McD Posted January 23, 2011 Author Posted January 23, 2011 here are one man's top rated defenses: (all of the Top 4 are still playing) http://fantasysource.sportingnews.com/football/experts/freeview/brad-pinkerton/2011-01-20/early-2011-ranks-dst Awesome stuff!
Stormin Norman Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 I work with a few die hard Jest and Pats fans, and we were analyzing the dismantling of New England by the Jest. Tom Brady looked like Todd Collins under center (to my utter joy) and Manning was held in check the week before. I recounted to these division rival fans how the glory Bills had a prolific offense for several years, but typically a mid-range to lower-third ranked defense (remember Walt Corey?). In each of the four Super Bowls, a stronger opponent defense shackled our offense, but our defense struggled to do the same. (By the way, I will not argue this way regarding our first loss to the Cowboys --- no team would overcome nine turnovers in a championship game). Against the Giants, OJ Anderson pounded us unmercifully just before and just after halftime. We had something like a 39 to 21 minute deficit in time of possession. Against the 'Skins, Washington's offensive line took over from the middle of the second quarter to the end of the game. The last Super Bowl against Dallas was closer than people remember, but our defense began to wilt in the fourth quarter. Time and again, the teams playing the best defense get to the championship game, and they usually win it. The offense needs big plays (about 3-5 per game), but it's the defense that determines who takes home the Lombardi trophy. The Jest are proving this. The Giants beat the undefeated Patriots in the Super Bowl after New England turned the NFL record book upside down during the season. During the playoffs, high-scoring, high-yardage offenses get humbled by great defenses. Then the defense from the high scoring team doesn't perform well enough because they're accustomed to playing with a 14 to 17 point lead. My point: we need to draft DEFENSE. Yes, you need a very good quarterback to make a run in the playoffs. But it comes down to the better defense almost ALWAYS in the playoffs.
hondo in seattle Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 I've never bought the old saw that Defense wins games. Let's make it into a logical argument: Defense wins games. My Offense will overpower your Defense so your defense won't win the game. Therefore Offense wins games. It's best to see a game as three battles: Our O against their D. Our D against their O. Our ST versus their ST. Ideally we need to win all three contests. If we win but two, we probably win the game.
Big Turk Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 I work with a few die hard Jest and Pats fans, and we were analyzing the dismantling of New England by the Jest. Tom Brady looked like Todd Collins under center (to my utter joy) and Manning was held in check the week before. I recounted to these division rival fans how the glory Bills had a prolific offense for several years, but typically a mid-range to lower-third ranked defense (remember Walt Corey?). In each of the four Super Bowls, a stronger opponent defense shackled our offense, but our defense struggled to do the same. (By the way, I will not argue this way regarding our first loss to the Cowboys --- no team would overcome nine turnovers in a championship game). Against the Giants, OJ Anderson pounded us unmercifully just before and just after halftime. We had something like a 39 to 21 minute deficit in time of possession. Against the 'Skins, Washington's offensive line took over from the middle of the second quarter to the end of the game. The last Super Bowl against Dallas was closer than people remember, but our defense began to wilt in the fourth quarter. Time and again, the teams playing the best defense get to the championship game, and they usually win it. The offense needs big plays (about 3-5 per game), but it's the defense that determines who takes home the Lombardi trophy. The Jest are proving this. The Giants beat the undefeated Patriots in the Super Bowl after New England turned the NFL record book upside down during the season. During the playoffs, high-scoring, high-yardage offenses get humbled by great defenses. Then the defense from the high scoring team doesn't perform well enough because they're accustomed to playing with a 14 to 17 point lead. My point: we need to draft DEFENSE. Yes, you need a very good quarterback to make a run in the playoffs. But it comes down to the better defense almost ALWAYS in the playoffs. Actually QBs win championships...this world view needed to die out in the '70s or '80s. Yes, good or even great defensive teams certainly help their case, but in 15 of the last 18 years, the winners have had very good or great QBs playing for them. Defense helps, but as the Jets are going to find out when they can't run and Mark Sanchez gets exposed as the below average to barely average QB he really is, you better have someone that can play QB...unless your defense is Baltimore Ravens 2000 good...and virtually none are...
lets_go_bills Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Aaron Rodgers wins championships. Lol. This guy is on fire.
Bangarang Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Aaron Rodgers wins championships. Lol. This guy is on fire. God Mode activated.
KD in CA Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Aaron Rodgers wins championships. Lol. This guy is on fire. That was a pretty impressive drive. The Packers have definitely looked like the best team in the league for the past month or so.
Dorkington Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 A championship team has: - A solid and or great offense - A solid and or great defense - A solid and or great special teams - A solid and or great coaching staff --- How many of those do the Bills have? Yeah.... ...
McD Posted January 23, 2011 Author Posted January 23, 2011 I've never bought the old saw that Defense wins games. Let's make it into a logical argument: Defense wins games. My Offense will overpower your Defense so your defense won't win the game. Therefore Offense wins games. It's best to see a game as three battles: Our O against their D. Our D against their O. Our ST versus their ST. Ideally we need to win all three contests. If we win but two, we probably win the game. Lol... this is "logical"? What if my Defense overpowers your Offense? Now where is your arguement? Of course there's more than O vs D. I think a fair breakout would be 40% O, 40% D and 20% ST, if you want to just look at on the field variables. A championship team has: - A solid and or great offense - A solid and or great defense - A solid and or great special teams - A solid and or great coaching staff --- How many of those do the Bills have? Yeah.... ... Lots of hole there... LOTS! Again... this wasn't supposed to be an O vs D thread. It's commonly known that you need playmakers on both sides of the ball and need to be balanced with very good overall offenses, defenses and Special Teams. I feel we're pretty good at QB, not great and there's no QB to take at #3. We have gaping holes on D though... GAPING! That's wher we need to focus our sights on the draft. We either stay at #3 and pick up a Fairley/Bowers/Dareus, or if they can trade back and get additional picks and still get their savior at QB, that's ok too... but... hit the D as much as you can through FA and the draft!
whodat Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 To somewhere in this multi layered thread to which this applies, I felt a sudden compulsion to respond after watching franchise qbs in action. If how a player performs in big games is a factor in how they are viewed than if Jay Cutler = Franchise QB Caleb Hanie > Jay Cutler Ryan Fitzpatrick => Caleb Hanie Ryan Fitzpatrick = Franchise QB Draft defense, Acquire more defense in FA, Improve defense side coaching √(did that) playoffs next year.
Bangarang Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 To somewhere in this multi layered thread to which this applies, I felt a sudden compulsion to respond after watching franchise qbs in action. If how a player performs in big games is a factor in how they are viewed than if Jay Cutler = Franchise QB Caleb Hanie > Jay Cutler Ryan Fitzpatrick => Caleb Hanie Ryan Fitzpatrick = Franchise QB Draft defense, Acquire more defense in FA, Improve defense side coaching √(did that) playoffs next year. You're logic after watching Hanie playing for half of a game is terrible.
McD Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 Lol... I think the point is sooo many people keep yapping about Cutler is a franchise QB, but he couldn't do anything against the Packers, and Hanie comes in and almost pulls it out.
whodat Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 You're logic after watching Hanie playing for half of a game is terrible. Oh really based on your say so. Your unexpressed reasoning is impressive and very logical to you maybe. So I throw it back at you. Your statement is a blank page.
Adam Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Oh really based on your say so. Your unexpressed reasoning is impressive and very logical to you maybe. So I throw it back at you. Your statement is a blank page. Tabula Rasa?
Ramius Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Lol... I think the point is sooo many people keep yapping about Cutler is a franchise QB, but he couldn't do anything against the Packers, and Hanie comes in and almost pulls it out. So your point is that the team with the franchise QB (Rodgers) beat the team without one (Cutler). That flies in the face of your factless, baseless, asinine original argument.
McD Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 So your point is that the team with the franchise QB (Rodgers) beat the team without one (Cutler). That flies in the face of your factless, baseless, asinine original argument. Not really since the better D won, AND the franchise QB needed a DEFENSIVE TD to win... PLUS... a no name QB came in and did what the "supposed franchise QB" couldn't... HENCE my original statement about the NEED for a franchise QB. Anything else out of you?
Adam Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Not really since the better D won, AND the franchise QB needed a DEFENSIVE TD to win... PLUS... a no name QB came in and did what the "supposed franchise QB" couldn't... HENCE my original statement about the NEED for a franchise QB. Anything else out of you? I'd like to get a franchise QB, but I am not sure any of the supposed first round guys will be one. I'd take Andrew Luck in a heartbeat, but not the other guys. Only franchise QB playing today is Rothlisbuerger. The other three are very overrated
McD Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) I'd like to get a franchise QB, but I am not sure any of the supposed first round guys will be one. I'd take Andrew Luck in a heartbeat, but not the other guys. Only franchise QB playing today is Rothlisbuerger. The other three are very overrated I agree with the exception that I would say Rodgers is a franchise QB too. Funny thing is... I've been saying the SAME thing you just said this whole thread, but people just dont want to see it. Edited January 24, 2011 by McD
whodat Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) I wouldn’t mind drafting one of the top 2 qbs but not at the expense of losing out on what I feel are defense changing impact players, Reggie White and Bruce Smith types. We have a guy we can win with in Fitz. We have many things in place on offense. We don’t on D and where we pick, we have the opportunity to fill those needs. The point I was making before was none of these QBs are as impactful as everyone seems to thing and the playoffs are the proof of the pudding. Sanchez qb rating in this game was 102.5. Roethlisberger was 35.5. I was surprised by the actual numbers. Big Ben made a lot of big plays. But in this game, it was running, defense and game management that won the day. In the GB-Chicago game little known 3rd year undrafted qb out of Colorado St. who came into the game as the team’s 3rd stringer considerably outperformed Cutler and even Rodgers (perhaps the best qb in the game) in the second half and turned a one sided defensive struggle into a nail biter. I’m not saying you can win with average talent or less at the key qb position. But you see all these teams drafting in search of the next Brady or Manning. Most discover as Marv Levy did just because you covet the skill set of a player like Polamalu doesn’t mean those type skills will show up in the safety you decide to draft early (Whitner). They rarely do. The Jets took Sanchez 5 or 6 in round 1 and I dare to say if he doesn’t remind me more of our Fitz. They will win with their guy and we will win with Fitz. Give me my defense. Edited January 24, 2011 by whodat
NoSaint Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I think you need both. To say it's D or qb is silly. You need d and a qb. And you saw that today. And for those that love Hanie- it's a half a game against a defense that had no tape on him all week, and changed it's style of play to prevent instead of pressure. He made some throws and made fatal mistakes, just like you'd expect.
Recommended Posts