Whitner coming un-hinged?

[The Big Cat]

That's heavy brother. Well said.

 

Just doin' my part!

 

Thank you. I am not a huge Whitner fan, but he is clearly a good player with a good work ethic. Is he one

of the top 2-3 safeties in the league? Probably not, but the team could do far worse. They should keep

him if his salary demands are to be paid like a good starting safety. If he insists on top 3 money, then they

have to make the business decision about whether to pay him that or not. But if they don't re-sign him,

they'll have yet another hole to fill on an already poor defense.

 

Regarding the obnoxious smart-a$$ put downs that a small number of people throw around at him and

others around here, it is absolutely shameful. These guys are all professional athletes and are very talented.

Even the very worst of them are still great athletes. Most of them work and play very hard. They don't deserve

the crap flung at them by a few around here. To be clear, I am not saying it is out of bounds to criticize a

player or coach or even to suggest that someone needs to be replaced, but some around here make Jerry

Sullivan sound like the Pope. To those people: sharpen your writing skills and formulate well-thought-out posts

with fair and balanced analyses rather than sarcastic rants that simply boil down to "he sucks because I said he does".

 

Says the guy with the ALWAYS exquisite margins!

 

I think if Whitner didn't so regularly get beat by tight ends, he'd have FAR fewer critics out there in Bills Nation. Unfortunately, he does get beat...a lot...and often in plain sight: for a touchdown for a long play on third down, etc. So the ire he absorbs--knee jerk though it may be--isn't necessarily unwarranted.

[Erik]

Kid just needs to grow up.

[DrDawkinstein]

All I need to see in these Whitner threads is the first comparison to Ed Reed and I know it's not worth joining the discussion since the posters have an obvious lack of basic football knowledge.

 

Strong Safety and Free Safety are two completely different positions, with different assignments, roles, and expectations.

 

It's the equivalent of comparing Demetrius Bell to Jeff Saturday.

 

Instead, why dont we try to find other Strong Safeties that play in a 3-4 with almost NO front 7 presence, and we'll see how they compare?

[The Big Cat]

I agree with you somewhat, Big Cat.

 

I am not anti-Donte but I think the Twitter thing is a revealing glance into his psyche. I don't think he is helping his cause by being (take your pick) a diva, a drama queen, needy, insecure.

 

There are lots of players who are or have been in an equivalent position and have done a much better job of handling the situation.

 

Basically he can do one of three things:

 

1) What he is already doing.

2) Putting a positive spin on things.

3) Saying nothing at all.

Donte really isn't accomplishing anything by his Tweets and I think he's turning public opinion away from himself so in my opinion, he does really need to shut it down. I think most people are perceiving his tweets as whiny and self-pitying. In spite of the fact that I generally like Whitner, that's the way I perceive them.

 

Well, you may agree with me "somewhat," but I agree with this COMPLETELY!

[Big Turk]

mornin' message to Buffalo Bills fans..."Be careful what u wish for!"...Good day

7:42am via Twitter for BlackBerry®

 

Alot of what I do/did kept our ENTIRE secondary together.....

7:53am via Twitter for BlackBerry®

 

What is he referring to? The fact he kept the secondary from making any plays on the ball this year? The fact he turned Jairus Byrd into a non-factor when he was a pro-bowler last year win 9 INTs? The fact that he allowed the other players to not even be in the TV screen as opposing QBs kept completing easy passes to wide open receivers?

We wish he would be an impact player like Troy Polamalu or Bob Sanders. At best he is a decent tackling safety that only makes plays that come to him and has little to any effect on the outcome of games, other than negative ones when he allows TE's to smoke him. We are wanting a game changer, and he is not it.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just doin' my part!

 

 

 

Says the guy with the ALWAYS exquisite margins!

 

I think if Whitner didn't so regularly get beat by tight ends, he'd have FAR fewer critics out there in Bills Nation. Unfortunately, he does get beat...a lot...and often in plain sight: for a touchdown for a long play on third down, etc. So the ire he absorbs--knee jerk though it may be--isn't necessarily unwarranted.

 

 

But I thought it was POZ that always gets beat by Tight Ends? I think we need to figure out WHO exactly should be covering TEs since this is the common knock on both defenders.

 

I dont know much about Edwards and his defense, but I dont think he is using the MLB and SS to double cover the TEs...

 

Id also like to know how many Strong Safeties are asked to cover, as their usual first priority is supporting the run. I dont remember Henry Jones covering many people. But I could be wrong.

[Thoner7]

I dont wanna see our best safety walk in FA.

 

With that said, lets resign George Wilson and show Whitner the door

[DrDawkinstein]

I dont wanna see our best safety walk in FA.

 

With that said, lets resign George Wilson and show Whitner the door

 

Then who is playing Strong Safety?

[EastRochBillsfan]

Wouldn't you come unhinged if you were a safety and had to watch Polamalu & Reed show you how a real safety plays the game?

 

THIS, made me laugh. but....see below.

 

I cant say he's wrong. I dont agree with him feeling he needs to defend himself to the "fans", but after 6 years of getting constantly hated on by a group of people you are busting your butt for... I imagine it can become frustrating.

 

He's right that he kept our Secondary together. Arguably the best part of our defense, Whitner has played any position theyve asked him to, and that has turned out to be EVERY position (SS, FS, CB). Most Strong Safeties wouldnt be able to do that. Has he played them all at a Pro Bowl level? Certainly not. But he never once complained about scheme or position or coaching or anything. He has been a good soldier for this organization and should be re-signed to a decent contract.

 

Now, I dont think he should get the $7-8mil a year he is probably asking for. But if this team is serious about building, you have to find ways to keep players like Whitner and then, worst case, look to add talent around him or replace him with better talent down the road. But you cant keep letting players walk or the cycle will be never ending.

Most definitely agree with all of this.

 

I agree with just about everything said in this thread. I'm really disappointed in Whitner's incessant chest pumping and self-promotion. To me, his online behavior indicates weakness. I know this is in no way an original idea round these parts, but the reality as we perceive it does seem to contradict the reality Donte advocates via twitter. And so long as he's pleading to the fans he's doing himself a disservice. As we all know, perceived reality IS reality.

 

Shut up, Donte.

This is a big part of his problem. He just won't shut up. I can't stand twitter.

 

Looks to me like he reads the Bills fan boards.

 

PTR

I'd be leaving if I were him if I read this board. it's hard sometimes just being a fan and reading this board. I can only imagine how it would make a player feel.

 

 

Thank you. I am not a huge Whitner fan, but he is clearly a good player with a good work ethic. Is he one

of the top 2-3 safeties in the league? Probably not, but the team could do far worse. They should keep

him if his salary demands are to be paid like a good starting safety. If he insists on top 3 money, then they

have to make the business decision about whether to pay him that or not. But if they don't re-sign him,

they'll have yet another hole to fill on an already poor defense.

 

Regarding the obnoxious smart-a$$ put downs that a small number of people throw around at him and

others around here, it is absolutely shameful. These guys are all professional athletes and are very talented.

Even the very worst of them are still great athletes. Most of them work and play very hard. They don't deserve

the crap flung at them by a few around here. To be clear, I am not saying it is out of bounds to criticize a

player or coach or even to suggest that someone needs to be replaced, but some around here make Jerry

Sullivan sound like the Pope. To those people: sharpen your writing skills and formulate well-thought-out posts

with fair and balanced analyses rather than sarcastic rants that simply boil down to "he sucks because I said he does".

And YES

[Thoner7]

All I need to see in these Whitner threads is the first comparison to Ed Reed and I know it's not worth joining the discussion since the posters have an obvious lack of basic football knowledge.

 

Strong Safety and Free Safety are two completely different positions, with different assignments, roles, and expectations.

 

It's the equivalent of comparing Demetrius Bell to Jeff Saturday.

 

Instead, why dont we try to find other Strong Safeties that play in a 3-4 with almost NO front 7 presence, and we'll see how they compare?

 

Dude, thats not true at all. Most of the time the two position are 100% interchangable, this was very true last season for us in the cover two. In a two deep look, when the TE would go in motion and flop the strongside of the field to the weak side, your safeties dont flop sides of the field also, they simply change their roles, essentially going from the SS to the FS.

 

But, even if I cannot convince you, what about when Whitner DID play FS? Last year when Byrd was out and GW was in, Whitner played FS, When B Scott was in he was at FS. in 2008 he was teh starting FS the whole season IIRC. He didnt make plays at either position,.

 

Then who is playing Strong Safety?

 

George Wilson

[bklnpete]

It's so easy to diss Donte, to compare him to the elite safeties in the league where he (and most every other safety in the league) obviously doesn't measure up. I can't hate the guy, he is what he is and what he lacks in pure football talent he at least attempts to make up for by playing hard on every down. It's not his fault he was drafted in the 8th spot and now has to live up to first-round expectations.

[Thoner7]

And again - why doesn't anyone think we can do better than Donte? I swear he must have allowed, on average, over a TD catch per game this year. Thats HORRIBLE

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

mornin' message to Buffalo Bills fans..."Be careful what u wish for!"...Good day

7:42am via Twitter for BlackBerry®

 

Alot of what I do/did kept our ENTIRE secondary together.....

7:53am via Twitter for BlackBerry®

My assumption is that these messages aren't unprovoked, in other words Bills fans are tweeting him telling him that he sucks etc.

 

Maybe one of the upcoming free agent players Merriman has already "spoken" to regarding the Bills is San Diego SS Eric Weddle.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson

[QCity]

Instead, why dont we try to find other Strong Safeties that play in a 3-4 with almost NO front 7 presence, and we'll see how they compare?

You said it yourself - no front presence. Why on earth are people backing a guy that can't make plays in a 3-4 defense - which is a defense that gives much more freedom to the SS? Losing Whitner does not create a hole, because Whitner is part of the hole on defense. I will miss his entertaining tweets though.

[DrDawkinstein]

My assumption is that these messages aren't unprovoked, in other words Bills fans are tweeting him telling him that he sucks etc.

 

Maybe one of the upcoming free agent players Merriman has already "spoken" to regarding the Bills is San Diego SS Eric Weddle.

 

Of course they are responses. These tweets are not simply whatever was in his head when he woke up. I was "friends" with him on FB for a while, but ended up unfriending him. Not because of anything he did or said, but because I didnt want to be a part of the "fan"base anymore that CONSTANTLY rags on the dude. I give him credit for ignoring as much as he does. Its a constant barrage of ignorant, classless messages. Did not make me proud to be a Bills fan, and certainly does not live up to the "Best Fans in the League" hype that WE pump into OURSELVES.

 

You said it yourself - no front presence. Why on earth are people backing a guy that can't make plays in a 3-4 defense - which is a defense that gives much more freedom to the SS? Losing Whitner does not create a hole, because Whitner is part of the hole on defense. I will miss his entertaining tweets though.

 

So you agree with me, and then disagree with me immediately?

 

You do know that "Front 7" means DLine and LBs only, right?

 

Yes, a SS in a 3-4 is "SUPPOSED" to have much more freedom to roam and make plays (like Polamalu). However, when there is no front 7 presence on the field, the Safeties are then forced to make the plays the Line and LBs SHOULD have been making. Which is partly why Whitner has so many tackles.

 

Polamalu is successful due in large part to how good Pitts Dline and LBs are. And the constant blitzing and pressure they put on QBs to get rid of the ball. All of that directly contributes to Polamalu being able to play the way he does. The Bills basically have the OPPOSITE of that.

Edited January 16, 2011 by DrDankenstein

[JPS]

Just doin' my part!

 

 

 

Says the guy with the ALWAYS exquisite margins!

 

I think if Whitner didn't so regularly get beat by tight ends, he'd have FAR fewer critics out there in Bills Nation. Unfortunately, he does get beat...a lot...and often in plain sight: for a touchdown for a long play on third down, etc. So the ire he absorbs--knee jerk though it may be--isn't necessarily unwarranted.

I hope he does go to a team where he only has reponsibility for the tight end instead of covering up for the worst front 7 in the league. He'll be viewed as a solid player and, once again, the Bills will be viewed as the laughingstock of the league for letting their best players walk.

 

Whitner's only problem is Twitter. And who gives a shite about Twitter....

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

OK Donte. You win. However, since you ripped off Ralph and the fans for the past five seasons, you're welcome back at a 10% cut in salary and no guaranteed money. However, your contract will be worth triple if you meet certain incentives.

Isn't that around what the Bills were reportedly offering him?

[JPS]

Of course they are responses. These tweets are not simply whatever was in his head when he woke up. I was "friends" with him on FB for a while, but ended up unfriending him. Not because of anything he did or said, but because I didnt want to be a part of the "fan"base anymore that CONSTANTLY rags on the dude. I give him credit for ignoring as much as he does. Its a constant barrage of ignorant, classless messages. Did not make me proud to be a Bills fan, and certainly does not live up to the "Best Fans in the League" hype that WE pump into OURSELVES.

 

 

 

So you agree with me, and then disagree with me immediately?

 

You do know that "Front 7" means DLine and LBs only, right?

 

Yes, a SS in a 3-4 is "SUPPOSED" to have much more freedom to roam and make plays (like Polamalu). However, when there is no front 7 presence on the field, the Safeties are then forced to make the plays the Line and LBs SHOULD have been making. Which is partly why Whitner has so many tackles.

 

Polamalu is successful due in large part to how good Pitts Dline and LBs are. And the constant blitzing and pressure they put on QBs to get rid of the ball. All of that directly contributes to Polamalu being able to play the way he does. The Bills basically have the OPPOSITE of that.

 

Thank you.

[Green Lightning]

Thank you. I am not a huge Whitner fan, but he is clearly a good player with a good work ethic. Is he one

of the top 2-3 safeties in the league? Probably not, but the team could do far worse. They should keep

him if his salary demands are to be paid like a good starting safety. If he insists on top 3 money, then they

have to make the business decision about whether to pay him that or not. But if they don't re-sign him,

they'll have yet another hole to fill on an already poor defense.

 

Regarding the obnoxious smart-a$$ put downs that a small number of people throw around at him and

others around here, it is absolutely shameful. These guys are all professional athletes and are very talented.

Even the very worst of them are still great athletes. Most of them work and play very hard. They don't deserve

the crap flung at them by a few around here. To be clear, I am not saying it is out of bounds to criticize a

player or coach or even to suggest that someone needs to be replaced, but some around here make Jerry

Sullivan sound like the Pope. To those people: sharpen your writing skills and formulate well-thought-out posts

with fair and balanced analyses rather than sarcastic rants that simply boil down to "he sucks because I said he does".

 

 

 

Well, there is more to it than just upgrading the position. Given that the Bills (and most teams) have a limit to what they are willing to spend for

salaries overall, the question is more what is the best way to optimize the value they get for the money they spend? Just as an example, let's say

that Whitner will sign for $5Mil/yr. I think that he is somewhat better than George Wilson, but would the Bills be better the spend that $5M on

another FA at another position (maybe a LB) and let Wilson take over the SS position? IMHO, it would be a bit of a downgrade at SS, but might

be a significantly smaller downgrade than the upgrade that they might be able to make at another position.

 

I'm with you on this Old Timer. Both points are well made. I wish TSW can make a point about a player's abilities and fit on a team without the hate and vitriol. Be passionate about our team without demonizing a player's personhood. I get mad every now and again and write something over the top (read Kelsay) but I regret it soon after. If a player needs to move on - fine, make your point but do it without the hate.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Green Lightning

[DrDawkinstein]

I hope he does go to a team where he only has reponsibility for the tight end instead of covering up for the worst front 7 in the league. He'll be viewed as a solid player and, once again, the Bills will be viewed as the laughingstock of the league for letting their best players walk.

 

Whitner's only problem is Twitter. And who gives a shite about Twitter....

 

 

Actually, Whitner's only problems are the Bills fans on twitter, and the Bills fans' reactions to his tweets.

 

Not his fault that most Bills fans are acting like 12 year old girls and having melt downs over innocuous tweets, as if he just dumped them for the homecoming dance...