 57% completion percentage the slightest improvement could mean the difference between 4-12 in '10 & 9-7 in '11, thus allowing him not to be Luck's mentor in 2012. Final Four (average age: 26.5 years old) 1) Pittsburgh (13-4) - Ben Roethlisberger Age 28- Height: 6-5 Weight: 241 - Born: Mar 2, 1982 - Lima, OH - College: Miami (OH) - Draft: 2004 - 1st round (11th pick) by the Pittsburgh Steelers 2)New York Jets (13-5)- Mark Sanchez Age 24 Height: 6-2 Weight: 225 Born: Nov 11, 1986 - Mission Viejo, CA College: USC Draft: 2009 - 1st round (5th pick) by the New York Jets 3) Chicago (12-5) - Jay Cutler Age 27 Height: 6-3 Weight: 233 Born: Apr 29, 1983 - Santa Claus, IN College: Vanderbilt Draft: 2006 - 1st round (11th pick) by the Denver Broncos 4) Green Bay (12-6) - Aaron Rodgers Age 27 Height: 6-2 Weight: 225 Born: Dec 2, 1983 - Chico, CA College: California Draft: 2005 - 1st round (24th pick) by the Green Bay Packers The Fallen (average age: 30.38 years old) 5) New England (14-3) - Tom Brady Age 33 Height: 6-4 Weight: 225 Born: Aug 3, 1977 - San Mateo, CA College: Michigan Draft: 2000 - 6th round (33rd pick) by the New England Patriots 6)Atlanta (13-4) - Matt Ryan Age 25 Height: 6-4 Weight: 213 Born: May 17, 1985 - Exton, PA College: Boston College Draft: 2008 - 1st round (3rd pick) by the Atlanta Falcons 7)Seatle (8-10) - Matt Hasselbeck Age 35 Height: 6-4 Weight: 225 Born: Sep 25, 1975 - Westwood, MA College: Boston College Draft: 1998 - 6th round (34th pick) by the Green Bay Packers 8)Baltimore (12-6) - Joe Flacco Age 26 Height: 6-6 Weight: 238 Born: Jan 16, 1985 - Audubon, NJ College: Delaware Draft: 2008 - 1st round (18th pick) by the Baltimore Ravens 9) Indianapolis (10-7) - Payton Manning Age 34 Height: 6-5 Weight: 230 Born: Mar 24, 1976 - New Orleans, LA College: Tennessee Draft: 1998 - 1st round (1st pick) by the Indianapolis Colts 10) Kansas City (10-7) - Matt Cassel Age 28 Height: 6-4 Weight: 230 Born: May 17, 1982 - Northridge, CA College: USC Draft: 2005 - 7th round (16th pick) by the New England Patriots 11) Philadelphia (10-7) - Michael Vick Age 30 Height: 6-0 Weight: 215 Born: Jun 26, 1980 - Newport News, VA College: Virginia Tech Draft: 2001 - 1st round (1st pick) by the Atlanta Falcons 12) New Orleans (10-7) - Drew Brees Age 32 Height: 6-0 Weight: 209 Born: Jan 15, 1979 - Austin, TX College: Purdue Draft: 2001 - 2nd round (1st pick) by the San Diego Chargers Summary 1st Round – 8 players (6 original team) (average age 27.63) (Super Bowl Record 3-1) 2nd Round – 1 player 1st pick (average age 32) (Super Bowl Record 1-0) 6th Round – 2 players 33rd & 34th pick (1 original team) (average age 34) (Super Bowl Record 3-2) 7th Round - 1 player 16th pick (average age 28) Edited January 17, 2011 by BiggieScooby
Boatdrinks Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I'll just tell you all 4 qb's in the conference championships are 1st rd picks...just saying. BINGO!!! Yes, defense is critical. But the most important position on the field is QB, and you can find great players on D all throughout the draft. Elite QB's tend to go in the first round. Fitz will start opening day next season. You don't have to start a guy right away because you took him in the first, or even the top ten. Heck, how many of our first rounders have started a game recently? Maybin? Spiller? Please. This team is a long way off. We can work on building a D, but that third pick needs to go to a QB with a chance to be elite. We've forgotten what it's like to even be in a playoff game around here. Don't look for a quick fix. Sanchez went to a team with some pretty great players already. A quote from one of the Pats said that Kyle Williams is our best player. That should tell you how lacking in star power this team is. Take a QB at 3 or trade down a couple spots and take your QB then. Focus on D the rest of the draft, and maybe a OT or a real TE.
NoSaint Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Do I need to spell everything all out for you? Seriously? We dont need to take a 1st round QB at #3... nobody is worth it there. Fitz is fine. The teams and the QB's there have their D to thank more than their QB's... THAT is my point, and has been. "Credible" defenses, lol... 3 of the teams left have Top 5 D's.... and the Bears were #9. Here are your Top 5 QB's... 1. Philip Rivers SD 4710 2. Peyton Manning IND 4700 3. Drew Brees NO 4620 4. Matt Schaub HOU 4370 5. Eli Manning NYG 4002 NONE of them are still in the playoffs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY HELL!!!! Someone ACTUALLY read the original post!! Lol.... whoo hoo, props to you bro!!!! When your D suck's and causes your O to have to play catch up and be flipping predictable as hell... it becomes a problem. Get a damned D, and you'll actually see the O improve (granted we get a RT)... Here are your Top 10 QB's... Hmmm.. no Cutler, Roethlisberger, or Sanchez... Just because you were drafted in round one DOESN'T make you a "franchise QB". 1 Philip Rivers SD No playoffs 2 Peyton Manning IND Out of playoffs 3 Drew Brees NO Out of playoffs 4 Matt Schaub HOU No playoffs 5 Eli Manning NYG No playoffs 6 Carson Palmer CIN No playoffs 7 Aaron Rodgers GB Still in playoffs 8 Tom Brady NE Out of playoffs 9 Matt Ryan ATL Out of playoffs 10 Kyle Orton DEN No playoffs Here are your Top 10 D's... 1 San Diego Chargers No playoffs, QB better than Fitz 2 Pittsburgh Steelers Still in playoffs 3 New York Jets Still in playoffs 4 New Orleans Saints Out of playoffs 5 Green Bay Packers Still in playoffs 6 Miami Dolphins No playoffs, Fitz better 7 New York Giants No playoffs, QB not much better than Fitz 8 Minnesota Vikings No playoffs, QB sitaution a mess... I'd go with Fitz 9 Chicago Bears Still in playoffs 10 Baltimore Ravens Out of playoffs All 4 teams remaining = TOP 10 D! Fail may a$$! Did you really bash qb rating as subjective then turn around and use yardage? Did we neglect to adjust for yards per game atleast? Maybe Vick, and big ben and rodgers would shoot up cause they missed a few games? Not to mention losing teams throw for more yards - you know, playing from behind and all. If you picked the top 10 qbs in the league to start a team with - rivers would be the only one out of the playoffs this year. Ironically they had the #1 defense most if not all year. You must have a big time qb, top 15 D, and a special teams that won't screw anything up.
Koufax Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 But again... ALL of the QB's remaining are playing with GREAT D's... Damn, do you people noit get it?!?! Yes you need a QB, BUT what I'm saying is that there isn't an Andrew Luck out there for us... Newton, Mallett... neither worthy of the #3 overall. GRAB SOME DAMNED D! "I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you understand that? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!" We need to get better at just about all of our 53 positions. I don't see a QB at #3 who will help us get better as a defensive player at #3, but that's because I find it a big stretch to imagine having one of these QBs as a top three player on our draft board based just on talent and expected NFL performance. Given that Fitz is playing well enough that only Luck would really move ahead of him for our opener, we would be drafting a project to start the next season on the bench and play who knows when. I would rather have an impact player ready to go on day 1, like Dareus or Fairley. If there were an impact QB available who we loved, I would take him. And neither of those choices would be based on thinking that good QBs have lost playoff games this year or teams that have won have good defenses.
Phil Hansen Forever Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 We need another BRUCE! A couple really fast, quick, agile DE's to put hair plug brady on his sissy ass butt.
Cornerville Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 While I agree. I'll just tell you all 4 qb's in the conference championships are 1st rd picks...just saying. Somewhere, someone in Kansas City is salivating over this comment
thewildrabbit Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 The Bills could have the best defensive talent in the NFL at every position....who is going to set up the defense and call the plays? Last time I looked Rex Ryan coaches the Jets, not the Bills
Green Lightning Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 "I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you understand that? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!" We need to get better at just about all of our 53 positions. I don't see a QB at #3 who will help us get better as a defensive player at #3, but that's because I find it a big stretch to imagine having one of these QBs as a top three player on our draft board based just on talent and expected NFL performance. Given that Fitz is playing well enough that only Luck would really move ahead of him for our opener, we would be drafting a project to start the next season on the bench and play who knows when. I would rather have an impact player ready to go on day 1, like Dareus or Fairley. If there were an impact QB available who we loved, I would take him. And neither of those choices would be based on thinking that good QBs have lost playoff games this year or teams that have won have good defenses. This.
Beerball Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Ha ha ha... Fail... why because YOU say so? So damned childish... Big flipping deal... hell, the Seahawks were playoff bound at 7-9... it's about WINNING THE BIG ONE brother... not just making the damned playoffs. You going to be ok with a Wild Card? Of all of the Top 12 QB's that you show only 2 are left. What's that %...16%?? Now, there are 4 of the Top 12 (why you grabbed 12 is beyond me... oh, yeah you were trying to fudge your numbers, but I digress....) D's still playing... that % is 32%. Last time I checked 32% was better than 16%... And "Roethlisraper" wouldn't be doing jack **** without a D and a running game. QB rating "can" be a sham and if you were a real fan, you'd know this. Brady has such a good QB rating because he doesn't throw much of anything past 6 yds, plus he has a helluva O line. Truth...70% of his completions are for less than 10 yards.
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Sanchez didn't throw any dumb passes today. Fitz makes 3 or 4 ill advised throws a game, that usually get picked off at the most inopportune times. Sanchez played great when he was on the field, he protected the ball like a good QB should. well when fitz has the type of D that Sanchez has to come on field when ya fail to convert maybe he will feel he doesn't need to do it all himself and can be a tad more conservative
section122 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Might be p*ssin in some peoples cheerios with this but... we have multiple years and drafts before the bills will be contending for anything. That is the time it will be neccesary to build up both the d and offense because neither are playoff caliber. Imo it doesn't matter what position this pick plays as much as they are a legit stud in the nfl because that's what #3 picks should do. It doesn't have to be d (although could be) it doesn't have to be a qb (although it could be) it has to be someone who produces period.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Still 4 1st round QBs are left. Still a fail. I don't know where you got your list from but here is the real regular season QB ratings: His is sorted by a statistic other than QB rating - passing yardage I think Step over to another thread and read a viewpoint that QB rating doesn't matter, all that matters is YPA, completion %, and third down conversion. I'm not saying that's my viewpoint (since both completion percentage and YPA are part of QB rating along with TD and INTs) It's a viewpoint with enough merit not to say QB rating is "real" and other metrics are not Look, WSS, no one seems to be arguing that a good QB is not necessary, or that good QB are more likely to be found in the 1st round than in other rounds. Maybe I missed it? Riddle me this: Something like 3/4 of the guys starting at the beginning of the season or 2/3 of the guys starting 1/2 way through the season are 1st round QB. When the playoffs started, the majority of those guys were sitting on the sofa, while the proportion of non-1st round to 1st round QB in the playoffs is about the same as it is in the league overall. Several other highly-touted 1st round QB sat down rather quickly, rookie and vet. What does that tell you? It tells me this: 1. Once you find a good QB, you've found a good QB; his draft status does not make him more or less likely to take you to the playoffs and keep you there 2. There must be other critical factors than the QB draft status which govern whether a team goes to the playoffs and playoff success. Strong defense, OL play, and superior coaching come to mind I could be wrong, but I don't think the OP's point was a good QB isn't needed. I think the OP's point was, once a team has a good QB, they are better off putting the other critical pieces in place than gunning for a GREAT, once-in-a-decade, franchise QB. Several arguably superior QB (Manning, Ryan, Vick, Brees) went home quickly, while several arguably lesser QB (Sanchez, Cutler) are still in the game. Why? Because their teams OVERALL proved superior.
bisonbrigade Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 The Bills will draft DE Dareus in the 1st, ILB Martez in the 2nd, and QB Christian Ponnder in the 3rd. Gailey is coaching the kid already, he has run the same style of offense that Gailey likes, qnd he is tthe most pro ready and he is mobile.
Dr. Fong Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I agree. It's nice to have both, but the more important thing is to have a dominant defense (built from the line up) and a solid offensive line. Without those things your franchise QB just looks like a bum. With those things any average QB starts to look promising.
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