Green Lightning Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Completely disagree. Brady is a product of Belichick, not the other way around. Look at how the Pats didnt even skip a beat a couple years back when Brady went down and they had to start Cassel. Brady has played about as well as you would want your QB to play, but he does not make Belichick. Belichick makes Brady good. I think you're in the minority on that. They did miss a beat - and the playoffs that year. Granted they were 11-5, but only had the Dolphins as competition in the AFC East. It was a team loaded with talent and FA's. But without Brady, there were a foot note. Take Brady out of the picture the last several years and Belicheat would be a solid winning coach with a great FA and owner to help. He uses the player's talents well. He's a great coach, but he's not a genius. I'll also point out that the glut of his assistants haven't panned out all that well. They would have if they had taken Brady with them. He is a football genius, and taking Brady away would hardly slow him down. I think in decades to come, he'll end up being regarded as possibly the best coach the game has ever seen. I'm only one person, but I think he's already the best ever. We'll see when Brady hangs them up.
truth on hold Posted January 14, 2011 Author Posted January 14, 2011 I think you're in the minority on that. They did miss a beat - and the playoffs that year. Granted they were 11-5, but only had the Dolphins as competition in the AFC East. It was a team loaded with talent and FA's. But without Brady, there were a foot note. Take Brady out of the picture the last several years and Belicheat would be a solid winning coach with a great FA and owner to help. He uses the player's talents well. He's a great coach, but he's not a genius. I'll also point out that the glut of his assistants haven't panned out all that well. They would have if they had taken Brady with them. We'll see when Brady hangs them up. But that was a total fluke ... I'd take 11-5 any year and take my chances of making the playoffs. People forget that Pats were mostly a running team during Brady's early years and Super Bowls. Basically he was an upgrade over Bledsoe because he didn't make mistakes, not because of his passing. It's only over the last few years with the arrival of Moss where he's become a force in the air.
Green Lightning Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 But that was a total fluke ... I'd take 11-5 any year and take my chances of making the playoffs. People forget that Pats were mostly a running team during Brady's early years and Super Bowls. Basically he was an upgrade over Bledsoe because he didn't make mistakes, not because of his passing. It's only over the last few years with the arrival of Moss where he's become a force in the air. So that speaks more to Brady's abilities. I stand on my opinion. Belichek is a great coach but Brady made him the best.
lets_go_bills Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Pretty much everyone would agree that Bill Belichick is the best coach in football. But who's #2? Seems like there's a lack of quality HCs and a gulf between Belichick and the rest. But I'd nominate Ravens HC John Harbaugh. He inherited a team with a bad record. Some stars on defense, yes, but virtually no offense. They drafted wisely with Flacco, Ngata and Rice. And made good FA moves like acquiring Boldin. And they can win now with offense too. Mike McCarthy in Green Bay I'd rate 3rd for the job they've done drafting and dealing with key injuries this season. Cool thread idea. I must disagree with your choice. Baltimore's success has, to me, been more about Newsome's incredible ability as a GM. But Harbaugh is still a great coach. It's a tough choice to make. Sean Payton has done some great things, so has Mike Smith. You also have to like the long tenures of success that Andy Reid and Jeff Fisher have had. But at the end of the day, my vote goes to Steeler head coach Mike Tomlin. He's got a ring. Edited January 14, 2011 by lets_go_bills
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Pretty much everyone would agree that Bill Belichick is the best coach in football. But who's #2? Seems like there's a lack of quality HCs and a gulf between Belichick and the rest. But I'd nominate Ravens HC John Harbaugh. He inherited a team with a bad record. Some stars on defense, yes, but virtually no offense. They drafted wisely with Flacco, Ngata and Rice. And made good FA moves like acquiring Boldin. And they can win now with offense too. Mike McCarthy in Green Bay I'd rate 3rd for the job they've done drafting and dealing with key injuries this season. I havent seen enough GB games to confidently assert this - but I hear, and from the few of watched, that MM might be worse then ol Dicky J at managing games (timeouts, challenges, clock management etc....)
sllib olaffub Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 That's funny that you put Bellechick so high - not that I don't agree, because I do think he and his staff are light years ahead of most of the rest of the NFL; but, I don't think there aren't people out there that couldn't do better. I remember when Indianapolis had Tony Dungy, and every playoff game against Bellechick was a tight one. He prepared his teams to a close level, although, I'd give the edge to Bellicheck. Green Bay does a great job, and I think they could hang with New England. I also think New Orleans' Sean Peyton could match wits with Bellechick. Let's see... Harbaugh is doing great with Baltimore. I think the best way to beat New England is to be tougher than them, and to out-physical them in play.
BuffOrange Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 But that was a total fluke ... I'd take 11-5 any year and take my chances of making the playoffs. People forget that Pats were mostly a running team during Brady's early years and Super Bowls. Basically he was an upgrade over Bledsoe because he didn't make mistakes, not because of his passing. It's only over the last few years with the arrival of Moss where he's become a force in the air. Perhaps people forget that because it's not true? 2001 was a garbage/fluke year - everyone knows that. But that was his first year. From '02 on they were a passing team.
Tortured Soul Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 I think you're in the minority on that. They did miss a beat - and the playoffs that year. Granted they were 11-5, but only had the Dolphins as competition in the AFC East. It was a team loaded with talent and FA's. But without Brady, there were a foot note. Take Brady out of the picture the last several years and Belicheat would be a solid winning coach with a great FA and owner to help. He uses the player's talents well. He's a great coach, but he's not a genius. I'll also point out that the glut of his assistants haven't panned out all that well. They would have if they had taken Brady with them. It's not like that was a team with an average quarterback. It was a seventh round pick starting for the first time. And he still won ten games. There's probably two dozen QBs in the league that Belichick could have taken deep into the playoffs that year. And for this thread, if I was starting an expansion team, I would pick Jim Harbaugh as my head coach.
Mr. WEO Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 It's not like that was a team with an average quarterback. It was a seventh round pick starting for the first time. And he still won ten games. There's probably two dozen QBs in the league that Belichick could have taken deep into the playoffs that year. And for this thread, if I was starting an expansion team, I would pick Jim Harbaugh as my head coach. Always find this amusing. Name them.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 I don't know, I think Tomlin is awesome. I realize the Steelers are a first rate organization, but they have not missed a beat with him, and, after a Super Bowl championship, his teams have been in the thick of things every year. This past off-season was about as bad as it can get for the Steelers, yet, they finish with the 2nd seed...and I am picking them to win the Super Bowl again... Also, what Mike Smith has done in Atlanta is real impressive, particularly when you consider whant mess he stepped in to. He has handled what could have been a very chaotic situation in Atlanta, and has only led the franchise to its' first back to back (to back) winning seasons. I will be curious to see how they do this weekend. Every time I have watched the game day coaching and the interviews, it seems to me Tomlin is a superstar. (and I strongly dislike the Steelers) He understands what leadership is all about. He won a bunch of games early in the season with no QB. Teams knew it coming in and they were still winning games. If you are looking to distinguish the difference between and average coach who just benefitted from inheritance, See Indy. Tomlin is the real deal.
Tortured Soul Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Always find this amusing. Name them. Rivers, Pennington, Warner, Brees, P Rodgers, Rodgers, Schaub, Romo, Ryan, E Manning, McNabb, Cutler, Campbell, Garrard, Favre, Flacco, Collins, Roethlisberger, Orton, Bulger, Hasselbeck Garcia and Young. Glad I could amuse you.
reddogblitz Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Rivers, Pennington, Warner, Brees, P Rodgers, Rodgers, Schaub, Romo, Ryan, E Manning, McNabb, Cutler, Campbell, Garrard, Favre, Flacco, Collins, Roethlisberger, Orton, Bulger, Hasselbeck Garcia and Young. Glad I could amuse you. I would add Ryan Fitzpatrick, Clausen, John Kitna, and Sam Bradford to that list. Brady is good, but it's the system that is most responsible for his success.
truth on hold Posted January 14, 2011 Author Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) So that speaks more to Brady's abilities. I stand on my opinion. Belichek is a great coach but Brady made him the best. They were a match made in heaven, I agree. Not taking anything away from Brady. He's a robot who makes super fast, unbiased decisions, and delivers the ball with great precision. And Bellichik is the perfect coach to program him. But it always takes two to tango ... Dungy had Peyton, Cowher had Big Ben, etc etc. Difference is I dont see those other guys doing the programming work on Brady that Bellichik did. Edited January 14, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack
Green Lightning Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 They were a match made in heaven, I agree. Not taking anything away from Brady. He's a robot who makes super fast, unbiased decisions, and delivers the ball with great precision. And Bellichik is the perfect coach to program him. But it always takes two to tango ... Dungy had Peyton, Cowher had Big Ben, etc etc. Difference is I dont see those other guys doing the programming work on Brady that Bellichik did. I get most of that. It still boils down to great coaches have great QB's and Brady's the best.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Completely disagree. Brady is a product of Belichick, not the other way around. Look at how the Pats didnt even skip a beat a couple years back when Brady went down and they had to start Cassel. Y'mean, when they didn't make the playoffs?
Buftex Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 He is a football genius, and taking Brady away would hardly slow him down. I think in decades to come, he'll end up being regarded as possibly the best coach the game has ever seen. I'm only one person, but I think he's already the best ever. It may sound crazy to say, but I think I can be convinced of this too... what people fail to mention, BB was a top shelf D-coordinater under Parcells (he may have been the MVPerson in SB 25), and appears to have an equal mastery of offensive football.
Jeffery Lester Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 I digress on this post. Back to Belicheck. I do not feel like he is the best head coach in football. He simply has the best player in football (maybe the greatest football player of all time) in Brady. Bill B. Had a career loosing record before the arrival of Tom Brady, and missed the playoffs with Cassel as his QB in the season Brady got hurt. If he is such a great coach, why all of the shady things (ie spygate, not shaking an opposing coachs hand after a loss). Will he make the HOF, yeah no doubt. But when was the last time the Patriots won a game on defense. Belicheck forte.
dpberr Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 I'd nominate Jeff Fisher. You don't stick around for nearly two decades as coach by being really bad at it.
Gugny Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 I'd nominate Jeff Fisher. You don't stick around for nearly two decades as coach by being really bad at it. You don't hang around for 17 years without a Super Bowl title unless you've got some serious dirt on the owner.
billsfan89 Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Seeing as Bill Belicheat should have been suspend from the league for ever for cheating systemically for 7+ years I can't count him as the leagues best coach. But I do think that Sean Payton and Mike Smith both have to get the nod as top coaches in the league. Seriously how good could Belicheat be if he had to cheat for 7 years? His whole career is a scam. Anyway I just think that if you look at the situations both Mike Smith and Sean Peyton inherited from their teams its a much more impressive coaching job thus far then Belicheat. Payton took a Saints team devastated without a home after Katrina and a team that didn't have a lot of talent football wise (3-13 the year he took over) and took them to the NFC title game the next year. Then he had two mediocre seasons but at 7-9 and 8-8 but the Saints were still improved from their pre Katrina state. Then last year 13-3 and a Super Bowl, this year 11-5 and a playoff appearance. A pretty solid record. Mike Smith took over a Falcons team that was 3-13 and coming off of the Mike Vick scandal and the fanbase was divided and the previous coach quit on the team. Smith took a rookie QB to an 11-5 record and a playoff apperance, then took the Falcons to their 1st back to back winning season with a 9-7 record although no playoffs, and this year the Falcons are 13-3 with the number one seed in the NFC, once again not too bad.
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