Albany,n.y. Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Another clueless wonder... Rodgers is right now winning playoff games, what has he done BEFORE this year???? And, he would have been your what #4 QB?? Big deal... of course there will be some great QB's that move on, but I bet most would have thought Brady, , Manning, Brees, or Ryan would still be standing, BUT a solid D kicked their a$$... Right... GOTCHA.... GREAT point. I suppose NONE of the defensive players were first rounders.... good freaking grief!!!!!! Rodgers lost a shootout with a HOF QB last year when GB scored 45 points and lost 51-45, you ask what he's done before this year & you call someone else clueless Edited January 17, 2011 by Albany,n.y.
BuffOrange Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Indeed, Rodgers > Ryan and Big Rape > Flacco certainly prove that QB play is overrated. Good God this thread is bad.
McD Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 I'll throw this out to you yokels... Fitz, if given the same O-Line and D as the rest of the teams playing would be pretty equal to the task. I've never said that that those QB's weren't good and haven't helped their teams get to where they are now... I'm talking about OUR team... we have a QB... he's not superior, but for a guy to be playing what equates to his first, maybe second, full season (and behind the line he's had, and with the ****ty D, and suspect coaching staff), he's proven himself capable. What I'm saying is that you dont need to darft a QB in the first round... what round was Brady drafted in again... 6th. Sure, no ****... taking a guy early (IF HE PLAYS OUT... Leaf... Couch... Losman... Smith... etc... etc... etc) can pay dividends and help your team, but I'll take a damn draft full of D instead of betting the house on a QB, that if groomed properly, can be a solid leader for our team in 2014. I will guarntee that if we draft D properly and heavily you'll see a better return on our investment. Rodgers lost a shootout with a HOF QB last year when GB scored 45 points and lost 51-45, you ask what he's done before this year & you call someone else clueless Thanks for proving my point... a 51-45 score... GREAT DEFENSES there!! Indeed, Rodgers > Ryan and Big Rape > Flacco certainly prove that QB play is overrated. Good God this thread is bad. QB play is NOT overrated at all.... do you need to go re-read my original post??? I think Fitz is good and there is no need to draft a QB at #3... THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING (had to yell, so you would understand this time). We need D, D, D, D, D and more D... solidify that and we're NOT a 4-12 team... I guess you enjoyed getting run on time and time again?
flmike Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Best player available is the first filter in a draft. Next comes need. Put the two together when there's a toss-up or if you are loaded at the BPA position (meaning you have 2 pro-bowlers there).
McD Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 Best player available is the first filter in a draft. Next comes need. Put the two together when there's a toss-up or if you are loaded at the BPA position (meaning you have 2 pro-bowlers there). Something tells me we'll be taking a CB or WR then........
Mr. WEO Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I'll throw this out to you yokels... Fitz, if given the same O-Line and D as the rest of the teams playing would be pretty equal to the task. I've never said that that those QB's weren't good and haven't helped their teams get to where they are now... I'm talking about OUR team... we have a QB... he's not superior, but for a guy to be playing what equates to his first, maybe second, full season (and behind the line he's had, and with the ****ty D, and suspect coaching staff), he's proven himself capable. What I'm saying is that you dont need to darft a QB in the first round... what round was Brady drafted in again... 6th. Sure, no ****... taking a guy early (IF HE PLAYS OUT... Leaf... Couch... Losman... Smith... etc... etc... etc) can pay dividends and help your team, but I'll take a damn draft full of D instead of betting the house on a QB, that if groomed properly, can be a solid leader for our team in 2014. I will guarntee that if we draft D properly and heavily you'll see a better return on our investment. Thanks for proving my point... a 51-45 score... GREAT DEFENSES there!! QB play is NOT overrated at all.... do you need to go re-read my original post??? I think Fitz is good and there is no need to draft a QB at #3... THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING (had to yell, so you would understand this time). We need D, D, D, D, D and more D... solidify that and we're NOT a 4-12 team... I guess you enjoyed getting run on time and time again? Baltimore has a great defense and was spanking Big Ben pretty good yesterday. Yet he and his offense came back and won that game in the second half. This thread has gone up in flames, brother.
Buckeye Eric Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 While I agree. I'll just tell you all 4 qb's in the conference championships are 1st rd picks...just saying. How many 1st round 'franchise' QBs have *not * made it to the conference finals over the past 10 years? 19 out of 20?
mrags Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Although I think your post has more holes than Swiss cheese I will agree with the fact that the final 4 teams available all have I credible defenses. Big Ben and Rodgers are good to great QBs but they also happen to be on great teams as well. IMO it's more of a fact that you really have to have a good to great overall team if you want to even think about making it deep into the playoffs. I think it's also very funny that every team left has incredible shut down CBs/DBs and yet we all complain that we can't continue to get better by always picking this position early and often. The teams that are left are very stacked in the secondary, among other positions. But I hope it just points to the fact that we need impact players on our team. Regardless of position.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Baltimore has a great defense and was spanking Big Ben pretty good yesterday. Yet he and his offense came back and won that game in the second half. This thread has gone up in flames, brother. Um, maybe it's gone up in flames, I don't think your example quite ignites them? Steelers also-strong D forced 2 fumbles and an INT in the 2nd half. Steelers offense took over on Balt 23, 25, and 23 yd line, result 2 TD and 1 FG. A strong defense producing a short field time after time is a huge help to winning. The Balt. offense didn't need to be more productive, they just needed to hang onto the *@##! ball.
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 What are you talking about, all the remaining teams have franchise QBs as well.
Mr. WEO Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Um, maybe it's gone up in flames, I don't think your example quite ignites them? Steelers also-strong D forced 2 fumbles and an INT in the 2nd half. Steelers offense took over on Balt 23, 25, and 23 yd line, result 2 TD and 1 FG. A strong defense producing a short field time after time is a huge help to winning. The Balt. offense didn't need to be more productive, they just needed to hang onto the *@##! ball. The Steelers D spotted Balt a bunch of points in the first half. Two great D's. Game won by superior offense.
NoSaint Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Although I think your post has more holes than Swiss cheese I will agree with the fact that the final 4 teams available all have I credible defenses. Big Ben and Rodgers are good to great QBs but they also happen to be on great teams as well. IMO it's more of a fact that you really have to have a good to great overall team if you want to even think about making it deep into the playoffs. I think it's also very funny that every team left has incredible shut down CBs/DBs and yet we all complain that we can't continue to get better by always picking this position early and often. The teams that are left are very stacked in the secondary, among other positions. But I hope it just points to the fact that we need impact players on our team. Regardless of position. Ding ding ding - winner! That's why you go bpa, and give minor consideration to need.Outside of qb (whether it be you already having one or desperately needing one) always go bpa. This means that even if you already have a good to great player at a position, you need as many as you can. Between injuries and free agency you can never have too much talent at a position.
1B4IDie Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) McD would have a point if there were 0/4 1st round QBs however there are 4/4 1st round QBs left in the playoffs and better yet 6/8 1st round QBs that played this weekend. The non 1st round QBs were 0 for 2. "but but but it's but it's all about the D because i've clearly proven its not about 1st round QBs it's about D. Why don't you understand!" Biggest fail of 2011 so far. (update 8/12 QBs in the playlets were 1st round picks, with non 1st round picks being 1-4 and 1 of the 4 non 1st round picks was the #32 pick in a 31 picks a round draft so yeah it's all about the D) Edited January 17, 2011 by Why So Serious?
sllib olaffub Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I think just about every team needs a good QB. Only once a generation defenses are good enough to shut down a team so that even a mediocre QB can win. I happen to think Aaron Rodgers looks like the best QB in football. He's fast, has a quick release, is deadly accurate, and can throw the ball anywhere. Not only does he do all that, but he's really elusive, he reads defenses great - the guy is the total package. If you can get a great QB like that - you grab him. Great DE's and LT's are also so rare that you grab them if you can, because you'll never get one via F.A. So, in our case, is there a great D-lineman, QB, or LT available at 3? I would bet there is only a potentially great player at one position sitting at 3 (if the corner is that good, it would be tough, but I still think that if the D-lineman is close and definitely going to be great, then for us you have to solidify the D-line first), and that is who we need to get. When I look at this draft, and at this year's F.A., I think this: 1st pick: D-line 2nd pick: ILB or D-line 3rd-4th round: QB, TE, LB Rest of draft on BPA Free Angency this year will allow us to get a good RT if we feel we need one (I hope they do). Atlanta's looked perfect. There will be plenty of O-line F.A.'s. There will be LB F.A.'s, too. The only position that looks like we'll have to wait on is QB - unless there is a daimond (and there will be some potential stars - a few - in the 3rd and 4th round) or in F.A. - like Vince Young, Donovan McNabb, or Kolb. Personally, Kolb is the only one I'd like of that bunch, although Donovan would be o.k. for a two year contract, but I think Fitz is probably about as good there. But, Kolb would be nice, only he's not worth a 1st, so who knows...
BuffOrange Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 QB play is NOT overrated at all.... do you need to go re-read my original post??? I think Fitz is good and there is no need to draft a QB at #3... THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING (had to yell, so you would understand this time). We need D, D, D, D, D and more D... solidify that and we're NOT a 4-12 team... I guess you enjoyed getting run on time and time again? I get it now. Defense is important (no kidding). And our defense would be better if we hadn't drafted useless losers like Whitner, Maybin, McKelvin, and Puzz. Double no kidding. Why did this need a new thread? I know we're used to seeing our offense be dead last or 2nd to last in the league , but just because they upgraded to "only as bad as our defense" (which the stats prove) doesn't mean they were good, or even average.
Green Lightning Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 What are you talking about, all the remaining teams have franchise QBs as well. Sanchez is not close to an elite QB and a great D and awesome running game was all that was needed. The OP's point was draft D and I agree.
Big Turk Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 So, down goes Manning, down goes Brees, down goes Flacco, down goes Vick, down goes Ryan, down goes Brady.... To all of you that think we NEED a QB at #3 this year (none worthy at #3), once again... here is a CLASSIC example of the need for a solid defense. This years defenses prove once again, that a top D is the tonic this team needs. It will give this team the attitude this team and city needs. You want to grab a QB in the third? Ok... no issues, but that better be after a selection of a DE/DT and a LB. Buddy... SOLIDIFY the D through the draft AND through FA. Don't bank on Merriman being "the man"... he's an unknown at this time. Go draft help, go pay the $$ for FA help... The O can use an RT an TE and some depth too... BUT... I hope you're paying attention this post season... D, D, D, D, D, D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Over and over again this has proven to be false in most cases...something like 14 of the last 18 superbowls have been won by teams with Pro Bowl or better caliber QBs...the NFL is a passing league. Good defenses help a lot, but unless your defense is all world, you aren't winning the super bowl with it if you don't have a QB. Roethlesberger and Rodgers are 2 pretty freaking good QBs and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them squaring off in the SB...
McD Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Although I think your post has more holes than Swiss cheese I will agree with the fact that the final 4 teams available all have I credible defenses. Big Ben and Rodgers are good to great QBs but they also happen to be on great teams as well. IMO it's more of a fact that you really have to have a good to great overall team if you want to even think about making it deep into the playoffs. I think it's also very funny that every team left has incredible shut down CBs/DBs and yet we all complain that we can't continue to get better by always picking this position early and often. The teams that are left are very stacked in the secondary, among other positions. But I hope it just points to the fact that we need impact players on our team. Regardless of position. Do I need to spell everything all out for you? Seriously? We dont need to take a 1st round QB at #3... nobody is worth it there. Fitz is fine. The teams and the QB's there have their D to thank more than their QB's... THAT is my point, and has been. "Credible" defenses, lol... 3 of the teams left have Top 5 D's.... and the Bears were #9. Here are your Top 5 QB's... 1. Philip Rivers SD 4710 2. Peyton Manning IND 4700 3. Drew Brees NO 4620 4. Matt Schaub HOU 4370 5. Eli Manning NYG 4002 NONE of them are still in the playoffs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sanchez is not close to an elite QB and a great D and awesome running game was all that was needed. The OP's point was draft D and I agree. HOLY HELL!!!! Someone ACTUALLY read the original post!! Lol.... whoo hoo, props to you bro!!!! I get it now. Defense is important (no kidding). And our defense would be better if we hadn't drafted useless losers like Whitner, Maybin, McKelvin, and Puzz. Double no kidding. Why did this need a new thread? I know we're used to seeing our offense be dead last or 2nd to last in the league , but just because they upgraded to "only as bad as our defense" (which the stats prove) doesn't mean they were good, or even average. When your D suck's and causes your O to have to play catch up and be flipping predictable as hell... it becomes a problem. Get a damned D, and you'll actually see the O improve (granted we get a RT)... McD would have a point if there were 0/4 1st round QBs however there are 4/4 1st round QBs left in the playoffs and better yet 6/8 1st round QBs that played this weekend. The non 1st round QBs were 0 for 2. "but but but it's but it's all about the D because i've clearly proven its not about 1st round QBs it's about D. Why don't you understand!" Biggest fail of 2011 so far. (update 8/12 QBs in the playlets were 1st round picks, with non 1st round picks being 1-4 and 1 of the 4 non 1st round picks was the #32 pick in a 31 picks a round draft so yeah it's all about the D) Here are your Top 10 QB's... Hmmm.. no Cutler, Roethlisberger, or Sanchez... Just because you were drafted in round one DOESN'T make you a "franchise QB". 1 Philip Rivers SD No playoffs 2 Peyton Manning IND Out of playoffs 3 Drew Brees NO Out of playoffs 4 Matt Schaub HOU No playoffs 5 Eli Manning NYG No playoffs 6 Carson Palmer CIN No playoffs 7 Aaron Rodgers GB Still in playoffs 8 Tom Brady NE Out of playoffs 9 Matt Ryan ATL Out of playoffs 10 Kyle Orton DEN No playoffs Here are your Top 10 D's... 1 San Diego Chargers No playoffs, QB better than Fitz 2 Pittsburgh Steelers Still in playoffs 3 New York Jets Still in playoffs 4 New Orleans Saints Out of playoffs 5 Green Bay Packers Still in playoffs 6 Miami Dolphins No playoffs, Fitz better 7 New York Giants No playoffs, QB not much better than Fitz 8 Minnesota Vikings No playoffs, QB sitaution a mess... I'd go with Fitz 9 Chicago Bears Still in playoffs 10 Baltimore Ravens Out of playoffs All 4 teams remaining = TOP 10 D! Fail may a$$! Edited January 17, 2011 by McD
PromoTheRobot Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Uhhhh....Sanchez was the 5th overall pick and had 3 TD passes today. I think the Jets would consider him a franchise QB. Sanchez missed on as many throws as he hit today. And he would be licking his wounds if his defense didn't punch Brady in the vagina. PTR
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 So, down goes Manning, down goes Brees, down goes Flacco, down goes Vick, down goes Ryan, down goes Brady.... To all of you that think we NEED a QB at #3 this year (none worthy at #3), once again... here is a CLASSIC example of the need for a solid defense. This years defenses prove once again, that a top D is the tonic this team needs. It will give this team the attitude this team and city needs. You want to grab a QB in the third? Ok... no issues, but that better be after a selection of a DE/DT and a LB. Buddy... SOLIDIFY the D through the draft AND through FA. Don't bank on Merriman being "the man"... he's an unknown at this time. Go draft help, go pay the $$ for FA help... The O can use an RT an TE and some depth too... BUT... I hope you're paying attention this post season... D, D, D, D, D, D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! couldn't have said it better myself, although I still think you need a franchise QB but a good running game and defense are more important. If you look at who is left I would say each team considers their QB a franchise QB even if Sanchez has been off since the shoulder injury. 1. Dareus 2. Paea 3. Acho ... after that its all good.
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