The Bills will go nowhere

[mattsox]

Just thinking of all the players that the Bills let leave for whatever reason. Pat Williams; Winfield; Spikes; Clements; Molds; etc.; etc! How can this organization expect the young players to get mentored. The Bills Orginization is just not committed to winning. Every player who becomes of any worth ends up with another organization. Now this Organization has purged itself of every player that was a leader and/or a game changer. Who is left on this roster to lead this young team and teach these young players how to be leaders? It just irks me because this team could have all the pieces now. What hope is there that anything will change???

 

Sounds about right. They keep spinning their wheels in the parking lot. Never keeping quality talent. This really is a sad organization. The only way I see this stopping is good drafting. They got to be dead on, on their picks and hope they become all-pros and keep these players. They only other way is to let the change purse loose and start out bidding other teams. But most players wanna go to winning organizations, which we obviously are not one of...

[xsoldier54]

Just thinking of all the players that the Bills let leave for whatever reason. Pat Williams; Winfield; Spikes; Clements; Molds; etc.; etc! How can this organization expect the young players to get mentored. The Bills Orginization is just not committed to winning. Every player who becomes of any worth ends up with another organization. Now this Organization has purged itself of every player that was a leader and/or a game changer. Who is left on this roster to lead this young team and teach these young players how to be leaders? It just irks me because this team could have all the pieces now. What hope is there that anything will change???

The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling! Woe is us!

[Cadidliac]

No big deal. Probably because you spelled "the" = thw. You are never alowed to post again!

Damn!! Sorry. It was about 5 a.m. when i posted this. Didn't even notice 'till now. A moderator must do it because it's not allowing me to. Those damn rookie restrictions. lol The way I look at it is that most will understand what I mean. Sorry for those of you who it bothers. Just making a point is all. If an Organization can't keep at least a few of their tallented free agents and add a few to boot then the wheels keep spinning to another losing season. I would just love to see the Bills learn from there mistakes. Not sure it will happen. Seeing is Billieving. Just another devoted Bills fan. Are we the inablers?

Edited December 30, 2010 by Cadidliac

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just thinking of all the players that the Bills let leave for whatever reason. Pat Williams; Winfield; Spikes; Clements; Molds; etc.; etc! How can this organization expect the young players to get mentored. The Bills Orginization is just not committed to winning. Every player who becomes of any worth ends up with another organization. Now this Organization has purged itself of every player that was a leader and/or a game changer. Who is left on this roster to lead this young team and teach these young players how to be leaders? It just irks me because this team could have all the pieces now. What hope is there that anything will change???

 

that is what coaches are for.

[DC Tom]

That hasn't worked for this team over the last decade. Not sure of this statement because most impact players do not go high in the draft. A lot of them do; but not most. The Bills did just fine from like '87-'94 or so and they were a winning team. This team should be back at that level by now seeing all the top 10 picks they have had. So, i'm not sure your reasoning is or has worked with this team. The real good organizations find those impact players out of the first round and so on. Take the guy Woodhead that the Pats picked up. The five foot seven RB that scored the winning TD last sunday against the Bills. That guy was let go by the Jets and is an impact player so far for the Pats. A team must be good on all sides of the ball (Drafting, F.A., etc.) in order to become and stay good. That guy has sick speed and is only a buck something. Any team could have picked up this guy. The Pats did. Evaluating tallent and knowing tallent the Bills org. does lack very badly.

 

You're new, so I'll be gentle:

 

I was being sarcastic, moron.

 

 

(Yes, for me, that was gentle. Ask around.)

[Mr_Blizzard]

Watching Winfield and Williams for the Vikes hurts, Clements not so much. As for the Bills leaders, I think that Fred Jackson is a great leader not sure about any others. I don't believe the Bills have an attitude problem, I do believe it is about overall talent level and experience. I guess that is to be expected when you are about to enter year 11 of a rebuilding program.

 

I believe that with the current coaching staff and GM, the Bills are headed in the right direction, but as been said many times before, the roster was in a shambles at the end of 2009, and it was going to take more than one off-season to rebuild this train-wreck.

 

I don't see us in the play-offs in 2011, but I would like to see a winning season. The AFC East is one of the toughest divisions in the league. Hopefully we have all the pieces in place by 2012.

[VADC Bills]

The problem is you are creating more holes to fill when there are already plenty of holes. That's what's been going on for years at One Bills Drive. We let Poz go and people will be complaining next year because we are weak at ILB and didn't have the draft picks to replace Poz. Remember we need another ILB for the defense...are we going to find two ILBs in the same offseason?

The real problem is when Poz is playing there is a hole. I view his position as one of the existing holes.

People are complaining about the ILB position now. Let's not throw away money at someone we know that can't fully play the position well. Depending on how aggressive Nix and Gailey want to be will determine if they can find more than one ILB.

Edited December 31, 2010 by VADC Bills

[Cadidliac]

You're new, so I'll be gentle:

 

I was being sarcastic, moron.

 

 

(Yes, for me, that was gentle. Ask around.)

Oh yes. That will be the first thing I will do is ask around. People like you call other people morons on line because they would get knuckled in a face to face. Ignorance is bliss. Just don't post things like that because it is hard to tell if you are serious or just a moron. I'm not new to the board either. I probably had more posts on this board before you were trying to be "sarcastic". Anyways I think you were being more fecetious anyway. Stop being an acrimonious weisenheimer.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Cadidliac

[3rdnlng]

Oh yes. That will be the first thing I will do is ask around. People like you call other people morons on line because they would get knuckled in a face to face. Ignorance is bliss. Just don't post things like that because it is hard to tell if you are serious or just a moron. I'm not new to the board either. I probably had more posts on this board before you were trying to be "sarcastic". Anyways I think you were being more fecetious anyway.

 

Be careful---next time he'll skip the K-Y.

[KD in CA]

This just shows ingnorance. So if Norwood makes the kick, we had all the pieces in place? Get some football knowledge.

 

Maybe we had all the pieces but the kicker that year.

[3rdand12]

Could it be that we are trying to do everything at once as a team? Changing schemes, player thinking and morale, while evaluating personnel. Heck Chan even changed the way we practiced.

I would bet a nickel that Ole Chan saw most all he wanted to of the players abilities and willingness to succeed this year, and was less than pleased with some and happy with a couple.

The Kelsay Thing will forever be a mystery to me.

It will be very very interesting what all occurs by the time of our first game next year.

I also am a newbster but save the k-y for the cup cakes

 

Maybe we had all the pieces but the kicker that year.

Those were the days! We were really something back then

[Spiderweb]

Oh yes. That will be the first thing I will do is ask around. People like you call other people morons on line because they would get knuckled in a face to face. Ignorance is bliss. Just don't post things like that because it is hard to tell if you are serious or just a moron. I'm not new to the board either. I probably had more posts on this board before you were trying to be "sarcastic". Anyways I think you were being more fecetious anyway. Stop being an acrimonious weisenheimer.

 

Pugilism is not a good thing. Nor is missing the obviously "polite sarcastic" initial response from DC. In essence, he was agreeing with you yet you clearly missed that.

 

To that note, most here would agree that while virtually all of our players are not elite, we do have key players who need to be retained/resigned or the rebuilding will never end. That we can all agree upon. Now, as for who stays, and who goes......

Edited December 31, 2010 by Spiderweb

[Cadidliac]

Maybe we had all the pieces but the kicker that year.

True story. Norwoods kick just before "wide right" was also sailing right. And not to mention the fact Norwood had never made a kick from that distance on grass before. I saw something on u tube that showed that the laces on the ball were not out? Anyway, I would say that was a lot to ask of Norwood under that kind of pressure. I blame that loss on the very poor tackling on the last TD drive the Giants had. Way too many 3rd downs converted. Never should have put Norwood in that position.

[GG]

Bills actually have done a decent job of letting players go who were not missed. The glaring exceptions were Winfield & Williams.

 

The issue with letting free agents go is that while it creates a hole that needs to be filled, Bills' bigger troubles over the decade was their inability to field solid players through the draft. So the team's dilemma is do they overpay for an average player knowing his contribution or do they take a crapshoot in the draft knowing their poor drafting history?

[Cadidliac]

Pugilism is not a good thing. Nor is missing the obviously "polite sarcastic" initial response from DC. In essence, he was agreeing with you yet you clearly missed that.

 

To that note, most here would agree that while virtually all of our players are not elite, we do have key players who need to be retained/resigned or the rebuilding will never end. That we can all agree upon. Now, as for who stays, and who goes......

Good point. It was like 5a.m. when I posted that. I guess i'm just not as sharp as I used to be on these boards. After going back to the initial response I see that. Too bad DC could not be as articulate as u when responding to my response. No pugilism is not a good thing nor is calling someone a moron. That IS what leads to fights in my back yard

Edited December 31, 2010 by Cadidliac

[Arkady Renko]

+1 . this is the bottom line. I believe all NFL owners want to make a profit obviously, but it is just harder with the Bills, as they generate relatively small revenue from ticket sales, stadium suites, advertising and merchandise. Buffalo is more suited to minor league franchises as a rule. Have low costs of operation is important with the Bills. Personally, I believe Ralph should loosen up the pocketbook and have one last go of it before he dies, but that is just me.

 

Wait until Kyle William's rookie contract is up or watch Shawne Merriman sign somewhere else. Just watch. It will keep happening....The bills are a team of draft choices and 2nd tier free agents.

 

Ralph is going to love 2011. he plays in dallas and New york i believe and gets HALF the gate for those games. Ralph is in a great spot. You can see why the other owners don't really like him. They give half the gate from their $100/ticket stadiums and Ralph gives them back half of that when they play the RWS poorhouse.

 

1. Kyle Williams was already extended
   
2. The visiting team does not get 50% of gate receipts
   

[RuntheDamnBall]

But if they let key players go, then they'll lose more games and get higher draft picks, allowing them to draft even keyer players, until they eventually win...which will suck because then they'll get lower draft picks and not be able to get any more key players.

 

So clearly, the key to success is letting your key players go. Let's start with Donte Whitner.

you had me at "keyer" players

[marsadale]

The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling! Woe is us!

I know....change your team allegiance every year. Problem solved

[RuntheDamnBall]

Bills actually have done a decent job of letting players go who were not missed. The glaring exceptions were Winfield & Williams.

I'd agree generally - they've let go of some players at the right time - or maximized return on them at the right time. I would add Fletcher and maybe Greer to your list, but the point is that they haven't really been guilty of this too often.

The issue with letting free agents go is that while it creates a hole that needs to be filled, Bills' bigger troubles over the decade was their inability to field solid players through the draft. So the team's dilemma is do they overpay for an average player knowing his contribution or do they take a crapshoot in the draft knowing their poor drafting history?

It's all about the first and second round picks this franchise has made. Think if just two of the following had turned out to be top-5 players at their position:

Mike Williams

JP Losman

John McCargo

James Hardy

Aaron Maybin

Willis McGahee

 

That's 2 RBs, your franchise LT or at least road-grader run-blocking RT, your pass-rushing DE/OLB, QB, DT, and tall possession receiver right there. Unless Maybin proves us all wrong and finds some steroids that fell off the truck, there are some core positions there where they just blew it on day one, twice at RB (and hopefully not a third time with Spiller).

 

And when the keepers are

Evans

Mckelvin

Kelsay

Parrish

Whitner

Poz

Wood

Levitre

Byrd

 

Maybe 3-4 of those guys are above replacement level at their position (probably some major disagreement about which ones, but the main point is none of them are stars, certainly none top-5 at their position...yet anyway). These are all decent role players, but about half would fight for their own positions on another team.

 

The good news of course is how often they've hit on UDFAs like Greer, Peters, perhaps Nelson, Freddie. And they've done pretty well (I wouldn't argue great) on Day 2. If Bell bulks up some in the offseason and matures in year 4 maybe we can say they've done great.

 

If you can imagine the '09 draft with Oher or Orakpo as that first pick, it might have gone down as one of the Bills' best ever. Let's do it right this time.

[BillsVet]

The problem is you are creating more holes to fill when there are already plenty of holes. That's what's been going on for years at One Bills Drive. We let Poz go and people will be complaining next year because we are weak at ILB and didn't have the draft picks to replace Poz. Remember we need another ILB for the defense...are we going to find two ILBs in the same offseason?

 

It's a 4-11 team. How much worse can they get without a Whitner or Posluszny? The defense is already among the league's worst, ranking dead last in the NFL in rushing yards allowed with 160+ per and 29th in stopping teams on 3rd down.

 

Both players do their best, but their best is not enough. They need better pieces and must commit the resources to get players who impact games. Whitner and Posluszny are not on the same level with guys like Winfield, P. Williams, Fletcher, and Clements. At least those guys were a part of a core group who played on good defenses. Whitner and Posluszny have never played on a good defense. Never.

Edited December 31, 2010 by BillsVet