Captain Caveman Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) My bad. I mistook you for someone who wasn't an ignorant, partisan moron who thinks only the other guys say offensive, inappropriate things that some lunatic could possibly take way out of context. Not that there is any evidence whatsoever that any such statements influenced the shooter. But go ahead and get your fill of examples Your example is a google search which basically brings back nothing? Well played. And also, I appreciate the insults. It paints a wonderful picture. But you would have done better calling me a whiny libtard. Edit: I see that there are some examples of people who identify themselves with the left making stupid comments throughout this search. So thanks for that. They're douchebags as well. Edited January 9, 2011 by Captain Caveman
Jim in Anchorage Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 lol What separatist movement? You mean the one that resulted in kidnappings and a few mailbox bombs in 1970, which was forty one years ago? Just fine, thanks for asking...lol But there are no more political divides in Canada? Your remark. What a garden of Eden.
Bronc24 Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 But there are no more political divides in Canada? Your remark. What a garden of Eden. Not saying there are not political divisions..I am saying that an incident like this would likely not be politicized. I don't know...this stuff doesn't happen here, for which I am glad. We don't take our politics this seriously, to be honest....and yes, I love living here...it is truly a garden of Eden...when it's not 30 below...
DC Tom Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Why has there not been one post mentioning all of the extremist Dems saying they wish Bush would have been shot? Because that wouldn't have been a tragedy. [/Hedd and Dave_in_Norfolk]
boyst Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 I've attempted to state that it's both sides that are taking their comments to the extreme. Both sides should tone down their completely polarized rhetoric. Did any of this actually serve as a motive for this nut? I don't know yet. However, I think the point remains, and this act just highlights the hatred that is being spewed, that there's a growing trend to polarize everything to the extremes. It'll always be this way until a 3rd party or 4th party is introduced. We are 10 yr old children and our parents are the government. We know just enough to have an opinion but only trust our parents. What they say is gold, even when they argue and both are wrong. When Daddy cheated with another man and Mommy was doing blow with the illegal Mexican housekeeper you still have to side with one of them because neither of them will let you settle with both. Neither one will accept the fact that they were both wrong and instead do whatever it takes to turn you against the other for being more wrong. The political machine loves this, it garners headlines. As we speak overthinking Democrats are using this to advance their beliefs; gun control, the dangers of Palin, how they must all band together, etc. While some Republicans have locked themselves in a closet, gone over old information and are ready to call out the Dems for hypocrisy. The Republicans will fire back with logic and somewhat well formed arguments and the Democrats will play the role as victim and garner pity. They will use this to say the same old story that "the man" is beating up on them and they must band together to change America. Yup, Change. That's how you know its BS.
NoSaint Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 That's what you would think would happen. However, as you can already ascertain from reading this thread... it won't. Was this guy nuts? I think that goes without saying. What normal, sane person shoots anyone in the head; let alone everyone he sees? Was this guy influenced by the highly polarized political rhetoric that we've all been exposed to on a 24/7/365 basis? Most likely. That's the problem though. The rhetoric in this country has become so polarized that it's reaching a point of no return. I asked this months ago and got exactly the answer expected... is there anything that Obama could do that the Republicans would like? Conversely, is there anything that Palin could do that the Democrats would like? The answer is more and more.. No. Both sides have been spewing hate and hyperbolic vitriol for so long that its going to be extremely difficult for anyone to tone it down and acknowledge the other side has a good idea. I give Obama credit for at least trying. He's tried to make overtures for civility. He's tried to meet with both party leaders. And in all cases it's' fallen on deaf ears - by both sides. I just wish more political leaders would follow his lead and stop painting the world as black and white, good and bad and tone down the extreme mis-characterization of everything. This country is weaker because of it. I think this is the most well written voicing of my opinions on the subject that I've read today - I tend to identify right of center, atleast a little bit as an early declaration, and my biggest frustration politically is the fact that so many people have an us versus them approach. Instead of being on opposite sides of a debate I'd much rather be on the side of patience logic and reason in an open conversation. Just because I prefer my approach doesn't mean yours might not be just as good, or because of something I don't understand it could be better. Just because I identify right, doesn't mean that the left is wrong on every issue. I miss moderates. I miss shades of grey, and a spectrum. Every increasing is the idea that there are two camps set up at opposite ends, and there each out to get the other as soon as you put your guard down. We politicize so many issues as life or death, and quite frankly, they don't all need to be. Part of negotiating is conceding, compromising and reaching consensus, not just beating your opponent into submission on every issue. I think we as a country have forgotten that and I fear that it will lead to far more bloodshed in the future. How long until we have a thread about how Sarah, rush, or some other right wing figure was targeted as revenge for this. The only thing Sarah killed with that poster was her political career, and we as the masses need to learn to accept that instead of politicizing as left versus right for days weeks and months to come. This was the work of an angry, and sick young man who was not working on the behalf of left or right.
DC Tom Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 It'll always be this way until a 3rd party or 4th party is introduced. We are 10 yr old children and our parents are the government. We know just enough to have an opinion but only trust our parents. What they say is gold, even when they argue and both are wrong. When Daddy cheated with another man and Mommy was doing blow with the illegal Mexican housekeeper you still have to side with one of them because neither of them will let you settle with both. Neither one will accept the fact that they were both wrong and instead do whatever it takes to turn you against the other for being more wrong. The political machine loves this, it garners headlines. As we speak overthinking Democrats are using this to advance their beliefs; gun control, the dangers of Palin, how they must all band together, etc. While some Republicans have locked themselves in a closet, gone over old information and are ready to call out the Dems for hypocrisy. The Republicans will fire back with logic and somewhat well formed arguments and the Democrats will play the role as victim and garner pity. They will use this to say the same old story that "the man" is beating up on them and they must band together to change America. Yup, Change. That's how you know its BS. The Republicans' biggest regret in all this is probably that the shooter wasn't an immigrant.
NoSaint Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 "if ballots don't work bullets will"- florida radio host joyce kaufman before a tea party rally. Sadly in recent times this would have been shunned. Now we have become so angry at the other guy that we can declare in open that they do not deserve to live because they do not agree with us. Do we take this even further and say there supporters need not live either? The slope has been so slippery and these people finding themselves on TV and in the news daily has only lead the average person to accept these statements, even make them ourselves. Both sides do it and I hope with the lack of a solution in sight, we do not slide further. Speech like this is very bad for our nation
Dan Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 I think this is the most well written voicing of my opinions on the subject that I've read today - I tend to identify right of center, atleast a little bit as an early declaration, and my biggest frustration politically is the fact that so many people have an us versus them approach. Instead of being on opposite sides of a debate I'd much rather be on the side of patience logic and reason in an open conversation. Just because I prefer my approach doesn't mean yours might not be just as good, or because of something I don't understand it could be better. Just because I identify right, doesn't mean that the left is wrong on every issue. I miss moderates. I miss shades of grey, and a spectrum. Every increasing is the idea that there are two camps set up at opposite ends, and there each out to get the other as soon as you put your guard down. We politicize so many issues as life or death, and quite frankly, they don't all need to be. Part of negotiating is conceding, compromising and reaching consensus, not just beating your opponent into submission on every issue. I think we as a country have forgotten that and I fear that it will lead to far more bloodshed in the future. How long until we have a thread about how Sarah, rush, or some other right wing figure was targeted as revenge for this. The only thing Sarah killed with that poster was her political career, and we as the masses need to learn to accept that instead of politicizing as left versus right for days weeks and months to come. This was the work of an angry, and sick young man who was not working on the behalf of left or right. Thank you and I completely agree with your post. I tend to identify left of center, but by no means does that mean the right doesn't have a lot of good ideas. I've yet to ever see one party or individual have all the right answers. Unfortunately, moderation, compromise and reason seem to be a lost commodity.
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Wow...that didnt take long. You DO realize that the "vitriol on hate radio" (translation: Rush and Beck...we know) PALES in comparison to what was written in political publications since...oh....the 1700s? Of course you dont..... HE GUNNED DOWN A NINE YEAR OLD GIRL....WHERE IS THE !@#$ING POLITICS IN THAT????????????????????????? What is your point about the 1700's? At one time baseball fans in the late 1800's were encouraged to attack the umpire with whatever means possible... To defend against "tyranny" that the umpire represented... I guess it started to get out of hand when people started bringing guns to the games... Umps doing the same... Then baseball and the culture had to change for what we have today. There was a lot of politics with the nine year girl... Well, at least in the perp's mind... The perp was railing aginst the constituents in the district at one time... Was the 9 year old a constituent? I bet she was. I will wait till the facts come out... But, IMO from what the perp has been reported to say (his beliefs)... EVERYTHING he did and who he killed was political. Thank you and I completely agree with your post. I tend to identify left of center, but by no means does that mean the right doesn't have a lot of good ideas. I've yet to ever see one party or individual have all the right answers. Unfortunately, moderation, compromise and reason seem to be a lost commodity. Me too... Yet, I am very socially conservative with some things! Edited January 9, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois
NoSaint Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 What is your point about the 1700's? At one time baseball fans in the late 1800's were encouraged to attack the umpire with what ever means possible... To defend against "tyranny" that the umpire represented... I guess it started to get out of hand when people started bring guuns to the games... Then baseball and the culture had to change for what we have today. There was a lot of politics with the nine year girl... Well, at least in the perp's mind... The perp was railing aginst the constituents in the district at one time... Was the 9 year old a constituent? I bet she was. I will wait till the facts come out... But, IMO from what the perp has been reported to say (his beliefs)... EVERYTHING he did and who he killed was political. Agreed it was political but to group him with average conservative or liberal americans is not fair.
boyst Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 The Republicans' biggest regret in all this is probably that the shooter wasn't an immigrant. Or, a woman getting an abortion while high on weed using an American flag to keep her 4 babies warm while she used rejection forms from housing loan lenders to cut her own wrists. In all seriousness, when I first saw the guy described as a "homegrown terrorist" I thought the Republicans would be gloating and just waiting to use this as a speaking point to limit more freedom, because we know it will be convenient now for the Democrats to want to jump on board this, too. Wanting to take away guns to protect themselves from the extremist Tea Party while the Republicans again look like the bad guy for protecting Constitution; something they do at their convenience when it suits them. It is sad that there are any regrets in this case that are not that this guy wasn't stopped sooner.
birdog1960 Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Sadly in recent times this would have been shunned. Now we have become so angry at the other guy that we can declare in open that they do not deserve to live because they do not agree with us. Do we take this even further and say there supporters need not live either? The slope has been so slippery and these people finding themselves on TV and in the news daily has only lead the average person to accept these statements, even make them ourselves. Both sides do it and I hope with the lack of a solution in sight, we do not slide further. Speech like this is very bad for our nation sadly, it appears kaufman is rather well liked in the teaparty. rep allen west offered her the chief of staff position on his new staff. how can this not be seen as extremist?
NoSaint Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 sadly, it appears kaufman is rather well liked in the teaparty. rep allen west offered her the chief of staff position on his new staff. how can this not be seen as extremist? I really do not know enough about kaufmans politics to qualify based on one statement. Isolated it is extremist, and frankly straight out crazy. In a broader sense it could have been a terrible lapse in judgement, misunderstood metaphor etc.... In the big picture it's sad that regardless of if it was a terrible joke or a serious statement - it's become way to commonplace.
birdog1960 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) I really do not know enough about kaufmans politics to qualify based on one statement. Isolated it is extremist, and frankly straight out crazy. In a broader sense it could have been a terrible lapse in judgement, misunderstood metaphor etc.... In the big picture it's sad that regardless of if it was a terrible joke or a serious statement - it's become way to commonplace. maybe this will give you a better idea kaufman in fairness it looks like she was threatened as well but that's hardly surprising given her rhetoric. not excusing it though. Edited January 10, 2011 by birdog1960
RkFast Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 What is your point about the 1700's? At one time baseball fans in the late 1800's were encouraged to attack the umpire with whatever means possible... To defend against "tyranny" that the umpire represented... I guess it started to get out of hand when people started bringing guns to the games... Umps doing the same... Then baseball and the culture had to change for what we have today. There was a lot of politics with the nine year girl... Well, at least in the perp's mind... The perp was railing aginst the constituents in the district at one time... Was the 9 year old a constituent? I bet she was. I will wait till the facts come out... But, IMO from what the perp has been reported to say (his beliefs)... EVERYTHING he did and who he killed was political. My point is that those who attempt to say this is part of a "new phenomenon" are completely full of **** and ignorant of the history of political discourse and commentary in this Country. ****, 150 years ago, Limbaugh would be considered a lightweight.
birdog1960 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 My point is that those who attempt to say this is part of a "new phenomenon" are completely full of **** and ignorant of the history of political discourse and commentary in this Country. ****, 150 years ago, Limbaugh would be considered a lightweight. i don't recall anyone calling this a new phenomenon nor calling limpbaugh a lightweight. everyone knows he's fat.
NoSaint Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 maybe this will give you a better idea kaufman in fairness it looks like she was threatened as well but that's hardly surprising given her rhetoric. not excusing it though. Honestly I'm not keyed in on one person or side for this topic, or especially this thread. Like I said there are so many on each side talking about how if you don't agree you are an idiot/waste of space/deserve to die.... I'll definitely peek at the material but finding yet another example isn't my goal as much as finding people who are actually trying to bridge the gap, from left or right.
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 i don't recall anyone calling this a new phenomenon nor calling limpbaugh a lightweight. everyone knows he's fat. BINGO! We have a winner! In fact this is a throwback to the past and ugly side of our history. And there is one side that would like to do nothing more than turn back to the clock... Especially pre-1929 for a do-over or mulligan.
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Honestly I'm not keyed in on one person or side for this topic, or especially this thread. Like I said there are so many on each side talking about how if you don't agree you are an idiot/waste of space/deserve to die.... I'll definitely peek at the material but finding yet another example isn't my goal as much as finding people who are actually trying to bridge the gap, from left or right. I agree... All I am saying is this was VERY politically motivated... UNLESS it comes to light that it was random... Even his collateral damage can be viewed politically motivated until proven otherwise. This is Congresswoman that has some violence against her in the past (pertaining to her vote on the health bill). Maybe the guy was left of center off of the strip...
Recommended Posts