Beerball Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 I never understood what there was about the guy to 'believe'. Did people just think the folks in Green Bay don't know how to evaluate talent? How often does a practice squad QB become a viable starter? Once every Kurt Warner or so.
KD in CA Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Once every Kurt Warner or so. I love when the nearest convenient example is from 17 years ago.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 personally im not ready to close the books on brohm like chan said after the game, brohm knew what he was doing mentally but just wasnt used to the speed of live play. most of the time he was doing a good job of making reads and getting the ball to the right place, for example in the opening drive where he had them marching down the field before johnson started waving it around like a cheap handbag and fumbled. you could tell he was struggling to adapt to full gamespeed cuz he got hit like three of four times before completing his throwing motion - after which he admittedly appeared to lose some composure before being eventually replaced by brown sure, he might never make it in the league, but its normally a lot harder to make the reads (mental skills) than fix a throwing timing issue (physical skills) so theres a decent chance with more playing time he would have been better prepared for the timing my question to chan would be why the heck didnt you give brohm a couple searies in the two blowouts that fitz started? on two different occassions he had the chance to give brohm some gametime conditions work in a game that was way out of reach and chan declined. why in the world would you not try to get your backup in those games? whatever added value fitz and the rest of the team by getting extra reps together is paled by exactly what we saw happen - a backup who struggled with game timing because he never got any looks. i mean if youre not gonna get some playing time for your backup in blowouts like that, when the hell ARE you gonna get him some time? i like chan but i really think he blew that situation Not so simple. The time to put in your backup is when there's a blowout--that YOU'RE winning. We never had that situation. Think about it. Training camp was a "QB competition" touted publically by Chan as being "very close", to start the season. There's a constant refrain of "Fitz is a good backup, but not good enough to start" running in the Buffalo media all season long. Brohm was a highly touted college prospect from a good college program. Part of Brohm may be thinking "who is this 7th round Harvard scrub?" Not intended as a dig on Brohm's character, it's only natural. Part of Brohm is certain to have been thinking "put me in coach - I could do better!" -- again natural part of being an elite, competitive athlete. You pull your starter when the team is down, and the team takes a message, no matter what you say. Pull your starter in these circs and Brohm reads a message Now you've got a controversy in your locker room. Not worth it. Once every Kurt Warner or so. When was Kurt ever on a practice squad? Personally I think GB liked Brohm or they wouldn't have kept him on the PS.
RealityCheck Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Not so simple. The time to put in your backup is when there's a blowout--that YOU'RE winning. We never had that situation. Think about it. Training camp was a "QB competition" touted publically by Chan as being "very close", to start the season. There's a constant refrain of "Fitz is a good backup, but not good enough to start" running in the Buffalo media all season long. Brohm was a highly touted college prospect from a good college program. Part of Brohm may be thinking "who is this 7th round Harvard scrub?" Not intended as a dig on Brohm's character, it's only natural. Part of Brohm is certain to have been thinking "put me in coach - I could do better!" -- again natural part of being an elite, competitive athlete. You pull your starter when the team is down, and the team takes a message, no matter what you say. Pull your starter in these circs and Brohm reads a message Now you've got a controversy in your locker room. Not worth it. When was Kurt ever on a practice squad? Personally I think GB liked Brohm or they wouldn't have kept him on the PS. The word "liked" is about as vague as it gets when you claim that a team "likes" a player.
Beerball Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 When was Kurt ever on a practice squad? Personally I think GB liked Brohm or they wouldn't have kept him on the PS. Undrafted in '94 and not on an NFL regular season roster until '98 is a much better story, don't you think?
Thunderstealer Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Brohm will be a longshot to make a roster next year. fixed
boyst Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 fixed Patriots 2011 roster. Belicheck will take a chance on him.
Albany,n.y. Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Patriots 2011 roster. Belicheck will take a chance on him. Only the 1st week we play them.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 The word "liked" is about as vague as it gets when you claim that a team "likes" a player. As a general concept, gotta agree with you. As a response to my post, help me out here - where do I claim that a team "likes" a player? Or help me understand what point you're wanting to make here?
3rdand12 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 The shuffling of players on the practice squad is something i am learning about this year. It is a storage place for players that show potential. That might be what GB liked about Brohm. And you cannot keep everyone nor wait forever for them to develop. Right place right time right scheme etc. One teams toss away is another teams fortune sometimes.
Albany,n.y. Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 The shuffling of players on the practice squad is something i am learning about this year. It is a storage place for players that show potential. That might be what GB liked about Brohm. And you cannot keep everyone nor wait forever for them to develop. Right place right time right scheme etc. One teams toss away is another teams fortune sometimes. Nobody waives a 2nd round pick in his 2nd season unless they don't care if he gets claimed. In other words the team thinks he's worthless or pretty close to it. Since you claim you're still learning, try to find another 2nd rounder waived early in his career and put on a practice squad who ended up doing anything in the NFL. The lesson is teams don't waive high profile guys after 1 season and develop them into anything on practice squads. The low profile guys who can fly under the radar are the practice squad success stories, not high picks who bust and get waived by the team who thinks he's got no NFL future. The reason Brohm was put on the practice squad was because GB's plan was to keep a 3rd QB as insurance against injury on its PS & it's always better to have your insurance policy be a guy who is familiar with the system. When Rodgers went down this year the Packers activated their insurance QB from the practice squad. Like Brohm, the Packers didn't really care if Harrell had been claimed in September, but since he knew the system from camp, he was better to keep around in case one of their 2 QBs went down. Sometimes it's not about potential, it's just convenient for the PS QB on a team that only keeps 2 QBs to know the system.
3rdand12 Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 The waive. i missed that bit. I was speaking in general. and out of turn i think. Thanks for the help
Nick the Greek Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 I think we all wanted him to be the next Jim Kelly.. Oh well
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Nobody waives a 2nd round pick in his 2nd season unless they don't care if he gets claimed. In other words the team thinks he's worthless or pretty close to it. Albany, that's been the party line on Brohm, GB must have thought he was worthless to have any risk of letting him go. So you have plenty of company. The key is what happened when the Bills made him an offer. GB offered to match. I don't think a team with aspirations of success has room to keep proven busts on their practice squad much less sign worthless players. The Bills of course.... I agree I can't think of any high-round draft QB who was put on the practice squad and ended up starting. Doesn't mean one doesn't exist, but it's gotta be rare. Here's the thing though: if an event is rare enough, one can't really draw useful conclusions about outcomes. Example: I put it to you that the odds of drafting a star NFL QB in the 6th round or later are about 1 in 50. As evidence, I can offer about 50 QB were drafted in the 6th or 7th round between 1998 and 2008 - a reasonable size data set. Of those 50, maybe 10 have "made it" in the NFL and arguably only 1 - Brady - is a star. So let's say there's about 1 in 5 odds of getting a QB who can play in the NFL and a 1 in 50 chance of getting a true "franchise guy". It's reasonable to conclude that a 6th round or later draft choice is long odds to be an NFL success based on the data available. It's so unheard of to put a 2nd round draft choice on the PS that it's probably "crazy like a fox", a team can get away with it. Statistically, if it's such a rare event, though, it's not very possible to draw conclusions from it. Does that make sense? I have not been impressed to date by Brian Brohm's play for the Bills. I think if we have aspirations of improvement, we better get an upgrade at backup. I'm willing to go by what he's shown or not shown, though, not just dis him out based on having been kept as the 3rd QB (but on the PS)
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Does the Qb's skill fit our offense? Someone thought Brohm did. But we are changing and moving forward. One of the things that bothered me pretty quckly and then pounded it's way home during the jets game was that Brian just could not adjust/change to the Jet blitz. At all. He got the deer in the headlight thing going. It got sad. JUST THROW IT! (sorry). We will get another backup and keep Levi. and he will be picked up next season. JUST THROW IT seems to be a bad answer to some of what we saw when he was in. It's as easy to criticize a QB for tossing 3 picks in his chance to shine* game as it is to watch what happened. *if your make it shine game comes in your first start, against one of the better defenses in the league with a couple very good corners, playing behind the 8th evolution of an offensive line, in the 16th game of the season, on a 4-11 team struggling to run the ball----perhaps expectations should be low.
Thunderstealer Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 I think we all wanted him to be the next Jim Kelly.. Oh well ' I wonder if San Diego would part with Rivers for our third overall. He'd be the next Jim Kelly. Then again I'm posting after working a midnight shift.
Albany,n.y. Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Albany, that's been the party line on Brohm, GB must have thought he was worthless to have any risk of letting him go. So you have plenty of company. The key is what happened when the Bills made him an offer. GB offered to match. I don't think a team with aspirations of success has room to keep proven busts on their practice squad much less sign worthless players. The Bills of course.... I agree I can't think of any high-round draft QB who was put on the practice squad and ended up starting. Doesn't mean one doesn't exist, but it's gotta be rare. Here's the thing though: if an event is rare enough, one can't really draw useful conclusions about outcomes. Example: I put it to you that the odds of drafting a star NFL QB in the 6th round or later are about 1 in 50. As evidence, I can offer about 50 QB were drafted in the 6th or 7th round between 1998 and 2008 - a reasonable size data set. Of those 50, maybe 10 have "made it" in the NFL and arguably only 1 - Brady - is a star. So let's say there's about 1 in 5 odds of getting a QB who can play in the NFL and a 1 in 50 chance of getting a true "franchise guy". It's reasonable to conclude that a 6th round or later draft choice is long odds to be an NFL success based on the data available. It's so unheard of to put a 2nd round draft choice on the PS that it's probably "crazy like a fox", a team can get away with it. Statistically, if it's such a rare event, though, it's not very possible to draw conclusions from it. Does that make sense? I have not been impressed to date by Brian Brohm's play for the Bills. I think if we have aspirations of improvement, we better get an upgrade at backup. I'm willing to go by what he's shown or not shown, though, not just dis him out based on having been kept as the 3rd QB (but on the PS) The flaw is that the guy has to be waived to get to the practice squad. When you waive a 2nd rounder, you expect someone to claim him. If you care about the player being on your team at all, you won't waive him. The only reason he even gets to the practice squad is because the other teams think he's trash & let him pass through waivers. I've explained this numerous times before, but here we go again. GB only kept 2 QBs on their roster when the Bills signed Brohm. He was the best insurance policy they had in case of a QB injury last November. So, they tried to match the offer in order to have the best insurance policy that late in the season because nobody else they could bring in would know their offense. It's no different than this year when they activated Graham Harrell after Rodger's concussion. They preferred the guy who knew their system. There are a lot of 3rd string QBs who are kept only because there's slim pickings among available 3rd stringers & it's better to have a guy who has been in your system. It's the same reason the Bills brought Brown back.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Before last weeks game i was one that wanted to see just what we had in Brian Brohm . After seeing the game i am no longer thinking that he can cut it in the NFL . He has had the entire year to learn the system coach Gailey has implemented & yet he couldn't get the reads fast enough to find any one down field , for cryin out loud at least Edwards found some one to dump the ball off to . I guess this is just an apology to all of you that i ragged on over this past year about giving Brohm a chance . Well he had his chance & didn't prove much to any one on the team or the fan base . So now i will move on - LET'S GIVE BROWN A CHANCE COME ON HE CAN'T SIT THE BENCH ALL THE TIME LET'S SEE WHAT HE'S GOT !! sorry got a little carried away !!! career backup.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 The flaw is that the guy has to be waived to get to the practice squad. When you waive a 2nd rounder, you expect someone to claim him. If you care about the player being on your team at all, you won't waive him. The only reason he even gets to the practice squad is because the other teams think he's trash & let him pass through waivers. I'm sorry, Albany, I got that and thought I acknowledged it as the "majority view". I propose an alternative viewpoint. I think it's so rare to cut a 2nd rounder that GB (correctly) thought everyone else would go "WTF? PASS!", figuring he must be trash. The purloined letter thing. It helps that other teams put their own value on a possible scout team QB who knows the system, rookie QB aren't hot commidities at the end of training camp I think if he were really just there because he knew the system, they would have cut him and brought in someone they thought would be better (either late round or UDFA) the following year -- the Belichek Fishing Scheme. But it's just what I think, no salesman will call. I'm not trying to persuade you or anything. My point is just I wouldn't pass judgement on a player just on that basis. On the basis of his play, and our own coaches evaluation, sure, judgement.
maryland-bills-fan Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I don't think that the Jests game tells us very much. The Jests are blitz happy and were doing a lot of unusualy things. They were also breaking through places that should have been secure a lot. Hard to say if anybody would have done better.
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