ExiledInIllinois Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 I have to ask...If Fox News and Rush Limbaugh are going to turn me into a killer, does that mean Keith Olbermann and MSNBC are going to turn me into a pansy? YES!
Offside Number 76 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Dude, there's a link and quote from the NYT article in the 10th post in this thread where someone who knew him from classes described the suspect as "quite liberal." WTF!? Yep. Acknowledged. Read up. You still owe me a quote where the sheriff blamed the Right.
NoSaint Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Yep. Acknowledged. Read up. You still owe me a quote where the sheriff blamed the Right. Honestly it was inferred from a long history that the sherriff has shown. As you admit, you are not familiar with his past and instead of arguing or calling people liars, it seems it would pay to read up a little. Im not saying it's right or wrong for him to say what he did, but I get the interpretation. It seems you are being very standoffish, especially for a new comer and I can't say I get it. As for the killer, I think we all need to tone done hate speech in our politics, but I don't think this is a left vs right, but very much a hate of the US political machine. Had he been in a conservative district I think it wouldve been a conservative victim. A crime of opportunity against the system not a crime of left vs right hate, or inflamed by palin, rush or anyone else. The guy thinks 9-11, the moon landing etc... Were government lies. That speaks to a whole different political issue. I guess that would render the sherriffs comment premature, and an aside to what actually motivated him. Heck, my comments may be proven just as premature should Sarah and rushs websites be bookmarked on his computer....
RkFast Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Yep. Acknowledged. Read up. You still owe me a quote where the sheriff blamed the Right. He did last night on Geraldo's show on Fox. He DIRECTLY called out Palin and Beck BY NAME. Edited January 10, 2011 by RkFast
NoSaint Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 He did last night on Geraldo's show on Fox. He DIRECTLY called out Palin and Beck BY NAME. This would be his continuing rhetoric that clouded his comments posted earlier. When every example of hate he has given for 3 years has been directed from right to left, it has implications even when he doesn't name someone. Until he can call both sides, his neutral statements will be hard to accept on a surface level. He is as devisive as the people he calls out, just a little more subtle because he isn't going for shock and ratings. Hopefully he learns that blaming the right only puts more targets out there and its totally unneeded right now.
Offside Number 76 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 He did last night on Geraldo's show on Fox. He DIRECTLY called out Palin and Beck BY NAME. I didn't see it--I certainly believe you--did he call out anyone else (specifically, from the other side) by name? If not, I'm pretty disappointed in him.
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Honestly it was inferred from a long history that the sherriff has shown. As you admit, you are not familiar with his past and instead of arguing or calling people liars, it seems it would pay to read up a little. Im not saying it's right or wrong for him to say what he did, but I get the interpretation. It seems you are being very standoffish, especially for a new comer and I can't say I get it. As for the killer, I think we all need to tone done hate speech in our politics, but I don't think this is a left vs right, but very much a hate of the US political machine. Had he been in a conservative district I think it wouldve been a conservative victim. A crime of opportunity against the system not a crime of left vs right hate, or inflamed by palin, rush or anyone else. The guy thinks 9-11, the moon landing etc... Were government lies. That speaks to a whole different political issue. I guess that would render the sherriffs comment premature, and an aside to what actually motivated him. Heck, my comments may be proven just as premature should Sarah and rushs websites be bookmarked on his computer.... You are right it is not a left vs. right problem... It is a RIGHT AND LEFT problem together. In this case, the right really needs to turn down its anti-government rhetoric. I am not given the left a free-pass... But anti-govt was a cornerstone of this nuts beliefs. There is plenty that the left does to make situations worse as noted by some of the perps ancillary beliefs. I firmly believe in this situation, the anti-gov't sentiment was the "tipping point" to violence. Disagree if you want to... But the anti-govt people tend to use some irresponsible means (tipping toward violence) while many (as with many states that enable the sentiment) create the ability to act out on the anti-gov't sentiment. He did last night on Geraldo's show on Fox. He DIRECTLY called out Palin and Beck BY NAME. Good. They need to be called out... Not necessarily for this case. What is wrong with that? They should use this case (and others that pertain to the left) to call out people doing harm. Palin and Beck are both doing harm. This would be his continuing rhetoric that clouded his comments posted earlier. When every example of hate he has given for 3 years has been directed from right to left, it has implications even when he doesn't name someone. Until he can call both sides, his neutral statements will be hard to accept on a surface level. He is as devisive as the people he calls out, just a little more subtle because he isn't going for shock and ratings. Hopefully he learns that blaming the right only puts more targets out there and its totally unneeded right now. Why should he call out both sides... It doesn't pertain to the left right now. The anti-government rhetoric is at the crux of this specific case. Now when class warfare that leads to violence... Sure the lfet can be called out.
Adam Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 It isn't the fault of the right, it was a complete lunatic. But the fact remains that this idiot country is becoming more and more radicalized and full of anger and hate by the day. Our country is horribly broken, and neither side wants to fix it.
DC Tom Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Our country is horribly broken, and neither side wants to fix it. That's because they broke it.
Adam Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 That's because they broke it. Yeah, but if the American people don't fix it themselves and keep looking to the politicians to do it, we are headed for the apocalypse
DC Tom Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Yeah, but if the American people don't fix it themselves and keep looking to the politicians to do it... That's how it got broke.
3rdnlng Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Yeah, but if the American people don't fix it themselves and keep looking to the politicians to do it, we are headed for the apocalypse The American people took a step towards fixing it in the last year or two by letting the politicians know in no uncertain terms that they weren't going to put up with their tax and spend proclivities. PBills can complain all he wants about the "tone" in American politics, but that tone, along with a little volume got the message across to most politicians. Remember when the leadership in Congress had to jam home Obamacare before the Sens & Reps went home in August? They were deathly afraid to let their lemmings hear the mood of their constituents in their Town Hall meetings.
NoSaint Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) You are right it is not a left vs. right problem... It is a RIGHT AND LEFT problem together. In this case, the right really needs to turn down its anti-government rhetoric. I am not given the left a free-pass... But anti-govt was a cornerstone of this nuts beliefs. There is plenty that the left does to make situations worse as noted by some of the perps ancillary beliefs. I firmly believe in this situation, the anti-gov't sentiment was the "tipping point" to violence. Disagree if you want to... But the anti-govt people tend to use some irresponsible means (tipping toward violence) while many (as with many states that enable the sentiment) create the ability to act out on the anti-gov't sentiment. Good. They need to be called out... Not necessarily for this case. What is wrong with that? They should use this case (and others that pertain to the left) to call out people doing harm. Palin and Beck are both doing harm. Why should he call out both sides... It doesn't pertain to the left right now. The anti-government rhetoric is at the crux of this specific case. Now when class warfare that leads to violence... Sure the lfet can be called out. because a major part of the issue is the staunch us vs them attitude of the left vs the right. if you go far enough left or right on the spectrum you will be fundamentally anti government, because a moderate government will fail you no matter what. that is in large part why political spectrums often are illustrated on a horseshoe type of diagram. the ends start to resemble each other more and more. this guy seems to have been in the confused, and living in an angry space between the two ends. if the sherriff made this about everyone coming together to make a change, i would support it. instead he made it about finding someone to blame and pointing fingers. at this point i dont care who hurled the first stone, or which came first the chicken or the egg, or even which had the latest offense..... we are stuck in a terrible cycle and running to say its the other guys fault is only perpetuating that cycle. it seems so much more then the culture of the left or the culture of the right -- it is the culture of america right now that is the issue. when republicans were in charge, it was bush is hitler, and a terrorist, and now its that obama is a communist and has a target on his back. both sides play the games, both sides need to stop, and fundamentally this guy fit neither side but was likely effected by the hatespeak coming from each over the last decade. neither side is going to say "oh its my fault, now that you mention it. let me quit and everything will be better." it will take both sides acknowledging that they have had a hand in it and cleaning it up together. we must look within on these issues. i know it sounds cheesy and cliche but it will need to start with people realizing there own role in propagating this cycle, from the whitehouse, to our own houses. reading this section of the board the last few days/weeks there is so much anger, and i just dont understand what its fixing for anyone. Edited January 11, 2011 by NoSaint
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 That's because they broke it. True. But we are all to blame... You and I included... NO matter how or who we voted for. We are all to blame.
Offside Number 76 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Frankly, the whole episode with the sheriff reminds me of Jon Stewart's warning to Begala and Carlson.
outsidethebox Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I remember a lot of hate directed at Bush from the left. Where was this call for an end to rhetoric then? I think BOTH sides need to cool it. They BOTH are guilty of perpetuating hate. There is no innocent side in this war of words between the left and right.
DC Tom Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I remember a lot of hate directed at Bush from the left. That was different, because no one got shot. Except Iraqis...which is why it's perfectly acceptable to put crosshairs over a picture of Bush, but not a map of the US.
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I remember a lot of hate directed at Bush from the left. Where was this call for an end to rhetoric then? I think BOTH sides need to cool it. They BOTH are guilty of perpetuating hate. There is no innocent side in this war of words between the left and right. Go back and look at my posts... Never advocated anything bad or about violence... Most of the left here the same. The worst it got was: Bush=Bad! I have always equated both sides as children... Yet, some children can't articulate themselves as well and they are the ones that bite the other children. The ones that bite seem to be the conservatives more. Notice the discourse, the name-calling, and the call to violence (even if joking). Now sure, both sides have their loons... Left feeds into the feeble elitists... The right feed into the podunk populace with the actual fire-power... Yeah, there is logical reason why the right HAS to turn down the rhetoric more... They are more dangerous, IMO, because the can incite that element I described... Same reason why they don't get the benefit of doubt with race issues. The right (especially the nationalistic right), are ALWAYS more dangerous. On that note... I am as left as they come... Yet, don't like what some did to our President when Bush was in office... Till this day I won't petrol up at Citgo because of what Chavez said about our President.
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 That was different, because no one got shot. Except Iraqis...which is why it's perfectly acceptable to put crosshairs over a picture of Bush, but not a map of the US. They left are feeble green wimps... If this dude in AZ actually leaned left... Wow, he broke from the feeble norm. The worst it would get, even with the crosshairs is that Baldwin's threatening to move to Canada. The left is strange... I fully expect them to be duped into conciliatory getstures by the right over this... Just like they were with the wars, health care, and now this rhetoric talk. No doubt some future event will swing the pendulum the other way and the right will totally lay waste to the left with a barrage of fiery rhetoric. And the feeble left will just sit there and accept it. The one thing the right has going for them is that they forget very easily and somehow sleep like a baby at night. Remember all the Clinton jokes... Then Palin comes around and family magically have to be immune... Go figure... Maybe the person who thinks "left" problem is that they look introspectively at themselves (at least speaking for myself) too much than a right thinking person. Again... The no quarter rule was laid down many years ago... There is no going back on the deal. Who really drew first blood? You solve that and you can create peace between the Jews and Pals. It is so silly and comical how people are acting...
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