ShipUPride Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 On the surface, I think we would all agree that he is a stud inside. He is a playmaker, and always seems to be around the ball... However, isn't the main job of a 3-4 Nose Tackle to keep bodies off of the MLB's? While watching games, I am consistently seeing Williams being pushed to one side, usually the off play side which opens a huge hole in the center of the defense and allows a guard to get to the "second level". This is exactly what he is supposed to be preventing. Poz sucks, no doubt. But I am not so sure that Williams is as perfect as some of us like to think.
High Mark Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 We haven’t played a 34 since week 4 or 5. IMO he is a fit at 34 end not NT anwyays. Either way we seemed to be employing more of a 1 gap 34 when we were using it, which allows KW to get up field more. Bottom line is real players can play anywhere, and KW is a real player (unlike many on the team)
RealityCheck Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 On the surface, I think we would all agree that he is a stud inside. He is a playmaker, and always seems to be around the ball... However, isn't the main job of a 3-4 Nose Tackle to keep bodies off of the MLB's? While watching games, I am consistently seeing Williams being pushed to one side, usually the off play side which opens a huge hole in the center of the defense and allows a guard to get to the "second level". This is exactly what he is supposed to be preventing. Poz sucks, no doubt. But I am not so sure that Williams is as perfect as some of us like to think. I have to agree in that he is not perfect, but the real question you aren't asking is that when he is double teamed, what are the rest of the linemen doing? This is a team sport, and while I am also critical of Poz, I have to ask, with 3 other LBs on the field, why is it that we expect only him to make plays? As fans you still have to recognize that this is a team sport and we should expect quality at all positions. I am no Poz fan, but why isn't anyone posting about how terrible the other LBs are? When one man is doubled, the guy next to him has an opportunity to make a play. The real question is, where is our replacement for Stroud next season?
VADC Bills Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 (edited) I have to agree in that he is not perfect, but the real question you aren't asking is that when he is double teamed, what are the rest of the linemen doing? This is a team sport, and while I am also critical of Poz, I have to ask, with 3 other LBs on the field, why is it that we expect only him to make plays? As fans you still have to recognize that this is a team sport and we should expect quality at all positions. I am no Poz fan, but why isn't anyone posting about how terrible the other LBs are? When one man is doubled, the guy next to him has an opportunity to make a play. The real question is, where is our replacement for Stroud next season? I think Poz has garnered so much attention because so many bloggers have stated that Poz is our best linebacker, If only he had a great player playing next to him he would be great too. If our line was great, Poz would be great. Excuses, excuses. There seems to be general acknowledgement that our LB's are bad. The Poz bashers are just saying they all suck including Poz. Poz is a great demographic fit for the Buffalo community and has become a fan favorite, but on the field he doesn't compare to our second string lb's from the glory days. When people talk of Poz being good Carlton Bailey, Marvcus Patton, John Holecek are probably somewhere just shaking their heads. As good as KW has played this year I think the 4-3 is a better fit for him. Playing next to run stuffer or a true 2 gap DT would only make KW better and he is a good player now. I don't think he is best suited for the NT in a 3-4. Over the past years we have become so use to mediocrity that when we do get a good player, we elevate them to greatness when they truely aren't, they are just good. Edited December 29, 2010 by VADC Bills
Dorkington Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 He's got a motor, and he never gives up. But he's not big enough, skilled enough or fast enough to do any real damage in the league. He's a star on a team of failures. Meaning he's maybe an average player compared to the rest of the league.
Erik Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 He's got a motor, and he never gives up. But he's not big enough, skilled enough or fast enough to do any real damage in the league. He's a star on a team of failures. Meaning he's maybe an average player compared to the rest of the league. Sure. Let's cut him and see how long it takes Belichik to pick up the phone and call his agent.
Dorkington Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 Sure. Let's cut him and see how long it takes Belichik to pick up the phone and call his agent. Did I say cut him? He's a solid player. He's not a great player, not a pro bowler. But a solid player. I would rather we keep him, and pick up a another solid, or even better, a great tackle.
Bill from NYC Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 He's got a motor, and he never gives up. But he's not big enough, skilled enough or fast enough to do any real damage in the league. He's a star on a team of failures. Meaning he's maybe an average player compared to the rest of the league. I used to believe the above. This year, Williams convinced me that he is a very good player. He is strong, very quick, and knows where plays are going. Imagine what he could do in a 4-3 with a good DT next to him. I will never be sold on him as a nose tackle. He isn't that type of player. Even some huge guys such as Sam Adams or Pat Williams are not true nose tackles. But, Kyle is more than just a "plugger," or some other cliche that people use for white players (smart, lunch pail, etc.). He is a skilled defensive tackle that I would take on my team any day. Hats off to AKC, wherever you are. Every word you posted about the importance of defensive tackles was true.
Mickey Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 I have to agree in that he is not perfect, but the real question you aren't asking is that when he is double teamed, what are the rest of the linemen doing? This is a team sport, and while I am also critical of Poz, I have to ask, with 3 other LBs on the field, why is it that we expect only him to make plays? As fans you still have to recognize that this is a team sport and we should expect quality at all positions. I am no Poz fan, but why isn't anyone posting about how terrible the other LBs are? When one man is doubled, the guy next to him has an opportunity to make a play. The real question is, where is our replacement for Stroud next season? I think that Poz draws a lot of fire because of the expectation that he would be a playmaker, the kind of linebacker other teams scheme around. Whatever he may be, he isn't a playmaker. Williams may have weaknesses, no doubt he does. But he also makes some plays now and again. That is in such short supply with this defense that he sort of sticks out more than he would on teams with more talent. In this league, you have to stop the run and you have to be able to rush the passer. We can't do either. That has to mean we need more talent at DE, DT and at LB, especially OLB because that is where the sacks come from and those are the guys who stop the run. I would have thought Kelsay was a goner but then they extended him. I confess that I have no idea why on earth they did that.
RkFast Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 Did I say cut him? He's a solid player. He's not a great player, not a pro bowler. But a solid player. I would rather we keep him, and pick up a another solid, or even better, a great tackle. You have to understand.....in the mindset of the McDonald's/Madden generation youre either a pro bowler star....or worthless. There is no in-between.
Dorkington Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 I used to believe the above. This year, Williams convinced me that he is a very good player. He is strong, very quick, and knows where plays are going. Imagine what he could do in a 4-3 with a good DT next to him. I will never be sold on him as a nose tackle. He isn't that type of player. Even some huge guys such as Sam Adams or Pat Williams are not true nose tackles. But, Kyle is more than just a "plugger," or some other cliche that people use for white players (smart, lunch pail, etc.). He is a skilled defensive tackle that I would take on my team any day. Hats off to AKC, wherever you are. Every word you posted about the importance of defensive tackles was true. Actually, this isn't a bad idea either. Put a big stuffer, or another high motor next to him. I feel like he's not really enough to stuff the inside, on his own.
fridge Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 in the mindset of the McDonald's/Madden generation The McDonald's generation? I'm willing to bet that for the majority of your life (if not all), McDonald's has been the top restaraunt.
Ramius Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 I swear, some people form a single opinin of a player and then stick with that opinion no matter what gets done of the field. Every knock against KW in this (and other) threads, he's done this season. He's gotten to the QB. He's stuffed the run. He's blown plays up in the backfield countless times. He's chased down plays from behind. He's batted passes and created turnovers. He gets double teamed on almost every play. The guy is a terror on the field. So yes, Kyle Williams really is that good. Some of you are so caught up on an exact build for a position that you think that if someone isn't X tall or weighs Y pounds, he's not top-notch or can't/won't playat a high level. The guy is one of the top 5 DTs in the league, no matter what the pro-bowl popularity contest says. Give me 1 Kyle Williams-type player at each level on defense (DL, LB, DB) and you will have one of the best Ds in the league.
RealityCheck Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 The defenses that make it deep into the playoffs have at least 2 line players that require constant double attention, we have only one.
34-78-83 Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 He's a shoe in Pro bowler if this team has a better record. That's really all there is to it. All the not big enough or strong enough or fast enough has been debunked 10 times over by Kyle on the field all year long, and he's got very little help.
Bob in STL Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 He's got a motor, and he never gives up. But he's not big enough, skilled enough or fast enough to do any real damage in the league. He's a star on a team of failures. Meaning he's maybe an average player compared to the rest of the league. He is big enough and skilled enough. Do you evgen watch the games? He is by far way above "average", in fact he was dominant this season while playing with a weak supporting cast. He is one of the best DT's in the league. Pro Bowl or not. Is your life that harsh that you must always take such a negative position?
Dorkington Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 He is big enough and skilled enough. Do you evgen watch the games? He is by far way above "average", in fact he was dominant this season while playing with a weak supporting cast. He is one of the best DT's in the league. Pro Bowl or not. Is your life that harsh that you must always take such a negative position? How is average/solid = negative? I've watched at least 3/4 of the games this year. He makes some good plays sometimes. He also gets pushed around sometimes. He's not some guy who dominates the line every play. But his motor means he also makes some plays you wouldn't expect. I don't think he's an automatic shoe-in pro-bowler. I also don't think he should be cut, fired, traded, etc. My life is quite fabulous, actually.
....lybob Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 Williams is above average but NT isn't his best position - I think he'd be much better in a 4-3 defense with a Ted Washington immovable object type DT next to him- Carrington,Williams, Troup, Bowers might be a pretty good Dline- lots of ways to go on defense depending on a decision on 3-4 or 4-3.
High Mark Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 How is average/solid = negative? I've watched at least 3/4 of the games this year. He makes some good plays sometimes. He also gets pushed around sometimes. He's not some guy who dominates the line every play. But his motor means he also makes some plays you wouldn't expect. I don't think he's an automatic shoe-in pro-bowler. I also don't think he should be cut, fired, traded, etc. My life is quite fabulous, actually. KW played like an elite all pro this year. Outside of maybe Ngata and Suh, there wasn’t an interior DLman playing better this year. That puts him above all those PBers. Maybe you aren’t happy how he has gotten pushed around sometimes, but relative to all the other players in the league at his position, he played like a top 3 player, if not the best of the bunch.
AF88Bills Posted December 29, 2010 Posted December 29, 2010 He's got a motor, and he never gives up. But he's not big enough, skilled enough or fast enough to do any real damage in the league. He's a star on a team of failures. Meaning he's maybe an average player compared to the rest of the league. This goes to show how good he is...if he can stand out while absorbing double teams due to the lack of other threats on the Bills, how would he do on a team where teams can't focus on him because of other superstars. The fact that he plays for a losing, irrelevant BB team means he'll never get the recognition he deserves.
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